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Messages - alphaBar

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181
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 05:32:53 am »
I think the OP makes at least one excellent point - there is a burning opportunity to unseat bitcoin as the dominant digital currency, and bitshares themselves do not have the right characteristics to do that.

Bitcoin was designed to be a new money to compete against fiat. Pegged assets like bitUSD are competing as a more efficient method for transferring the value of money. They could be pegged to fiat or crypto. bitShares is designed to earn business profit, which requires risk, and is not suitable as money.

These are different buckets in my view, although I know BM has argued they merely sit on a spectrum. It might be a powerful opportunity for bitShares to create something clearly designed to be money, but with properties superior to bitcoin and fiat, and using the DPoS framework that other crypto currencies cannot yet match.

 +5% To elaborate on this point, each model has different properties that make it suitable for different purposes. I think some/many people were more in agreement with the model of BTSX than the superDAC because it had properties that made it better suited for currency (specifically the deflationary protocol and the slightly less arbitrary allocation). Personally, I think the rapid change and adaptation that may enable corporations to adapt to their competitive landscape can be hurtful to a currency-DAC. To build on the analogy, shares in a corporation are poorly suited as a medium of exchange for an entire society (think mpesa). The coin that wins adoption as the backbone currency will have properties that are hugely different from those of a "digital corporation". Currency is the most risk-averse investment/application that can be built using this technology, and it also has the greatest potential for growth & adoption. I say we go after both the "digital corporation" application AND the "digital currency" application. The caveat here is that the banking and exchange DAC may require the properties of currency to be viable. Time will tell.

182
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 05:26:37 am »
AB, you have my nomination for the position of official PTS archivist. For the last three days, you've shown more interest in this dying institution than it's received in the last three months.

lol, it's a matter of perspective I guess  +5%

183
General Discussion / Re: I3 need to hire a CEO
« on: October 24, 2014, 03:56:17 am »
I3 needs to be disbanded and everyone on the BitShares team (including devs, marketing, partners, etc) need to signup as delegates so they get paid and we can vote on performance.

Has anyone stated whether marketing/development funds will be used to vote for I3 delegates (or others)?

184
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 03:52:18 am »
I'm interested in building and investing in the best decentralized autonomous company the market can offer.  Company mergers are extremely beneficial when entering new markets and introducing new products via R&D as it can:
1) Streamline administrative functions
2) Increase market share
3) Lower operational costs
4) Offer financial leveraging
5) Improve profitability
6) Increase earnings per share.

The merger will be beneficial to all stakeholders and continues to lower the barrier to entry.  The merger raises my confidence in BitShares the company and the leadership of I3, the core developers, and the marketing team because it demonstrates they understand the above and how to build value.  I wish you luck with your proposal because you're going to need it competing against such a team.

This is certainly one view of the world, and it may very well be the right one. I would argue that there is no inherent relationship between the Toolkit and the philosophical leanings of I3. One could just as easily fork the toolkit with a coin that maintains the core principles I've outlined above (different from those of the superDAC, but well suited for PTS), still derive value from the work of I3 developers, and possibly provide value to both the developers and the community at large if it succeeds. At the very least the new PTS would be better suited for sharedropping than the superDAC (for obvious reasons). Not much lost in attempting this, but possibly much to be gained.

In order for the fork to be successful and compete against BitShares it will have to add value and offer a competitive advantage over BitShares and (in my opinion) your proposal does neither.  Unless the fork comes with a Bytemaster, a Toast, an Alt, etc. it's going to have a hard time surviving in this brutal crypro-space long term.

That's just it. Bitshares PTS does come with Bytemaster, Toast, Alt, etc. The toolkit is developed and maintained by I3. The competitive advantages are (i) superior distribution (not the hodgepodge/arbitrary allocations of the superDAC) and (ii) strong scarcity (ZERO inflation, ever). You may be right that this is not enough of a competitive advantage - that the powerful features of the superDAC will be more appealing than strong scarcity and pure PoW distribution. But it is certainly a different approach that some people may prefer.

185
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 03:29:59 am »
I thought Bitshares is really well distributed both through AGS/PTS and also now via three months on exchanges?

I am unable to mine therefor POW won't be fair to me. I was able to purchase BTC and donate to the AGS fund though.

You are correct about this failure of PoW, but the reason it is generally considered to be far better for distribution is that the distribution is *trustless and provable*. In other words, there is no way for anyone to know whether donations in an IPO period are being made from the developers to themselves. This is the Achilles heel of IPO distribution.

Edit: I should mention that I don't think the dual IPO/PoW model is a bad one. I've invested heavily in I3 assets so I think it's the best that's been tried before. And the IPO aspect of it was necessary to fund development. But that does not preclude possibility of a pure DPOS coin with strong scarcity surpassing the feature-packed superDAC.

186
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 03:27:46 am »

WHat do you mean by weak scarcity ?

Scarcity can be ranked on a spectrum ranging from deflationary coins (BTSX) --> non-inflationary coins (BTC) --> optional/variable inflation coins (superDAC) --> inflationary coins (less common, maybe PPC/ETH/ZTC would qualify)

Of course the superDAC is worse than some pure inflationary coins in the sense that the upper bound of inflation is much higher (8%). Strong scarcity would be non-inflationary at the protocol level.

187
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 03:20:42 am »
Is the idea to essentially launch a DPOS PTS DAC and promote it as currency rather than sharedrop instrument?

It could be both. The honest truth is that Nxt was lightyears ahead of every other crypto until Bitshares launched, but they had only marginal success. Ask yourself why. To this day, Nxt has features that Bitshares hasn't implemented (multi-gateway trustless exchange between BTC-NXT/BTC-LTC/BTC-DOGE and digital goods store come to mind). No matter how superior they were in features and functionality, they could not overcome the stigma associated with their flawed IPO. Bitshares is better, but is it good enough? Time will tell. My argument is that a "purist" version of DPOS has a fighting chance for mass adoption, maybe even a better chance than a feature rich coin with a fumbled allocation problem and variable inflation (superDAC).

As for the second part of your question, I would also argue that such a "purist" DPOS coin is also ideally suited for sharedropping by the "feature-rich" coins. If it weren't for Gavin, I personally think Vitalik would have share-dropped to PTS/AGS for Ethereum. I think neither Vitalik nor Gavin nor any other rational developer would sharedrop to the superDAC. The ideal instrument for sharedropping is a fairly launched pure proof of work coin with no premine. This is PTS by definition. The same properties that make PTS well suited for currency also make it an ideal instrument for sharedropping/distribution by feature-based coins.

188
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 03:09:44 am »

This is an experiment that can be conducted with minimal cost.

Splitting the network so its participants can compete with itself has an extremely high cost.

Possibly. The counterargument is that the community as a whole gains from hedging against the possibility that the superDAC fails for reasons unrelated to the underlying protocol (the Toolkit). If there was heavy development overhead associated with this I'd agree, but other cryptos will fill the void in areas where we are weak. And we're certainly weak in some of the areas I've outlined above (distribution/allocation and scarcity). We may as well try both options and let the market decide. Either way we win.

189
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:56:50 am »
I'm interested in building and investing in the best decentralized autonomous company the market can offer.  Company mergers are extremely beneficial when entering new markets and introducing new products via R&D as it can:
1) Streamline administrative functions
2) Increase market share
3) Lower operational costs
4) Offer financial leveraging
5) Improve profitability
6) Increase earnings per share.

The merger will be beneficial to all stakeholders and continues to lower the barrier to entry.  The merger raises my confidence in BitShares the company and the leadership of I3, the core developers, and the marketing team because it demonstrates they understand the above and how to build value.  I wish you luck with your proposal because you're going to need it competing against such a team.

This is certainly one view of the world, and it may very well be the right one. I would argue that there is no inherent relationship between the Toolkit and the philosophical leanings of I3. One could just as easily fork the toolkit with a coin that maintains the core principles I've outlined above (different from those of the superDAC, but well suited for PTS), still derive value from the work of I3 developers, and possibly provide value to both the developers and the community at large if it succeeds. At the very least the new PTS would be better suited for sharedropping than the superDAC (for obvious reasons). Not much lost in attempting this, but possibly much to be gained.

190
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:51:25 am »
I am fan of this part:

With DPOS technology, no inflation, and pure proof of work distribution, I argue that the new Bitshares PTS has a shot at dethroning the superDAC.
Tell us more about this 'pure proof of work distribution'. I see it as pure CPU mining, no trading allowed and to make the things great it will be done on DPOS chain.

In case you didn't know, Bitshares PTS used a 100% proof of work distribution. It was simply a statement of fact. Your comments about CPU mining and "no trading allowed" are unintelligible so I'm sorry I can't help you there.

191
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:48:11 am »
This one too is brilliant :

Let's face it, the killer app in the crypto-space has always been and will always be one thing: currency. And to be a good store of value, any coin that maintains the sanctity of scarce supply at the protocol layer, will be leaps and bounds ahead of the competition

Edit : Ohh yeah this DAC will be 6x more powerful then the superDAC why ? Well because ..you know !!!! Ask Op he'll do the math for you.

The best thing would be if it magically improved your ability to comprehend basic English. But alas, "one chain to rule them all" is doomed to failure...

192
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:46:12 am »
Shouldn't this post be moved to "Third Party DACS"?

No less relevant than all the other discussions about what to do with PTS/AGS/BTSX.

193
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:44:44 am »
Lol lol is this a joke or you really believe it ? I'm mean for real take a deep breath  and please don't talk about POW as a solution to anything. I know only one person on this forum that could not get over AGS, and has a large stake of PTS and for some reason he's still in love with the stupidity of POW. For sure you know who is do you....? He has a writing stile similar to yours too. Fantastic !! But please don't stop spreading your wisdom... We still love you.
As for your DAC please do it I would really like you to do it to prove your brilliant point.

Not sure what you're talking about, I hate proof of work. The only thing that PoW does okay is distribution, nothing else. My proposal was to simply convert PTS to a standalone DPOS chain. Please explain how this is promotion of PoW? If you think there is a better distribution mechanism, please let us know what that is (hint: there isn't one). IPO is used primarily for funding, not distribution.

194
General Discussion / Re: The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:26:09 am »
From what I'm reading it almost seems as if you're interested in something completely different than what Bitshares is. It's all there for the competition to make the best they can and compete. For me I am still MUCH more interested in where Bitshares superdac is going.

You may be right, but think of it like as hedge against the superDAC. It costs nothing to implement, the allocation is 100% to members of this community, and if it fails you've lost nothing. There is no reason why DPOS should be tied to the success or failure of the superDAC. DPOS is hands down the best consensus algorithm, and it should be attempted in a pure and agnostic token with strong scarcity and fair distribution.

195
General Discussion / The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:09:47 am »
To any developers who are watching the current fiasco unfold, I have a suggestion for creating a DAC that I believe has a decent shot at beating the superDAC with minimal effort and expense. The Bitshares superDAC has the following weaknesses:

* The threshold for inflation is too low. By allowing inflation of up to 8% perpetually in the protocol, you end up with a situation where large stakeholders are able to "write their own paycheck" for lack of a better term. The biggest stakeholders in the superDAC will be I3, and for all intents and purposes they will be setting their own pay. It would take an almost impossible amount of stake (if you consider the avg participation rate) to "disagree" with their payrate and to vote them out. Any currency (even Bitcoin) allows for inflation. The difference is that inflation is not baked into the protocol, and would therefore require a far greater "stake" to implement (by modifying the protocol). Bitshares has ignored one of the main principles of crypto community: that scarcity should be (almost) inviolable.
* The second weakness of the superDAC is distribution. AGS distribution has already alienated a huge number of Bitcoin purists who are adamantly against "IPO coins". I don't necessarily agree with their philosophy, but there is a large segment of crypto users who will only invest in coins that have no IPO, no premine, and ONLY PoW distribution. The chaos that is unfolding with the superDAC has amplified the problem, possibly causing irreparable harm in PR and public distrust. I'm not speaking to intentions here. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions...
* The last weakness of the superDAC is what I call "abuse of the DAC analogy". Let's face it, the killer app in the crypto-space has always been and will always be one thing: currency. And to be a good store of value, any coin that maintains the sanctity of scarce supply at the protocol layer, will be leaps and bounds ahead of the competition. What Bitshares gains in "marketing funds" they will lose in investor confidence (from the very investors they are "marketing" to). It is true that running a DAC like a business will result in a more agile and adaptive token. But I would argue that we should run our "business" with the aim of positioning ourselves as the best currency and store of value (the killer app). As I mentioned earlier, I believe the crypto-space is searching for a "unit of account" that will inevitably become something of a global reserve upon which everything else is built. The coin that wins this battle will NOT be Bitcoin (primarily due to the pitfalls of PoW) and it will not be the coin with the most advanced features (see Nxt). The coin that becomes the defacto world reserve must be appealing to governments and serious investors and must be perceived as (i) fairly distributed, (ii) scarce (non-inflationary), (iii) efficient (DPOS), and (iv) secure. Any feature built on top of this coin cannot be done at the expense of these 4 things. The superDAC has failed in distribution/allocation and scarcity.

Here is my proposal:

Someone should fork the Bitshares Toolkit and create a new Bitshares PTS that launches on November 5th (the date of snapshot). The new PTS should have nothing but the core Toolkit functionality (DPOS+TITAN). With DPOS technology, no inflation, and pure proof of work distribution, I argue that the new Bitshares PTS has a shot at dethroning the superDAC.

This is an experiment that can be conducted with minimal cost. The new PTS can always benefit from improvements made to the Toolkit, and if PTS wins I am sure Dan and the rest of the devs from I3 will jump on board (since they will have a large stake in PTS as well). If it loses then nothing much is lost.

****Edit: To my surprise, this has generated a lot of interest. Please DM me if you'd like to contribute to making it happen.
****Edit2: Organizing a mailing list for those who are interested: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10540.0

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