If a delegate stop publishing feed prices for stopping his own losses, the necessary response of the blockchain has to be to kick him out. This conflict of interest is quite frightening for the stability of the whole system...

Quote from: cgafeng on January 14, 2015, 09:15:34 AM
stop market then bts die.

That's why you will have difficulties persuading 51+ delegates to not publish feeds any longer ... and this will only hold the market in 24h .. not earlier ..
no other chance to "stop" a market ..

stop market then bts die.

Quote from: Graffenwalder on January 14, 2015, 09:08:15 AM

Quote from: merlin0113 on January 14, 2015, 09:04:13 AM

Quote from: BTSdac on January 14, 2015, 08:49:35 AM
I don`t know the detail regular of BID and ask.
but I `d to say some as macroscopic view .
we cannot protect short so much. short should have risk. this risk restrict people short too many BTA . so it can limit the total supply of BTA . if bitusd is over supply,I think the price cannot peg.

I agree with you. But the problem is I can't buy enough bitUSD or bitCNY to cover my short order in wallet market, I even tried to short some bitUSD, but it is automatically filled by other people which is my mistake not awaring of the existed BTS sell order though. But I really don't know what to do if I had awared. Thanks alt, he helped me to add collateral. But when 30 days deadline reached and there is still no bitUSD at then price I will let it expire I guess.

What will happen when this expire thing happens if there is no enough BTS buy/short order then? thanks everyone for a clarification on this question.

It will put in a BTS buy order, at the feed price

This I can accept fine. I'm worried it would eat down to the order at whatever low price to gather eough bitUSD for me. This case I'm doomed.

Quote from: merlin0113 on January 14, 2015, 09:04:13 AM

Quote from: BTSdac on January 14, 2015, 08:49:35 AM
I don`t know the detail regular of BID and ask.
but I `d to say some as macroscopic view .
we cannot protect short so much. short should have risk. this risk restrict people short too many BTA . so it can limit the total supply of BTA . if bitusd is over supply,I think the price cannot peg.

I agree with you. But the problem is I can't buy enough bitUSD or bitCNY to cover my short order in wallet market, I even tried to short some bitUSD, but it is automatically filled by other people which is my mistake not awaring of the existed BTS sell order though. But I really don't know what to do if I had awared. Thanks alt, he helped me to add collateral. But when 30 days deadline reached and there is still no bitUSD at then price I will let it expire I guess.

What will happen when this expire thing happens if there is no enough BTS buy/short order then? thanks everyone for a clarification on this question.

It will put in a BTS buy order, at the feed price

Quote from: arhag on January 14, 2015, 08:38:48 AM

Quote from: alt on January 14, 2015, 08:10:22 AM
many people ask me to buy BITUSD or BITCNY to cover,
because there is not enough  bitusd and bitcny at market now. what ever price.
this is not fair to the short.
so I suggest to stop market engine emergency, any thought?

I think the market is working as intended.

It sucks for people who shorted and may have their margin called, but that is the deal they went into knowing this could be a possibility.

Also, if you want to avoid the margin call penalty, it is possible to just short to yourself at this new low price to cover your old short. You may likely need to buy more BTS to have enough collateral to do this though. And of course it means realizing the losses on your old shorts, as well as increasing your exposure to BTS (which could potentially fall even further). It's your choice whether that is better than just paying the penalty.

Other options include adding more collateral to keep the margin call price further away or even partial covering.

+5% +5% +5%

Quote from: BTSdac on January 14, 2015, 08:49:35 AM
I don`t know the detail regular of BID and ask.
but I `d to say some as macroscopic view .
we cannot protect short so much. short should have risk. this risk restrict people short too many BTA . so it can limit the total supply of BTA . if bitusd is over supply,I think the price cannot peg.

I agree with you. But the problem is I can't buy enough bitUSD or bitCNY to cover my short order in wallet market, I even tried to short some bitUSD, but it is automatically filled by other people which is my mistake not awaring of the existed BTS sell order though. But I really don't know what to do if I had awared. Thanks alt, he helped me to add collateral. But when 30 days deadline reached and there is still no bitUSD at then price I will let it expire I guess.

What will happen when this expire thing happens if there is no enough BTS buy/short order then? thanks everyone for a clarification on this question.

Quote from: alt on January 14, 2015, 08:47:57 AM
yes, first he want to short to himself,but when he short, someone else buy his USD.
so he have to add collateral, and he can't do this from qt wallet, finally he have to ask me for help.
I feel the long and short is not balance

before he is shorting he can put a specific buy order so he knows that his buy order will be executed  first (after he short) with very high probability ....

Quote from: Empirical1.1 on January 14, 2015, 08:26:01 AM
You mean not enough people want to buy BitUSD right now?

I wouldn't halt the market. If it can't stay operational in a situation like this how can we ever sell it in the future.

+5%

This would be the last thing we need right now, if we stop the markets BTS will go down, and we will be in bigger trouble.

BTS is outperforming BTC at the moment.
BTC seems to be over dumped at the 900 CNY level. (Time will tell)
I think we should see a reversal pretty soon.

I don`t know the detail regular of BID and ask.
but I `d to say some as macroscopic view .
we cannot protect short so much. short should have risk. this risk restrict people short too many BTA . so it can limit the total supply of BTA . if bitusd is over supply,I think the price cannot peg.

Quote from: xeroc on January 14, 2015, 08:30:22 AM
would the expiration cover buy up bitUSD above the feed?
would the force cover?

I believe both the expiration and margin call covers would be limited to the price feed. In the current market environment, that means they will not be automatically covered but rather will sit there as an order until someone decides to sell BitUSD at the price feed (or short sell it at the price feed). Whatever damage there will be to the short seller will be inevitable at that point (although I suppose they could buy BitUSD above the price feed and sell it at the price feed if they are desperate to get their collateral back immediately), but his collateral BTS would still be locked up until the cover order is filled.

Although this is based on my current understanding, and I am not sure if it is completely accurate.

yes, first he want to short to himself,but when he short, someone else buy his USD.
so he have to add collateral, and he can't do this from qt wallet, finally he have to ask me for help.
I feel the long and short is not balance

Quote from: alt on January 14, 2015, 08:10:22 AM
many people ask me to buy BITUSD or BITCNY to cover,
because there is not enough  bitusd and bitcny at market now. what ever price.
this is not fair to the short.
so I suggest to stop market engine emergency, any thought?

I think the market is working as intended.

It sucks for people who shorted and may have their margin called, but that is the deal they went into knowing this could be a possibility.

Also, if you want to avoid the margin call penalty, it is possible to just short to yourself at this new low price to cover your old short. You may likely need to buy more BTS to have enough collateral to do this though. And of course it means realizing the losses on your old shorts, as well as increasing your exposure to BTS (which could potentially fall even further). It's your choice whether that is better than just paying the penalty.

Other options include adding more collateral to keep the margin call price further away or even partial covering.

It's a market, it's not supposed to be fair imo..

What exactly is the problem? People do not want to pay the market price for bitUSD? I managed to short some bitUSD and bitCNY yesterday and so did a lot of other people (about 35,000 USD created yesterday), so the market seems to be working to me.

Yes the market is thin right now but that's also a consequence of a lot of trading action yesterday.

Quote from: alt on January 14, 2015, 08:23:54 AM
If the price is 0.01USD/BTS, and if there is no USD at market,
I think it's OK to allow shorter to cover the order at price 0.009, this is the last way.

Are there limitations on cover orders?

Quote from: Empirical1.1 on January 14, 2015, 08:26:01 AM
You mean not enough people want to buy BitUSD right now?

I wouldn't halt the market. If it can't stay operational in a situation like this how can we ever sell it in the future.

We want bitusd to cover but there's nowhere to go to buy bitusd except in the wallet market. Bitcny I think we have the btstrade.com to go to, I will give it a try.