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Messages - cube

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1051
General Discussion / Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« on: January 01, 2015, 01:18:42 pm »
Thanks for the report.  I appreciate the transparency.  Looking forward to another impressive year ahead.

Well wishes to BM, Stan, toast and others in the team.  Have a happy new year!

1052
DAC PLAY / Re: [Announcement]BitShares PLAY Crowdfunding
« on: December 31, 2014, 06:40:10 pm »

If you are going to do a crowd sale it should be in BitCNY / BitUSD.   BTC is nice and liquid but is volatile and doesn't help the ecosystem nor help advertize the advantages of your base platform.

All of that said, I think you are much better off avoiding the crowd sale all together and returning all funds received.   From a regulatory perspective it is just too messy and adds unnecessary risk when we now have the option of funding via delegate pay.   In fact, from a regulatory perspective it would be wiser to launch a simple token like PTS and allocate 20% to you to sell as necessary to fund your operation and then upgrade. 

Delegate pay should also be a means to fund operation.

I do understand that BTC is a good crowd funding system because it can attract NEW money from OUTSIDE BTS which is much more than attempting to attract money from INSIDE BTS.   In fact raising money in BitUSD would probably result in them dumping all the funds raised for BTC so they can sell for CNY and fund operations.   So whether we do it or they do it, BTS must be dumped to invest in PLAY unless the developers of PLAY have incentive to hold BTS.

BM has highlighted the regulatory risks with crowd funding and it is wise to avoid it.  There are other ways to fund the project without getting into trouble with the law.

1053
Random Discussion / Re: This sucks....
« on: December 28, 2014, 05:24:03 pm »

Sorry.  This community is my home away from home.  I live in a state where most my old friends are far away and living different lives and my wife is sleeping.  I'll keep my complaining about the power of tiny, nearly invisible life forms eating away at my innards off this forum from now on mitao.  :P

On a good note, the fever seems like it has broken!

Hey pal, didn't hear from you.  No wonder I thought something is missing.

Get well soon.  But come in to chat if you are bored.

1054
General Discussion / Re: You guys don't understand devshares.
« on: December 28, 2014, 03:35:14 pm »
..
 +5%
10% AGS 10 % PTS and 80% BTS would make everyone (heavily invested in bts) happy.

I absolutely agree.

1055
General Discussion / Re: The end of POW approaches...
« on: December 26, 2014, 01:49:31 pm »

Sharedrops are given to the owners/customers of a competitor, not to the competitor. 
This is a valid concept that may or may not entice some of them away from the competitor.
(It hasn't really been tried yet except in some ancient discussion about DNS sharedropping on Namecoin users.)

In the case of DevShares, its intended customer base is DPOS developers and ecosystem partners, including those who may prefer the new PTS positioning as a "neutral" share drop target.  So naturally its sharedrop should be engineered to attract such customers wherever we can find them.  The only other airdroppable source of potential DPOS customers is PLAY and MUSIC.  I can see advantages to trying to motivate their developers to use the same test chain as well.  Standardization, cross-pollination of ideas, more testing on common code modules and continued code compatibility testing come to mind.

Many advantages, come to think of it.
  Hmmmm....

Now. That is thinking BIG.   +5%

1056
General Discussion / Re: You guys don't understand devshares.
« on: December 26, 2014, 10:48:37 am »
Cube ,  I'll leave this to you and all the other adults here .

I guess as a PR and media specialist , my concern for this matter is obviously moot . Since you're treat this like a debate instead of a PR issue .

You can always win an argument because sooner or later your counter party will lost the interest to argue any further . But you can't win back the public image in a long time no matter how hard you try .

I'm too invested in this so I tried very hard to serve BTS and the community as those companies I've served as a PR consultant before . But clearly there is nothing related to PR for me to do here . So , I guess I'll just have to divide my time to do something that people are actually interested in .

Amazing things will come . Stay tuned .

You are passionate about bts and its ideals, and you have been conveying your beloved subject to your friends and other community members.
It would be a pity and a great disservice to all, if the result of this thread is a loss of a passionate voice.

No. This should not be the outcome.  My attempt to highlight the given facts, in a manner as best I can, is not meant to be an argument for nor against the issues at hand.  The hope is that with these new facts, those affected would begin their internal self-reconciliation, and one day be able to accept them.  It is a pain to see people suffer from misunderstand because of a lack of information, or a misinterpretation of it. Let us do our part to resist misinformation.

You are a PR consultant and you are a great addition to bitshares.  I believe your skill and experiences are very much sought after here, and other crypto spheres.  Do continue giving your passionate and wonderful contributions. 

Cheers! :)

1057
General Discussion / Re: You guys don't understand devshares.
« on: December 26, 2014, 08:17:08 am »
The reporter needs to report the facts and not his interpretation nor assumptions of the facts given.


1. History : people (including you , Chinese , many other western members) thought 11.05 was the final snapshot for all I3 products .

There are _some_ people (Chinese and non-chinese) _assumed_ that 11.05 was the final snapshot.  There is absolutely no hard fact about a 'final' snapshot.  The assumption could come from a drafted proposal but it was cleared up in the official newsletter.

2. devshares drop on 12.14 , people automatically thought that means PTS sharedrop on "11.05" , BTS drop on 12.14 .

Again, _some_ people automatically _assumed_ (wrongly) sharedrop on 11/05.  I3 (or ex-I3) decided on 12 Dec snapshot for devshares.

3. Some western members finally figured out devshares was actually sharedrop on 12.14 instead of 11.05 though interaction with bytemaster.

Some 'misinformed' members _assumed_ 11.05 and discovered it is Dec 14 from BM.

4. A western member started to post sarcastic post about how PTS get all the juice after it was suppose to be dead after 11.05 .

No mentioning of western nor which origin of this member. The member mentioned about 'properly properly' which is a typical phase in the Chinese community.

5. People started to argue the value of devshares , was is worth all that ?

There are people who have questions and opinions about the value of devshares. They voiced their opinions.

6. People started to ask questions about the meaning of 11.05 snapshot , which was denied by Stan and he pointed out 11.05 is a communication error that made by translators and readers , not them .

Some people insisted they were informed 11.05 and I3 (or ex-I3) 'changed their mind'.  Stan realised there was a misunderstanding and asked for the source of the misunderstanding.

7. Western members starting to show how they read the exact same thing .

Some members started to expressed their own opinions after reading Stan's clarification article.

8. Toast jump in and start this thread and asked why you guys are so crazy about a worthless thing...

Toast cautioned people who place any expectation of value on devchain.  It is dangerous and they should not.

9. Stan added that 11.05 as "final" was not any official statement , the only official statement was the newsletter , anything other than that was just discussions .

Upon seeing the source of misunderstanding, Stan explained at length the source was a 'draft' and 'not a promise'.  He said the 'official document is the newsletter'.

10. People started to wonder , if 11.05 can be void , then what about the future ? will there be some product that can be understand as a I3 product which happens to have significant value and then tear the community apart again ? I think this is the real issue they're talking about here .

Some people after reading Stan's clarification was still not satisfied.  They insisted their views and opinions.  Some interpreted and insisted Stan's clarification as Stan's 'denial'.

11. I don't really have an opinion of my own , I'm just a reporter in this mess . I just merely pointed out all the facts involved , and the potential damage they could cause .

I think you are more than a reporter.  A large part given out is interpreted information.  Now, where does the damage lie?

Edit: More facts from Stan's clarification article (not that Stan is poor in communication, I am breaking it down just in case there are further 'wrong facts' reported.)

* In the SAME draft post quoted as source of misunderstanding, BM stated "News letter has replaced this".

* BTS got 20% in the first proposal (ie the same draft post quoted), not 100% like some have been trying to claim. I3 (ex-I3) tweaked the percentages to "just make them all the same".  So BTS received MORE THAN what was originally drafted or proposed.

* I3 (ex-I3) reserves the right to do what we think is best for the product we are releasing.
I believe (ie after MY OWN INTERPRETATION) that this applies to all future releases from I3 (ex-I3)

* float one or more proposals, listen to discussions, refine our position and formally post it.

This is the OFFICIAL procedure of how I3 (ex-I3) handles information release - ie OFFICIAL release is AFTER all discussions AND their own internally REFINED position.



1058
General Discussion / Re: You guys don't understand devshares.
« on: December 26, 2014, 07:56:03 am »
..
The confusion here is that Stan said "that thread can not represent anything anymore , it's replaced by the newsletter" .
Any thing mentioned in that thread and not ended up in the newsletter is merely a draft and thus not official .

There is no confusion here.  Stan has clarified the misunderstanding and made his stand clear. 

I have said before - "There is a difference between 'not knowing the fact' and 'the fact is there but mentally denies the fact'". 

1059
General Discussion / Re: PTS - the insane gift that keeps on giving!
« on: December 26, 2014, 07:37:22 am »
..
* The reason that 11/05 was going to be the last "official" (non-3rd party) snapshot is because there will be no future "official" snapshots. Neither Dan or Stan ever
..

To be precise, and to avoid further miscommunication,

"The reason that 11/05 was suggested/proposed/drafted going to be .. snapshot ...".  I3 (or ex-I3) eventually decided to go with Dec-14  snapshot for Devshare.

1060
General Discussion / Re: PTS - the insane gift that keeps on giving!
« on: December 25, 2014, 03:04:18 pm »

actually , many Chinese thought devshares snapshot is based on 11.05 snapshot , including me and many other people who are good at finding information . Many of them are still confused . We can't see a reaction now because many of them still don't know . And I'm not even sure what I
should tell them , because 11.05 was the final one , that was the cold hard social consensus when BTC38 delisted PTS .


The information was accurately released in www.bts.hk to the Chinese community. And it was re-affirmed in https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12628.msg166215#msg166215.

There is a difference between not knowing the fact and knowing the fact exists but mentally denies its existence.



It's like a no brainer , when BM say AGS/PTS/BTS snapshot at 12.14 , people will automatically come to the conclusion :
AGS uses 7.18 snapshot , BTS uses 12.14 snapshot , PTS uses 11.05 snapshot .

Why would people think DEV used 11.05 snapshot for PTS ? I don't think you need to ask that question after BTC38 delisted PTS after 11.05 , right ? I don't think you need to ask that question when people sold PTS at 2 CNY right after 11.05 , right ?

Are we all mistaken what's the true meaning of 11.05 snapshot ? Maybe , but if people like me are mistaken , how would you expect from the common users who know nothing about what's going behind the scene ?  Will we in the future see more statements like "I didn't mean that , you are mistaken ? "


BTC38, like many other exchanges, has to do what is best for their company's interests. The actions they take may not necessary be aligned with their customers' interests.  Bter, for instance, remains committed to provide a trading platform for PTS while  BTC38 decides to take a bet on trading bitCNY.

Quite sadly there are some Chinese who mistakenly assumed 11.05 as the 'last snapshot' and did not check the fact with I3.  They sold off their PTS holding right after 11.05.  This is an unfortunate event and I understand the pain of those involved.  However, I do not think I3 nor anyone should take the blame for this unfortunate event.


How many times can we endure to do changes after the facts like this ? 11.05 snapshot was the final one , at least before Alphabar made his case and changed the whole dynamic . But that doesn't mean the 11.05 was not intended to be the final one , because , let's face it , it did .

Personally , I don't really care the value of devshares , I don't think many people do . I don't really have an opinion what the dev's should do . I'm just telling you what people are gonna say .

Some Chinese have suffered from 'misinformation' or lack of information due to the language barrier.  And in a number of times while I visited the Chinese forum, there were  people who attempted to translate a few articles from the English section.  Good attempts. Some of the transactions were right while others were off.  When the translation is off, misunderstanding happens.

PTS and the recent multiple DAC mergers are but two of the many occasions where they were left wondering what the hell was happening.  I am with you on that - communication needs to improve.  BM and his team understand that, and they are working to enhance communication with the Chinese, and other local groups.

1061
General Discussion / Re: PTS - the insane gift that keeps on giving!
« on: December 25, 2014, 01:51:23 pm »

DVS has to be relaunched with a 100% sharedrop to BTS anyway, unless you want to see our market cap evaporate from the torrents of FUD the current distribution will generate in the Chinese community once they find out.

Anyway it's a natural right for a stakeholder in a DAC to demand that delegates they fund use only a testnet that was sharedropped to them, without any donations to third parties. If it becomes apparent that our delegates do not serve the stakeholders then our community will lose all credibility.

The Chinese community is informed and well aware of the Devshares distribution but they are not creating FUD.

There is much to learn from this thread.  When one does not get what he/she wants, the recipe to turn things into their favour is:

1) create lots of noise - claiming 'unfair,  'suffered', 'wronged'
2) create fear - not many are following the events, they are easy targets
3) create uncertainties - not many are following the events, they are easy targets
4) create sourness and actively make sure it spreads
5) rally those influenced to go against the established
6) create more noise
7) repeat step 1 to 7
8_) still not getting what you want? - make a demand
9) make a stronger demand
10) rally more people (get those influenced to go against the established)
11) repeat step 9 to 10
12) still not getting what you want?  - create a threat
13) make a stronger threat
14) make a even stronger threatening threat
15) rally more people (get those influenced to go against the established)
16) repeat step 13 to 15
17) more to be discovered.. stay tuned
18) repeat recipe until BM and/or Stan and/or the devs give in

BM wants to use bitshares as a tool to free people from politics.  An admirable goal but I am not sure how that can be achieved.


1062
你写错了 但是我没写错啊,bts.hk也没写错了
3i论坛上就是写的12月14日啊。这个时间你自己去查查有没有bts快照。根本没有吧。
所以我提出来为什么按照12月14日 来快照devshares有道理吧

老赵,

devshares是用12月14日快照。
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12491.msg164626#msg164626

1063
General Discussion / Re: [FYI] OFFLINE NEXT DAYS…
« on: December 23, 2014, 01:44:44 pm »
@cass,

You are a workaholic for sure.  And thanks for the many wonderful creations.  It has been a pleasure seeing your work.

@all
A time for giving.  A time for sharing.  Merry Chistmas!

1064
General Discussion / Re: PTS - the insane gift that keeps on giving!
« on: December 23, 2014, 01:40:38 pm »
Stan's losing his touch, I was expecting center aligned sentences, a few quotes and some choice memes.

I was expecting him to share his thoughts freely, in an objective and fair manner.  In his usual honest self, he just did. :)

1065
General Discussion / Re: New Blog Post - Join the BitShares Community!
« on: December 23, 2014, 02:38:56 am »

This is Bytemaster's Blog... not BitShares Blog.    I have an agenda that isn't "political" because my agenda doesn't involve politics.  Politics is verbal fighting/posturing over who to point a gun at.   This is clearly "non-political".

Well said!  Keep politics out.  Keep the BM's uniqueness.   +5%

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