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Messages - zapata42

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31
Technical Support / Re: ETF on BitShares
« on: April 09, 2018, 02:22:12 pm »
When and how do i have to whitelist some accounts for publishing the price feed?

You can do it from the UI after you create the Smart Asset.
When you are the issuer in the asset page you have a feed producer tab, where you can grant some accounts the right to publish feeds.

Does anyone have knowledge about published the price feed?
-How do you sent the price feed?
-how can you make a price feed?

http://docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/tutorials/publish-feed.html

32
We've created 3 new smart-assets: INDEXSPX (S&P 500), INDEXDJI (Dow Jones Industrial Average), INDEXNASDAQ with a precision of 8, paired them with BTS.
The script that gets latest index values, calculates price and pushes it to the blockchain is ready. Two separate 24/7 working servers are also ready to run the script. 
The question is how to do everything right? Should we convert the indexes to BTS price according to BTS/USD rate or just push the index value?

For example: Dow is 23,932.76 at the moment. Should we push 23,932 BTS or 23,932 / 0.144462 (USD/BTS rate)


Both are valid.

It depends what do you intend to sell.. do you want to guaranty the Dow performance against USD or BTS.

Actually buyer expect to perform against USD. That's why BTWTY and SNPFH express it in USD (publish feed = index price / USD/BTS rate).

Note that you can use BitUSD as collateral, and publish the index price unchanged.


33
General Discussion / Re: HERTZ - Oscillating Formula Based Asset
« on: April 08, 2018, 09:07:28 pm »
@zapata42 just to confirm, your BTS account is 'zapata42', yeah?

Yes, it's my account.

Do you have any news from the witness?


34
Technical Support / Re: ETF on BitShares
« on: April 08, 2018, 09:01:51 pm »

-What about paying dividends?

There is no build in feature in Bitshares for that.
You should:
  - Retrieve the list of holders of the ETF
  - Send them an amount of BTS/bitUSD that represent their dividends.
This could be either done manually through the UI, or (better) scripted.

Another option is to do a Total Return ETF, this means the dividends are automatically reinvested, you only have to impact the ETF price accordingly in your price feed script.


-Do you have to own the shares in the index for setting up an synthetic ETF?

No you only need to put the digital asset that has been defined by the issuer as collateral on Bitshares.


35
General Discussion / Re: Options and Futures contracts
« on: April 06, 2018, 08:28:39 am »
If no need to change the back end, anyone can make a proof of concept UI for it.

Unfortunately I think it needs a new margin call management formula.

Ideally an asset issuer should be able to provide a custom margin call formula through a small Domain Specific Language.
This would literally allow to build any type of products.

36
General Discussion / Re: Options and Futures contracts
« on: April 05, 2018, 08:53:08 pm »
Bump up this thread.

I think the final proposal of @Gleepower it's a good start.

Is there anyone else interested in this topic?

May be we can just put it in a roadmap so poeple can speculate  ;)

37
Technical Support / Re: ETF on BitShares
« on: April 05, 2018, 07:50:57 pm »
There was a link about ETF: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=25994.0, Please contact the author of that post.

Sorry I was too slow to answer ;)

38
Technical Support / Re: ETF on BitShares
« on: April 05, 2018, 07:43:02 pm »
Hello everyone,

Currently i am investigating the posibility of an AEX-ETF as smartcoin on BitShares. For the research i have some questions that are still unclear and i hope that you can help me with it.

Hello again,

-What are the pros and cons of an ETF on BitShares instead of current ETF from a bank?

The naive pitch is on slide 8 on the presentation.

Since my presentation I had the opportunity to speak with many poeple on the topic, so let me try to summarize it here for an open discussion with everyone:

An ETF on Bitshares is similar to a Fully funded synthetic ETF.
Generally there is pro/cons versus physical ones, but interestingly doing it the Bitshares MPA way keeps all the pros and fixes most of the cons: transparancy, liquidity and counterparty risks.

This means:

Pros:
   - all the benefits of a Fully funded synthetic ETF: better index tracking, possible on less liquid underlyings
   - all the benefits of crypto/blockchain/digitial assets: fast settlement, audit, no third party custodian, ...
   - all the benefits of the decentralized exchanges: multiple gateways, by default can be traded against all other assets (but still can have whitelisted/blacklisted assets), ...
   - faster time to market (from idea to listing) for the issuer, everything could be done through the Bitshares UI.
   - cheap (Bitshares fees to create an asset are ridiculous compared to fees to list on an organized exchanges).
   - issuer is autonomous (organized exchanges won't let you create an ETF if it won't bring enough liquidity as it's too costly for them)
   - automated and transparent distributions of fees to the issuer thanks to the market fees attribute on the Smart Coin and Bitshares cashflow mecanisms;
   - as an investor, you have no counterparty risk as the blockchain guaranty you that the collateral is always there and you can exit whenever you want thanks to the force settlement feature (even if there is no sellers)
   - potentially more liquidity as anyone can issue shares by putting collateral (contrary to usual ETF where only Authorized Participants/banks can), this brings also more market making/arbitrage opportunities (primary + secondary market).

Cons:
  - regulation is currently undefined (some will argue it's a pro...)
  - overcollaterization (so additional costs for the borrower)
  - currently all collateral/transactions/balances/order book are public (this also could be argued as a pro...)
  - physical management is easier than synthethic (additional risk on borrower side)
  - the collateral is a crypto token (BTS or BitXXX), which might have no value for the ETF buyer.

Note that you can do a traditional physical ETF using an IOU token, it will have many of the above benefits and none of the cons.

Did I miss something?

-Which steps has to be done for creating an ETF on BitShares?(how can the token be created)

1. Create the Smart Coin (see http://docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/tutorials/uia-create-gui.html)
   You can get the values from an existing ETF like https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/asset/TWENTIX
2. Whitelist a known account as price publisher
3. Schedule a batch that will regularly publish a price on the blockchain from that account (see http://docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/tutorials/publish-feed.html)

If you want to have independant price publishers, you will need to publish the composition of your ETF on the blockchain, so anyone can read the composition and publish a price.
See for example bittwenty.feed.
And the sample code here.





-If the value of the AEX changes, the new price of the ETF has to be published through witness or Authorized account. How can this be done?

As explained above, you need to schedule a price feed that will send the price regularly on the blockchain.


Thanks in advance

Hope this will help you, and anyone else to start their ETF business on Bitshares!

Anyway my thought on the topic:
  - There is a HUGE business oppurtunity
  - It requires skilled professionnal traders
  - Regulation / legal aspects on the topic should be investigated
  - This could have a major impact on the value of BTS token

39
Fox provides wrong price feeds?

It seems it's 10% away from average median on bitCNY: https://roelandp.nl/bitshareswitnesslog/

40
Technical Support / Re: Creating new Smartcoin
« on: April 02, 2018, 10:39:52 pm »
The value of the index will be provided by the market.
Te value of the collateral to put to issue your Smartcoin will be feed by the witness.
The witness will use their own algorithm and data source to produce and publish that price.
They can get the information from an external source such as another market, or compute the price throug a formula (aka Algorithmic Based Asset like HERO or HERTZ).
You can have a look at Bit20 technical description or slides 5 there.

Edit: Note that you don't need to rely on witnesses to publish the price, you can do it from any authorized account (to configure on the smartasset configuration page)
 

41
General Discussion / Re: HERTZ - Oscillating Formula Based Asset
« on: March 27, 2018, 03:59:12 pm »

Code: [Select]
rate_cny["HERTZ"] = compute_hertz() * rate_cny["USD"]
In the above snippet of code, does
Code: [Select]
rate_cny["USD"] result in the bitCNY:bitUSD rate, or the BTS:bitUSD rate?

If it's not BTS:bitUSD then it will not line up with the other hertz price feeds.

It is: CNY/USD rate (FIAT not bit).

The rates are taken from hq.sina.cn (see btsprice/sina.py).  Yahoo Finance API could be as source also, but the service has been closed by Yahoo. It might worth updating the scripts to get another source of rates like Alpha Vantage API (https://www.alphavantage.co/).. but this is another topic.

The formula does not end here, you have at btsprice/feedprice.py:161
Code: [Select]
self.price_queue[asset].append(bts_price_in_cny / self.bts_price.rate_cny[asset])
The main work (and difference) of alt's script is to compute 'bts_price_in_cny' from a variety of exchange's _order books_ (not tickers), then compute all other prices using the rate CNY / XXX.
I didn't change this principle, as I think it's the behavior expected by the witnesses are using this script maybe because they trust the BTS/CNY rate more than the others.

This mean the complete formula is:
Code: [Select]
BTS/CNY / (compute_HERTZ() * CNY/USD)
I hope this is fine.

Do not hesitate to do a review of the pull request. It will be easier to discuss around the code.


I'm not a witness so I can't test the publication. I'll try to setup it on testnet when I will have some time (probably next week).
Let me know if a witness using alt's script is avialable for testing.

I've got the hertz name reserved on testnet, I can provide you price feed publish rights on testnet if you're interested.

In the mean time, there were multiple witnesses on bitsharestalk who stated that they would consider supporting hertz once integrated into btsprice - I'll reach out to them in the next couple days.

I'll contact you or any witnesses in private so we can proceed with more testing.

42
General Discussion / Re: HERTZ - Oscillating Formula Based Asset
« on: March 26, 2018, 09:23:09 pm »
An attempt to help you: https://github.com/pch957/btsprice/pull/6

alt's btsprice use CNY/BTS rate as a base for all the prices, so I'm using it for Hertz/Hero.

I'm not a witness so I can't test the publication. I'll try to setup it on testnet when I will have some time (probably next week).
Let me know if a witness using alt's script is avialable for testing.

I have also started to gather all changes from the community on my repo: https://github.com/Zapata/btsprice/commits/master (WIP)

43
General Discussion / Re: Binance Dexathon - Discussion
« on: March 23, 2018, 01:35:22 pm »

However, I insist that there is NO way they do it without complete control over the parameters (e.g. network transaction fee etc.) which means over 51% committee.

At least if I was in their shoes, there is no way I'd embark on such a massive business venture, change my business model and move my operations to an exchange where I don't control the actual fees.

Sure 51% of the commitee is very decentralized ;-)
Good luck to bring other business on top of your platform!

What is the definition of a Decentralized Exchanche for Binance?

I'm guessing with regards to servers, order matching etc Just generally having the entire system work p2p.

Blockchain parameters are always handled by the developers in other platforms..

I think BTS might be a step too far for them :D

To get a p2p platform you need to give an incentive to blockproducers. So they will pay for the infrastructure, and it should be more expensive than sharing this cost with other business as on Bitshares.

Also if block producers start to disagree with the centralized decision on fees, they will start to hard fork. This situation is more likely as there is no transparent decrentralized governance.

They say they want to build a community, this comes with some tradeoff...

The cashflow mecanism with the asset fee / transaction fee separation, the referral/referee program, and all are made to build a business on top on the public network. Many solutions could be found to reach an agreement. This negotiation should happen, and we should learn from the output.



44
General Discussion / Re: Binance Dexathon - Discussion
« on: March 23, 2018, 11:03:56 am »

However, I insist that there is NO way they do it without complete control over the parameters (e.g. network transaction fee etc.) which means over 51% committee.

At least if I was in their shoes, there is no way I'd embark on such a massive business venture, change my business model and move my operations to an exchange where I don't control the actual fees.

Sure 51% of the commitee is very decentralized ;-)
Good luck to bring other business on top of your platform!

What is the definition of a Decentralized Exchanche for Binance?

45
General Discussion / Re: Binance Dexathon - Discussion
« on: March 23, 2018, 09:20:45 am »
Assuming that the BBF applied for that hackathon, what reasons would there be for Binance to
not fork the BitShares Code and instead use the existing blockchain?

* forking is not trivial
* skilled and experienced (!) developers are hard to find
* we have an existing ecosystem (community, users) that can't be forked so easily
* BTS already has value, development of codebase basically pays for itself

IMO we have much to gain and little to lose from applying.

I completely agree with you.

I would add / explicit some points:

  - Bootstrapping a truly decentralized / resilient community is hard and expensive (marketing to find witnesses, organize the governance, build trust...)
  - Building a decentralized exchange when you are a centralized company has no meaning (even more if you are the unique gateway). They will waste a lot of time and effort to convince others to join. If decentralization really matters to them, it is smarter to join Bitshares platform.
  - They will benefit of our worldwide decentralized infrastructure for free.
  - They get closed source third party applications like cryptofresh, bts.ai, ... for free
  - They will benefit of existing and future liquidity like bitspark, reserve fund, and other gateway bring
  - They will be able to list to existing smart assets (bitXXX, hero, Hertz, bittwenty/bittwentix, nasdaq,...) and attract their volume for free
  - They will benefit directly from the Bitshares (DAC/Financial Platform) marketing effort, and indirectly from other business marketing.
  - Development effort could become a revenue instead of a cost! (= worker proposal).
  - The development effort and cost is mutualized with all the others participants.
  - Building open source / decentralized software is really different than doing a closed source centralized software, you need the (really rare) appropriate skills and experience on open source development, blockchain/event based systems and decentralization.
  - By applying Bitshares community show their will to accept them in the community. It is not a wise move to fork a project that share the same goal as you and propose collabration, you fork because you have different ideas.
  - They should worry about getting more time to focus on AML / KYC / tax compliance, not rebuilding what already exists.
  - They already have the bridge between the dex and their cex

I think we should show them how they could setup their BNB token with the example of cyrptobridge or obits.
It can also be the opportunity to write an open source public example on how to build a deposit/withdraw gateway.

Imho getting a big influence is currently not so costly. You don't want to own too much anyway (this will kill the decentralized aspect). 30% should be the high cap. If you are active and big, many poeple will follow you (as a proxy, or vote in your direction). So 200M BTS should be enough. You should be able to get them with 30M-40M dollars max in current market conditions, which is nothing for a serious company.

I think blockchain industry is currently too fragmented, the future will be made of merges and acquisitions not forks. It is just a matter of time to see massive takeover bids on Bitshares.

I think we should apply for the contest. Bitshares as a financial platform have been made exaclty for that.  If we don't win we should learn why and fix the issue.
Maybe it worth a community vote to see if everyone agree we should make some efforts on that direction, as this could have a major impact for the users, but also for existing business. I'm very curius to know the position of existing gateways on the topic...

Do we know why they state "Currently, decentralized exchanges are inefficient and difficult to operate for the average user."? What is their level of knowledge on Bitshares? I hope they did some research before starting this kind of project...

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