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Messages - Thom

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1396
This is basically a poll, but in an open ended format. Any response is fine, links, whatever. Trying to distill the "essence" o.f BitShares according to this community of mostly true believers, but also newbies that found there way here.

Thanks for your input

1397
General Discussion / Re: Marketing Direction - Why not How or What...
« on: October 28, 2014, 05:10:02 am »
The concept of freedom is perhaps the most universal message. It's a call to individual action with moral and revolutionary undertones that work in our favor: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-concept-of-revolutionary-freedom/30071

Most people want security over freedom. Why not talk about financial security to the masses while financial freedom to the choir?

 +5% Sounds good to me!

1398
General Discussion / Re: Marketing Direction - Why not How or What...
« on: October 28, 2014, 02:34:49 am »
Try to list your ideology, your politics, in as positive terms as possible (what you are FOR, not AGAINST), as ONE reason and motivation for getting into your product. Now make a real effort to list as many radically OTHER reasons and motivations for getting into your product as possible. Finally try to express them all in the most beautiful, universal message.

That, I submit, is what great leaders do.

A beautiful, universal message, that's some good homework!

Something people here need to understand: a powerful, emotional message and product utility are not binary options. You need an emotional message to get the attention of average people. Once you've got their attention, impress them with awesome utility.

Yes!

+5% - definitely on board with the OP and the TED talk, which the above also reflects.

1399
I figured it was some esoteric relation to a turing machine. Just another buzz word with little to add over just saying "we're adding a scripting lanuage" to the client. It that statement is incorrect, pls explain the difference between "turing complete" scripting and just scripting.

Touring complete has more features. For example a scripting language without loops is not touring complete. By definition a script is said to be Turing complete if it can simulate any single-tape Turing machine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness

This is a nuance distinction, as in my experience the majority of scripting languages implement loops. Those you might name that don't are rather obscure and are not used for general programming tasks.

1400
General Discussion / Re: Marketing Direction - Why not How or What...
« on: October 27, 2014, 05:24:46 pm »
I am an empirical idealist. I have much greater appreciation and enthusiasm for BitShares knowing the primary motivation for it's creation and continued evolution is founded on principles I believe in.

But I also recognize I'm not one of the masses. Marketing to me is much different than to the masses.

I am also extremely grateful BM is so tuned into this forum and the BitShares community as there is a lot of wisdom expressed here.

I'm not a marketing expert but I think if BM doesn't get from this thread the need to provide a value proposition and utility for the masses (while sticking to the principles stated in his OP) he'll be doing the community a disservice by missing the wisdom expressed here.

Part of that wisdom was this, which I just finished watching (+5% matt):
Ted vid: "People buy what you believe not how you do it"
http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action#t-55892

In particular I see this balance being put to the test with VOTE. As great an opportunity as it is perceived to be and may actually be to bring widespread awareness and adoption of BitShares to the masses, the implementation of the VOTE DAC must not sacrifice or compromise the underlying principle of freedom from violence that voting in a statist society represents.

I personally choose to withhold my support of statism by refusing to participate in the voting process, not on principle alone but also based on the strong empirical evidence that it doesn't do anything to effect fundamental change and is highly manipulated and corrupt in so many ways. Just check out Bev Harris' "Blackbox Voting" documentary / organization for some of this evidence.

I'm NOT saying you should refrain from moving forward with the VOTE DAC and the California initiative, only to be very cautious as you do and don't loose sight of what you said in your OP.     

1401
General Discussion / Re: Marketing Direction - Why not How or What...
« on: October 27, 2014, 06:08:33 am »
Saying +5% doesn't even begin to convey how much I appreciate what you said here BM, and I'm with you all the way.

You had me back in April when I first heard you speak, and since then your words have continued to resonate this same, underlying spirit of the mission of freedom, financial as well as personal. I sincerely hope you will cling to this goal and persevere through the difficulties which will certainly come.

Thank you for your service and dedication to freedom.

1402
Forum features could be added to BTS as soon as the key graph is in place.   Assuming people are willing to pay their $0.02 to post ;)

Why reinvent the wheel and spend dev effort "adding forum features" to the client when there is plenty of forum software out there. I just don't see the merits of adding forum features vs. linking to some existing forum with say a p2p style (blockchain) DNS address as luckybit & I posted about above.

1403
I figured it was some esoteric relation to a turing machine. Just another buzz word with little to add over just saying "we're adding a scripting lanuage" to the client. It that statement is incorrect, pls explain the difference between "turing complete" scripting and just scripting.

1404
Been hearing this phrase turing complete mentioned lately, what does it mean?

1405
Maybe consider how a transaction fee system for forum posts could be utilised to improve the quality of the discussion? e.g.:
- a flat cost per length of post, covering system cost, but also encouraging stakeholders to make pertinent points where they feel this genuinely adds value to discussion
- an ability to like posts, and absorb some transaction cost from the poster, encouraging lower cost for more helpful posts
Some days ago I proposed in a hangout to have something like Stackexchange were people find answers to questions and the most helpful answer gets a "helpful answer" flag .. plus you can up and downvote individual alternative answers and and give credits to the people answering ..
you might either distribute "income" daily, weekly, monthley .. whatsoever .. and "pay"/"gift" those willing to help within that period accordingly ..

I thought about this a bit more.  I like it for paying people giving support answers.  I think paying for forum posts won't necessarily be good.  It will lower the amount of posts but it will also get some of the better posts as not everyone is willing to pay to post.  (without going into specific amounts/threshholds)

 +5%

1406
The forum itself doesn't belong on the blockchain, but the intriguing idea is the bundling of the BitShares client with access to this forum.

If our public keys were tied to our forum ID and access to the forum was only through the BTS client, the benefits described by the OP could be realized.

I proposed that idea months back. I think that is something they might have planned in the new interface.

I think it's a great idea, and it wouldn't take that much effort to accomplish. I also think MeTHoDx's idea of using a p2p address is excellent, which shows that BTS uses it's own inventions internally.

Even if all we did was remove this forum's DNS domain name and made it only accessible through the BTS client (thru a p2p registration) it would funnel more interest in the client, if nothing more than by the "hidden/special" but yet public access that would provide. People are curious and intrigued by mysteries.

Of course once p2p became popular and plugins / add ons or other tools are available to access p2p internet sites from their web browser the curtain would be drawn back so access would no longer be hidden. The use of BTS public keys as forum ID tokens could be done at any time.

If this idea were implemented the bitsharestalk.org URL could be redirected to a simple landing page that describes the BitShares ecosystem (including how to access the p2p forum) but "for more info" links to several other forums like Beyond Bitcoin and others.

1407
General Discussion / Re: Another Summary of the Early Oct-24-2014 Mumble
« on: October 25, 2014, 06:40:22 pm »
Quote
This https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1863.0
plus this agsexplorer.com

Should give you the power to compute the answer you seek.

From my forum reading, I assumed AGS was just a BTC address. With amencon's reply it sounds like AGS is an account somewhere you could check the balance of (b/c he said you might get 1000 AGS, which to me implies AGS is a unit of some type distinct from BTCs), but that doesn't make sense to me, as that account balance would be spent by I3 as it's put to use.

I'll check into the links you provided Stan, thanks for your reply.

1408
The forum itself doesn't belong on the blockchain, but the intriguing idea is the bundling of the BitShares client with access to this forum.

If our public keys were tied to our forum ID and access to the forum was only through the BTS client, the benefits described by the OP could be realized.

1409
General Discussion / Re: Another Summary of the Early Oct-24-2014 Mumble
« on: October 25, 2014, 04:44:30 pm »
When people say something like 10/10/80 or 7/3/7/3/80.  All that means is they are talking in terms of percentages of the resulting shares.  Your share count will stay the same, but others will be added. 

Anyway, I was just going to say thanks for doing this.  I think I caught the end of this and you were asking for someone to come up with an update.  Well I grumpily suggested you volunteer to do it !  And here we go.  Nice work.
Thanks gamey. I think your format is better in many respects b/c people can go into the recording at the time index you provide and get the info without editorial bias.

"percentages of resulting shares"? I just don't get it, that's why numbers are necessary. I see talk about % of market cap, market cap / by maximum shares possible and many many other parts of the whole picture, but nothing that says if I donated 3.5678337 BTC to AGS (prior | post 2/28) and the market cap (of BTSX or AGS ?) at the Nov 5th snapshot is ?.?Million, I will get ???.????? shares of BTS. Most savvy investors around here take all this for granted but it's complicated for newbies.

If I left out an important factor or included extra ones in that calculation people need to know what the exact, complete formula is.

There is no complete formula that can readily be written down.  You need to know how many AGS you have and can't go very easily go from BTC.  I thought I had formula right for PTS/AGS but my calculations were off.  There is a thread elsewhere on the subject which translates PTS/AGS to specific BTS numbers.  It is about 100 BTS per PTS etc.  However, since I don't know how many DNS I had etc even those #s don't do that much.

7/7/3/3/80 Would mean that with 100 shares in target sharedrop, there will be 5 groups each with a corresponding amount of shares. 3,3,7,7 and 80.

What? Why not? There is no reason I can think of why a formula can't be stated. If that is true someone from I3 needs to explain in very explicit terms what factors cannot be quantified. I'm no math whiz but this indeterminate answer for a math problem sounds fishy to me.

Your making progress through my fog, so stay with me. I finally understand the percentage string, it relates to the amount to be gifted or share-dropped as a distribution. That clears up the output side of the equation, but people that invested also want to understand how the number of shares is determined, the input side of the equation. In fact it's the input side that's more complicated and deserves an accounting.

1410
General Discussion / Re: Another Summary of the Early Oct-24-2014 Mumble
« on: October 25, 2014, 03:34:51 pm »


When people say something like 10/10/80 or 7/3/7/3/80.  All that means is they are talking in terms of percentages of the resulting shares.  Your share count will stay the same, but others will be added. 

Anyway, I was just going to say thanks for doing this.  I think I caught the end of this and you were asking for someone to come up with an update.  Well I grumpily suggested you volunteer to do it !  And here we go.  Nice work.
Thanks gamey. I think your format is better in many respects b/c people can go into the recording at the time index you provide and get the info without editorial bias.

"percentages of resulting shares"? I just don't get it, that's why numbers are necessary. I see talk about % of market cap, market cap / by maximum shares possible and many many other parts of the whole picture, but nothing that says if I donated 3.5678337 BTC to AGS (prior | post 2/28) and the market cap (of BTSX or AGS ?) at the Nov 5th snapshot is ?.?Million, I will get ???.????? shares of BTS. Most savvy investors around here take all this for granted but it's complicated for newbies.

If I left out an important factor or included extra ones in that calculation people need to know what the exact, complete formula is.

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