Hi,

 I'm trying to migrate my old wallet and as I understood I need the old chain for it (http://docs.bitshares.eu/bitshares/migration/legacy-blockchain.html)

I can't download it from the torrent (http://docs.bitshares.eu/_downloads/BitShares-0.9.3-full-blockchain.torrent)  it's stalled on 75%.

Could someone please seed it?

Thank you!

Like Bitcoin, the client should have developer keys with the ability to broadcast signed messages.

Right now AFAIK the market is stopped by Invictus pulling big orders and making depth go insufficient.  That obviously won't work once the market gets bigger.  So I'm thinking maybe we also need a developer key which can close a market, e.g. to shut down trading to mitigate a security exploit until a fix can be prepared, or in preparation for a hard fork.

We should allow delegates to revoke this developer key, so the delegates still ultimately have control if the developers use their privilege irresponsibly.

It sounds like a proper solution but considering that there are higher priority developments I would be happy with some basic solution. Eg. an announcements topic pinned where only devs can post.

I do believe that liquidity is the primary reason the BitUSD price is low... it is just too hard to take advantage of arb. opportunities this early in the experiment.

If that's the case then the solution is here:

maybe invest some btsx funds from invictus to buy bitUSD and not in BTSX.

I tried quite a few ways to buy BTSX for fiat and calculated the costs. Here are the cheapest and simplest I've found. Corrections and tips are welcome if you know better ways.

How to buy BTSX or BitUSD from the EU (EUR, GBP and other currencies)

The challenge is to find the cheapest and quickest option:

• International wire transfer takes long time and fees are high (conversion rates are bad and there is are hefty fix and/or % fees). Luckily you can use SEPA for Euro transfer within the EU. It's cheap and fast but your bank is likely to overcharge you for it (what a surprise).
  
• The exchanges where you can trade BTSX don't trade with EUR/GBP/etc or they don't have enough volumes in those currencies.
  
• you can only buy BTSX for BTC currently. It requires several steps of currency conversion: [GBP->]->EUR->BTC->BTSX . Each of these conversions cost money because of fees and spread (margin) on exchange rates.
  

Step 1. Get some bitcoins
(skip this step if you have BTC or you already know how to do it)

Option 1. - use your local exchange. Quickest but not always the be best. 

• UK: buying BTC with coinfloor.co.uk
  You can transfer GBP into coinfloor.co.uk directly, convert it to BTC and send it to the exchange which trades BTSX/BitUSD
  They have a £500 minimum deposit.
  They require identity verification but it was pretty straightforward and took 1 or 2 working days.
  The drawback is that their trading volumes are not great as of now. You  might not get the best rate but you also can be lucky and catch a good deal. (check it here: bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/GBP.html and here: bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/EUR.html)
  If you have your bitcoins this way proceed to Step 2. below.
  For alternatives see other options below.
   
• Germany: use kraken.com
    They have reasonably good trading volumes and you can transfer money there cheaply because they use a German bank (domestic transfer). It might be the best option for you but check the rates on other exchanges. I found anxbtc.com. usually has better rates for EUR:  bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/EUR.html
  If you have your bitcoins this way proceed to Step 2. below.
  If you find the difference in rates on kraken.com and an other exchange worth it then look for other options below.
   
• For other EU SEPA countries
  Your local exchange might not have enough volume for EUR/BTC. If you decide to use them and have your bitcoins this way then proceed to Step 2. below.
  I think alternative options might be better, see below. I didn't look properly which is the best, do your own research.
   

Option 2. - use an exchange which accepts deposits in EUR with SEPA 

• Register on an exchange where you can deposit EUR with SEPA
  The cheapest and fastest way to transfer EUR within the EU is using the SEPA payments. So look for exchanges which accept SEPA and have enough BTC on sale for EUR.
  I deposited only to kraken.com and anxbtc.com because they seem to be established and have reasonable trading volumes.
  The basic registration is easy and seamless on both.
  Note: You can use SEPA even if you have your money in a GBP or any other currency used in the EU. See later.
  
  
• Identity verification on the exchange
  To deposit in EUR all exchanges require identity checks. Depending on the exchange it takes usually 1-5 days
  The process is not too complicated, you need to upload photo of your ID (ID card, passport etc.) and a proof of address (utility bill, bank statement etc. addressed to your name).
  You will receive an email notification when the verification is complete .
  On anxbtc.com it took only 1 or 2 working days as I remember. On kraken.com it took me 5 working days (not sure, I did it long ago).
  
  
• Deposit money to the exchange
  Wait until your identity check is successful on the exchange! If you deposit to an unverified account then your fund might be locked or sent back to you and you lose transaction fees and time.
  You will find clear instructions on the exchange about the data needed for your SEPA transfer. Don't forget to put your unique code from the exchange into the reference field for the transfer!
   
  • (a.) If you have EUR on your bank account (directly deposit EUR to the exchange via SEPA.)
    You need to initiate a SEPA wire transfer using your online banking.
     
  • (b.) If you have GBP (convert to EUR first then deposit to the exchange via SEPA)
    Tried several ways, the best I've found is transferwise.com.
    The only issue that they are blocking a lot of bitcoin exchanges (including kraken.com!).
    anxbtc.com deposit account worked for me seamlessly. I think they regularly change their deposit account to play the system.
    Anyway, you can test the bank account with transferwise because they reject your transaction before taking your money when the recipient account is blocked (unlike currecyfair.com ... They took my money, converted to EUR then informed that they can't send to kraken.com).
    The nice thing with transferwise.com that they use a better exchange rate and lower SEPA fees (ca. 1EUR only) than your bank (Barclays charges you £15 for a SEPA transfer!).
     
  • (c.) Other than EUR/GBP
    You have multiple options here, you can convert money with your bank and initiate a SEPA transfer to an exchange which trades EUR/BTC. It might result in high costs (conversion and SEPA transfer).
    You can also convert your money to USD and send it directly to the exchange which trades with BTSX/BitUSD. That makes the registration/verification on the EUR/BTC exchange unnecessary. It takes longer and check the costs because it's usually pretty expensive .
    
    The best if you check that transferwise.com (or an alternative) is available in your country and convert/send the money using it.
    
     
• Buy BTC for your EUR/GBP
   Finally you can buy some BTC when you have your EUR or GBP available on your exchange account.
   The trading interface can be overwhelming for the first time if you used one. Don't be too scared, just observe the live order book for a while. You can get familiar placing a few smaller orders first, there is usually no fix fee.
   Don't rush, it always worth to check the market on other exchanges too (eg. using bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/EUR.html or bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/GBP.html
   If you are dealing with a small amount and you are on high volume exchange it usually doesn't make a huge difference anyway (assuming the market is not too volatile)
  

Option 2. Use bittylicious.com or localbitcoins.com - more expensive but almost instant
 With this option you basically buy bitcoins online with your fiat.
 I've only tried bittylicious.com and only from the UK. You can buy using bank transfer, creadit/debit card, cash, barclays pingit, RBS/Natwest PYC, paym.
 I've used bank transfer only because that's almost instant (if you can use faster payments) and offers the best rates among these options.

 The drawback is that the bitcoin rates offered are quite bad. You pay ca. 5% extra with bank transfer (it's a marketplace so it really depends on what is on offer)
 The process is pretty slim and user friendly, it's self explanatory from the site. It's a good option to get some quick bitcoins to start to play with.

Option 3. Use a bitcoin ATM - less practical but fun
 If you live in a city which has a bitcoin ATM then you can buy bitcoins there. Check it here: bitcoinatmmap.com
 The rate depends on the ATM I guess. I've tried only one and the rate wasn't too bad.
 The drawback that you have to go there and there are limits on cash transfers.
 The advantage it's anonymous apart from the sneaky camera installed on the ATM which I used.
 You can choose to transfer the bitcoins straight to the exchange account but it can be difficult because some exchanges operate with single use addresses. Perhaps it's better to deposit into one of your bitcoin wallet first then transfer to the exchange. Obviously you can skip the EUR/BTC exchange in this case, you can transfer directly to the one which trades with BTSX and/or BitUSD

Step 2. Transfer your BTC to an exchange where they trade BTSX and/or BitUSD
 bter.com and btc38.com seems to be the most liquid.
 I'm not sure about their reliability but you need to hold your funds only for a short time there while you buy BTSX or BitUsd (assuming there is enough supply of BTSX for the right price).
You will be able to trade both BTSX and BitUSD on BitShareX once you transfered you funds there so that you can choose to buy only one here. Check the BitShareX markets in the BitShareX client (see installation below).
 Both btc38.com and bter.com works (if you don't end up occidentally on the Chinese interface on btc38.com ) . They both have a 1% withdrawal fee on BTSX but you get a 1% bonus on BTC so end of the day it's almost free.  Trading is cheaper on btc38 (0.1% vs. 0.2%)
 (side note: Actually coinport.com trader interface was my favourite and they don't have any fees yet. But they are in beta only: frequent restarts and minimum liquidity, use them only with play money)


Step 3. Install BitshareX client, create an account and register it
 Here is a great tutorial how to do it: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Bitshares-x-how-to
 A good starter pack of links for more information: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2edvtk/rbitshares_faq_newcomers_please_read/

Step 4. Transfer your BTSX/BitUSD from the exchange to your wallet
 This is easy, instructions are on the exchange site. The transaction is almost instant, takes less then a minute, sometimes I received it in 5 seconds!
 Don't forget that most of the exchanges require a registered wallet (see above)

Step 5. Enjoy
 Well done. No more bank and exchange transfer nonsense. No more worries of losing your asset if your exchange get hacked or go bust. You can trade BTSX, BitUSD, BitBTC instantly for minimal fee on the decentralised exchange of BitShareX. More Bitshare assets are on the way for trade.
 If you want some cash or BTC some point you will need to transfer BitUSD, BTSX, BitBTC out to an exchange where you can convert to BTC, USD, EUR etc. But if everything goes well then you will be able to convert your bitUSD to cash directly sooner or later.[/list]

Quote from: kokojie on August 28, 2014, 07:41:45 pm

You don't decide what goes on in Bitcoin development neither, why treat BTSX differently? Bitcoin transaction fee has changed at least 5 times in the past, I didn't get to vote on any of those changes. It's because the community mostly trust the Dev team to make good decisions, if you can't trust the Devs to make good decisions, you should either stay away from the eco-system or if you like the concept too much, just fork it and start your own eco-system.

In my opinion, this attitude is what is holding the entire Crypto Currency  market  back.  If everyone can have some ability to have some say on all decisions being made, and if power isn't centralized in some beurocratic bottle necked "dev team", the first community that can do all that will take over the world, and make a LOT of money by co-operating the best, in about a year.

We need to find some way so large institutuions can feel like they can join, and play a part, without fearing that the 'dev team' will not be able to listen to what they want/need in order for them to get on board.

Indeed, these are the questions which I have in regards the long term future and I can't see an easy solution.

Democracy is painful, it's bureaucratic, it's slow, it's flawed because people don't care, sometimes they act like sheeps and sometimes they just can't make the hard but necessary decisions. But it's proved to be more efficient in a long run because of the mistakes what a centralised governance make sooner or later.
There is also a weird contradiction with a centralised decision making and DAC. The first word of DAC is Distributed. How much  company/system is distributed when the decision making is centralised? What would happen with BTSX (sorry for the morbid example) if a terrorist attack kills all the current decision makers? What would happen if the investors in the dev company go nuts? What would happen if the US legislation changes and decides that issuing digital assets is public offering therefore BTSX is illegal and they make it a criminal offense to work as dev on BitShareX?

In the other hand, I can vaguely recall some studies which say that in immature situations centralised governance is more efficient. See how big fail is to try to force democracy in Iraq or Afghanistan... And I see that trying to make BitShareX and the DAC toolkit governance decentralised in this embryonic state would paralyse it. Therefore I don't see this as super urgent matter for BTSX but for trust clear, transparent rules even in a centralised structure are important sooner than later.

What I believe that some kind of decentralised governance will be key at some point for long term success.

Anyway, I was wondering about that would it worth think about some form of  liquid democracy?

Hi,

 I have the client installed on my laptop (mac) and my desktop (Win7). The Win7 client shows an incorrect balance for both BTSX and bitUSD. I understood that's beta but I'm wondering is there a way to sync up the balance on my Win7? I've tried to re-download the chain but it didn't help.

Just out of curiosity: how is it possible? I thought that the transaction log is stored in the chain and the balances are calculated from it.  Is it just a bug in the balance calculation on the Windows client?

Here's the official page on PTS / AGS: http://bitshares.org/resources/ags-pts/

Community wiki page: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Getting_a_stake

There has been a few DACs now that honor PTS. Another one is LottoShares. The DNS / VOTE DAC snapshot of the PTS chain was also taken just a week ago at August 21 23:59:59 PM UTC.

Thank you! I will look into that. Basically I'm just trying to understand how big stake I buy with 1 BTSX...

Users can create new assets in BitSharesX but the price is steep to do so as they are encourged to be more serious assets. There is a platform called BitShares ME that intends to fill the user issued assets demand at a lower rate than BTSX.

My question was specifically about BTSX shares/assets and not about generic BitShareX assets.
Is there any way to issue new BTSX shares?
I'm asking because I've just seen the function in the client for the user created assets ("Issue new assets of an asset type you control.").

how did the 20 billion initial coins get allocated?

Great question, I was looking for the initial allocation too. Where did you find that 20 billion initial coin info? According to the market cap data (http://coinmarketcap.com/) there are only 1,999,992,536 coins.

1) Initial alloc. was 50% / 50% based on PTS and AGS holders. PTS (BitShares Protoshares) is a minable PoW coin and AGS is basically a donor list from the AngelShares crowdfunding campaign. One is liquid and the other is illiquid.

Thanks for it, great and simple explanation of PTS/AGS, i was confused with it.

How many coins has been distributed 50%-50% ?
Have been any assets allocated/issued apart from those for the PTS/AGS?
Initial allocation via PTS/AGS just raises more questions. Is there any info about how the PTS/AGS has been initially allocated?

Is there any way to issue new BTSX assets? If so then who could do that and how?

Thanks!