Quote from: trader on April 18, 2014, 03:47:39 pm

Quote from: BldSwtTrs on April 17, 2014, 07:46:51 pm

Quote from: sumantso on April 17, 2014, 12:21:12 pm

The biggest problem right now is the 28 Feb snapshot. As we get farther away from the date, it keeps looking worse (and is generating a lot of heartache amongst investors) and creating more pressure on Dan and co.

Yep, it really annoys me.

Having value trap in a black hole during an undetermined period of time was not part of the deal. Having value stuck is reeeeally annoying, especially in the cryptospace where things move very fast. If I didn't mind having my value be illiquid I would have buy more AGS, my portfolio was skewed toward PTS for a reason.

Is having your AGS being illiquid for 2-3 months really the end of the world? You know your returns are going to be huge once the product is released. The only thing Im annoyed about is that I didnt donate more.

What really annoys me is that we don't have 100 DACs deployed already occupying the top 100 slots at coinmarketcap.com.

It also annoys me that we don't have our own electric car and space launch companies and our own decentralized sovereign nation somewhere in international waters, perhaps conveniently located on the floor of the Pacific Ocean.

Having all that value trapped in bytemaster's head and only a tiny low-bandwidth output port:  The BitShares Industry.

Then there's that whole "change the world" agenda.   

Like I used to ask my parents from the back of the car... "Are we there yet?"

I'm with you Stan!  I'm truly excited for when this technology begins consuming the industries of physical goods & transportation - transposing them to a state of what they should be.

I saw this earlier today and sent all the PTS I had in there back to my wallet.  Not worth the risk!  Didn't have any issues getting out though like others are reporting.

Quote from: bytemaster on April 17, 2014, 01:07:58 am

Quote

I share in the concerns of taking on to much at once

This is why I am attempting to spin up independent developers / teams around various DACs.   BitShares Music has its own momentum now, as does DNS, Lotto, etc. 

So I think things will pay off in the months ahead... it just takes time to get this boat moving... more time than many would like.  But once we are up to speed it will be tough to stop us,

I'll wait a year for a solid product...though I do not think the cryptocommunity will.

Quote from: toast on April 17, 2014, 01:36:33 am

one more push, give us that XT with dpos testnet then go preach

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

amen.

If they have a solution for this based on sound economics then it may be applicable. 

I will look closer.  Bitcoin will have to move away from pow to survive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  "If it's not profitable, it's not sustainable."

I'll humbly present some very young thoughts - I'd appreciate any help in refining and thinking with me.  Dr. Evans - if you have any spare brainpower to apply to the economics of a decentralized, distributed, autonomous food production system; that would be an area I've struggled with for years and could use some adult supervision.

Much like the state of the financial industry, the food system is badly broken.  One of the things I've been pondering is the reasoning behind blockchain technology and how it might apply to growing and distributing food.  At the barest of bones the blockchain is: an unalterable running ledger of ownership.  Is this necessary for food production..?  I still don't know yet; my gut says to keep pursuing down this path of thinking while my brain is asking "is this engineering for the sake of engineering?" 

What do you think?

The blockchain technology, as I see it, provides for the construction of a decentralizing incentive structure.

 
I think you're right and I believe this may be applied best to a slightly less decentralized food production platform than I've been theorizing over the past couple of years,  i.e. the community farms you mentioned.  Where one can grow enough food to feed themselves/their family and also grow an excess they would be able to sell.  I think of this analogous to the role of POW miners in the crypto ecosystem.  (...how could DPOS be applied to food production?!) 

To help paint a quick reference picture:  The type of farm I envision though is not your average 'garden plot'; I think of farms evolving to clean room environments in the basements of buildings or as dedicated rooms within high rises - all autonomously controlled, robotically operated & [ideally] off-grid.  Delivering of goods could occur utilizing a network of UAVs, like quadcoptors, in which the distance from the location of growth to location of consumption is as minimal as viably possible.  For instance I have an 8'x8' room in my basement that used to be the 'coal room' back in the 30's.  I would be more than happy to point that volumetric footprint towards growing lettuce year round.  My wife and I would eat what we would need and sell the rest - but the problem that I believe needs to be solved is the autonomous distribution and assignment of ownership, to others, of the excess our system would grow.  Simply put, I don't have the time or desire to package the food, take it to a farmer's market, or make door-to-door drop offs.  Which leads to me to my next thought of how growing, purchasing, and distribution may all by related to each other:

Let's say one wants to be a farmer [analogous to a 'miner' for the crypto world].  The "token" she would be producing is lettuce.  This opens up a whole new emerging industry for embedded hardware hydroponic systems that would range in size from the consumption needs of a single person, to that of a family, to that of excess in order to profit on the food that isn't consumed; like mining rigs.  Perhaps a blockchain could be utilized as a ledger for every plant produced.  Each plant has an address, and therefore, documented public ownership (most likely future ownership) which would be kept track of on the chain.  If food were accounted for on a plant by plant basis, I believe food waste would be dramatically decreased (which is currently over 25% of all food grown).  The embedded hydroponic hardware system (which I've been calling personal home grow systems) would autonomously assign ownership of the plants (through the blockchain), grow, package, and deliver the food to the consumer.  In this case - maybe consumers would be able to place orders for food through some sort of decentralized exchange (a la an Amazon Fresh-like experience) and this would be recorded in the block chain.  Perhaps lettuce can be traded on a decentralized exchange (bitSharesX) through a cryptoasset, i.e. bitLETTUCE.   

In the world I am envisioning, there would be a mixture of at-home "single farms"--as you put it--and there could be a far larger, local "community farm" that would gain value from the data-points received from each single farm's monitoring equipment.  In this way, the entire ecosystem could quickly learn of any potential destructive force (diseases, pests...etc) that might undermine its stability and, much like the human immune system defends from unknown invaders, use the information gained from one member of the network to make the entire network more robust against that particular attack. 

Agreed completely of how you've articulated why this system makes sense from a theoretical perspective.  This is a big problem that needs to be solved in the next couple of decades.  I believe food production definitely has the potential to fall under the umbrella of "Johnston's Law", in which: Everything that can be decentralized, WILL be decentralized.

Super glad to see some discussion percolating over this topic - it's something I'm very passionate about.  I've been working in the decentralized autonomous food production space for a couple of years now and co-founded my first startup (called Future Tech Farm) on the basis of the question "What is the most efficient way to produce food?"  We believe, it's within your own living space.  Zero food miles with no physical labor or extensive knowledge of agriculture.  We've proposed the hypothesis of: what if people had 'personal home grow systems', like an appliance, that autonomously grows a certain percentage of one's fresh produce needs, year round.  What personal computing did for information technology in the 70's, we'd like to attempt do with agriculture. 

It would looks something like this: Each unit, outfitted with a sensory system, would collect data and allow for monitoring and control of the biometric variables (pH, water temps, C02 concentration, nutrient levels, air temps, daily light integral, etc).  All the data collected, would be stored on an open platform - allowing anyone else to review and/or analyze the data. 

I envision the world's food production system could inevitably be a 'single farm' that is completely decentralized through these units - all units upload data, learn from each other, and utilizing negative feedback loops; improve upon their own efficiency until humankind produces food at the pinnacle of what physics allow. (it's an extreme idealistic perspective, I know ;P)

The research we've conducted for this project is actually what led me to bitcoin and very shortly thereafter - bitshares.  This is why I'm here.  I don't know how blockchain technology would tie into decentralized food production, or if it's even necessary, but I'm here to learn as much as possible to potentially apply these ideas to the next paradigm shift in agriculture in the coming decades.

Thanks fuznuts, for initiating conversation!

http://www.moneyandtech.com/texas-bitcoin-conference-bitshares/