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Messages - j.galt

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Stakeholder Proposals / Re: [Poll] BSIP42: adjust price feed dynamically
« on: September 22, 2018, 03:19:17 pm »
Your proposal is far better for the community and for transparency RoelandP.

The "fast track" of bsip42 and now seeing signs of push for BitUSD for a similar scheme indicates there is an agenda at play here which goes beyond simply wanting a tighter peg. Although I haven't seen much, it has been mentioned to eliminate the global settlement price, so Thul3's comments about that may right.

Are we witnessing the "controlled demolition" of this ecosystem? When major shareholders propose price feed manipulation (i.e. bsip42) and other proxies and the committee don't jump in to stop it or at least demand a more careful plan to conduct testing, I have to ask.

Making adjustments to increase a derivative's peg "tightness" is one thing, removing global settlement is another.

BTW, when will this bsip42 experiment be over? When will we see a report or something written up about this? When will we have seen enough variations in the market to know the PID parameters are optimized for all market conditions?

Or, are witnesses endlessly supposed to keep making adjustments to the PID settings? That's hardly an improved feed algorithm.

I sure hope bsip42 is heavily discussed at Bitfest and a solid plan is considered to prevent a catastrophe.

Stakeholder Proposals / Re: [Witness Proposal] gdex-witnness
« on: September 16, 2018, 03:51:59 pm »
Stake holders are free to unvote the witnesses that didn't respond in time.

Shareholders are always free to vote witnesses out based on whatever criteria they choose, but aren't you getting "a bit" ahead of yourself to even suggest this now?

What do you mean by that statement anyway? Respond "in time" for what? The bsip was vague in terms of limits and there were no time limits in it. It didn't even mandate witnesses participate in the experimentation. You wrote the bsip you know that. Bsip 42 is an experiment, primarily for only 1 asset initially. Suggesting shareholders vote out witnesses based on price feeds during a period of experimentation sounds dramatic and rather aggressive to my ears. That doesn't exactly foster unity in the community, and unity is something we can never have enough of.

It would be more conservative and wiser to wait for published results of these experiments before people vote witnesses out based on any criteria during a period of experimentation. That's what I meant when I said this is being "rushed" into production.

Your bsip was actually more comprehensively written than others, but for the impact such changes might cause there was almost no guidance on how experimentation would be conducted. It is lucky the market has been relatively stable or things could have gone badly. It's also too early to tell if a single set of feedback settings will work for all market conditions.

No reason to rush this. Applying a PID algorithm to help peg derivatives is interesting and may provide a "tighter" peg, so I'm all for seeing how it will work. I do like the "Constant voting evaluation" in bsip 42, and for this type of experimentation that provision is very important. But let's not impose any requirements on witnesses or hold them accountable until A) we've seen enough market variations to evaluate the stability of a PID approach, and B) some type of report or description is published that outlines safe limits for PID feedback so as to avoid widening the price away from the peg.

I've seen the damage done to robotic joints due to errors in PID control settings, and far more is at stake in a financial system. No, it's way too early to vote witnesses out or sanction them based on anything related to bsip 42.

Stakeholder Proposals / Re: [Witness Proposal] gdex-witnness
« on: September 15, 2018, 01:48:05 pm »
Has a consensus emerged yet to set parameters for this PID algorithm? What results have been published? Does the author of BSIP42 expect all 27 / 29 witnesses to code their own versions of this or are open source versions available to witnesses they can tweak?

All PID process control algorithms rely on getting the feedback tuned in for the specific characteristics (inherent latency) of the system being controlled. That latency almost certainly is affected by the feed sources used. I suspect it is also affected by network latency, and we know that varies widely between western and far eastern API nodes.

If the point of BSIP42 is a tighter peg and not just a subsidy for traders, from what I observed the "experimentation" which BSIP42 allowed for (based on what I saw on Telegram it was treated like an absolute and urgent requirement on par with security patches!) was rushed into production without much planning and coordination at all. From the time BSIP42 was approved to when some were practically demanding witnesses to produce "conforming" CNY feeds was only a few days.

If a large percentage of witness participation in this CNY PID price feed experimentation was necessary it should have been announced in the BTS Witness Alerts Telegram channel. 

If the goal is a tighter CNY peg it seems to me a common reference implementation we can all tweak based on our preferred price sources used in various places around the globe would be a necessary starting point. Without that (for example if every witness or most of them wrote their own PID script) it will take longer for all witnesses to get on same page as they optimize their script's parameters and feedback to be in harmony with other witnesses and the median feed price.

I found it troubling this experimentation as conducted could trigger a black swan event, and this wasn't discussed much. In general I have zero objections to refine and improve our feed algorithms, but we shouldn't rush into it as it seems we're doing.

Water under the bridge so they say if a consensus for a new CNY feed algorithm has now been determined. Has it? If so, now all the non-coding witnesses need is a report or program they can tweak and they too can join in. Even if it has for the current market conditions, that doesn't mean all hell can't break loose if the market volatility gets to wild.

Abit's concern for feeds too far away from the median that leads to an abrupt (and catastrophic) price changes was always a potential risk with how BSIP42 was conducted. Fortunately that didn't happen, even with several witnesses not using (or not having the PID tuned well) a PID feed algorithm. The median / indirect manor feed prices are published works well. Outliers could be a problem if the market became more volatile though. However the parameters used to control the PID feedback set in a non-volatile market may not be tuned properly for changes in a volatile market, and if feedback is too sensitive could lead to some vary wide price swings.


As abit and oxarbitrage indicated, escrow is very important to protect the dac and assure shareholders you are considerate of what's best for ecosystem are being responsible. IMO it is a vital element.

Not decided if I would support this wp or not.

First let say I greatly appreciate the UI / UX design approach you bring with this wp. There are only a few in this community (and in cryto projects in general) that have discussed the importance of the up-front design work to reach an audience, specifically the user focused requirements gathering and audience identification that all subsequent work should be based on. I truly hope the community is now ready to consider the merits and benefits of such work.

In some respects this wp may be exactly what is required to motivate the community to see the benefits of such a design approach. Separating the cost of design from implementation is also a good aspect of this approach, so the community can better understand the cost to produce a quality UI / UX. It also provides an avenue to improve the work of the existing UI team lead by Bill Butler, who is most familiar with the code base, including its strengths and weaknesses.

User requirements gathering and coding are distinctly different disciplines. Although there is clearly overlap there is a severe lack of systematic and comprehensive gathering of user requirements, which translates to poor metrics to evaluate and measure the quality of the resulting UI implementation and thus the performance of the UI coders.

My reservations about this wp come in 2 areas. 1- deliverables, and 2- excess funds.

Since this wp is all about design, it needs to include a more precise definition of the deliverables, which will serve as inputs to the UI coders. It should do so in a "balanced" approach that considers the current state of the codebase and provides a useful migration path to achieve the design goals while recognizing the starting point of existing codebase. It must not be assumed a total rewrite from scratch and scraping of the existing codebase is the most efficient way to achieve the design goals. This requires cooperation and support of SVK and Bill Butler's UI coding team. Likewise if a total rewrite would be a more efficient path, the case for that must be made clear to everyone. That case cannot be made until the conclusion of the design however.

I also have reservations about deliverables being biased towards the gaming / gambling / sports markets and not a generalized DEx.This wp needs to address this issue to assure supporters will not simply be providing a subsidy to another project, namely scorum.

Excess Funds   
I have reservations about where the excess funds will go. I do not want them to be funneled to scorum or any other project than BitShares. It is my desire that other projects will benefit substantially from this wp in many ways, but those benefits should be indirect rather than direct.

Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Witness Report for Verbaltech2
« on: June 19, 2018, 06:05:52 pm »
Thom doesn't post here very often now, but he writes a monthly report every month you can find on steemit at:

You can also find him in Roeland P's witness log here:

Technical Support / Re: Does the X of BitSharesX stand for eXperimental?
« on: September 21, 2014, 03:25:19 am »
The X in BitSharesX stands for eXchange. BitSharesX is live, it's the final chain. If there is to be any related offspring there will be a snap-shot from itself.

ProtoShares were renamed to PTS due to trademark issues, it's the same thing.

So PTS is or isn't the same thing as BTSX?

PTS was the first crypto launched by BM and I3, it is a more traditional "bitcoin-clone" type of currency but with a novel mining algorithm called Momentum that was meant to be CPU only. It turned out to be GPU mineable but only after a certain time, and is still being mined to this day although it has serious issues with it's difficulty due to large swings in mining interest due to snapshots.

PTS gives the right to claim parts in DACs based on your stake at the time of a snapshot, it was the case for BTSX at the end of february, and other snapshots that have been held since and future snapshots will all honor PTS.

So no, PTS is not the same thing as BTSX, it's a separate crypto currency.

Where can one find info on mining PTS?

Marketplace / Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« on: September 20, 2014, 01:29:52 am »
I too have been looking into methods of buying BitShares that don't involve the use of a bank account or compromise your real world identity. There are very few options, but I'll tell you what I have found.

At this point in time it's very unlikely owners of BTSX shares will be willing to directly sell shares to you. Most here are in the process of buying as many BitShares as then can afford.

Another option is to locate a proxy agent. You could post a request here in the marketplace of this forum, asking if anyone would buy the shares for you and send them to your wallet. Of course you would have to pay their fees and probably a significant profit to make it worth their while. And how will you pay them for the shares? Send them a money order, or some other real asset like precious metals? That might be an option, but in my experience it's rare to find anyone willing to do this. There are always so many fees to be paid to redeem hard assets, not to mention escrow fees and the profits of anyone you don't already have a trust relationship with for acting as your purchasing proxy.

There is also, a commercial proxy agent that's made a business out of matching bitcoin buyers and sellers. They act as an escrow service and hold the seller's bitcoins until the seller acknowledges receipt of the buyers funds.

Another commercial proxy agent is They offer 2 ways to buy bitcoins, 1: through two or three specific banks they have relationships with (see their website for details), or 2: cash by mail. is one of the sellers listed on the website and enjoys a 100% positive transaction rating. You can use any delivery service to get your cash to them in Athens Georgia. They don't take postal money orders due to the lengthy time it requires to validate them. You should also be aware that the USPS won't allow you to send cash in the mail (if you tell them!), nor does USPS insurance cover a loss of cash should you send it anyway. And of course if you literally send them cash you risk it being lost in transit, depending on your choice of delivery services, and, depending on the honesty of those working for CashToCrypto, who has just been in business for a short time (less than 2 months). Although it's no guarantee, it's doubtful they would risk a business reputation by outright theft, especially if you take precautions with your packaging and choice of delivery service. CashToCrypto has also been offering promo codes on their facebook page and on which waive their 2% fee.

I decided to take the risk and use I was able to use one of the promo codes and thus only had to pay the normal bitcoin transaction fee, not their 2% fee. I chose not to utilize the escrow service offered by to save that fee also. I used an overnight delivery service to send the cash. They sent my bitcoins to my wallet with an hour of them receiving my package.

You will need to have an account on an exchange that sells BTSX shares, such as BTC38, Coinbase, or bter, to name a few. Some allow you to setup an account anonymously (is anything on the net really anonymous? Use TOR, IP proxies or your favorite tools of choice to be as anonymous as you like) with only an email address. Once you have BTC you can easily buy BTSX shares. That part of the process is straightforward.

Good luck!

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