Quote from: Ben Mason on May 10, 2015, 09:08:30 PM
Absolutely fuzzy. I really hope that the stark words I use don't feel like a rebuke to anyone. Especially on this marvellous forum. I realise those of us that advocate for compromise or balance are being pragmatic and genuinely attempting to build network effect first. And you know what, maybe that is the right way to go for Bitshares. The fact is that if Bitshares is the stepping stone to the goal, that's fine. But we should acknowledge that any compromise we make will be forked away at some point. And that's fine too. Now we have crypto, it is impossible to prevent innovation that makes it better from asserting itself eventually, assuming we have at least a partially free internet. Loving Maidsafe by the way  ;D

I am more concerned that the pressures of "succeeding" can be manipulated by the current money masters. They hold the carrot and the stick because we've given it to them willingly. They can manipulate this entire crypto market and we already have whistle blowers who have revealed the "elite" plans for a cash free society and have even told us why they plan this. 

And if something else is needed to lend legitimacy to this all we have to do is look around us at the blatant evidence and put it together like so many pieces to the puzzle.  We have, for instance illegal surveillance, street cameras on every corner, cell phones that double as spy devices, political leaders calling liberty-loving veterans (who have sacrificed more than the politicians would ever dare sacrifice) "domestic terrorists", the TPP (which elected officials must sign NDA's just to read, a war on drugs while our troops guard poppy fields, presidents and politicians who have warned us and fought just to be murdered afterwards, the IRS leader "losing her emails" (we are all techies here...for Pete's sake).  The list is so long it is mind blowing that it is equally mindblowing that good people think that these evil, dangerous psychopaths will play fair. They never will because they respect nothing but their own psychopathic delusions.

I look at my beautiful baby boy and I swear on all that exists I will not have a hand in the creation of a world where these people rule over him and leech away the value his beautiful mind creates. 

I want all of you and all those you love to be FREE to live and love each other.  It is all of you who give me hope and that is why I've been here...from the very beginning.  It is why I have endured my wife's difficulty understanding the value of what we are doing together.  It is why my family thinks I'm going nowhere...wasting my time on "crypto nerd stuff".  A token is nothing. NOTHING if we don't have freedom...and a community of people who back those ideals with everything they have.

Happy mothers day my bitshares family.  I salute you...it is your recognition of the consequences, and your action that empowers our movement. Never forget that.

Absolutely fuzzy. I really hope that the stark words I use don't feel like a rebuke to anyone. Especially on this marvellous forum. I realise those of us that advocate for compromise or balance are being pragmatic and genuinely attempting to build network effect first. And you know what, maybe that is the right way to go for Bitshares. The fact is that if Bitshares is the stepping stone to the goal, that's fine. But we should acknowledge that any compromise we make will be forked away at some point. And that's fine too. Now we have crypto, it is impossible to prevent innovation that makes it better from asserting itself eventually, assuming we have at least a partially free internet. Loving Maidsafe by the way  ;D

Quote from: Ben Mason on May 10, 2015, 08:31:54 PM
Regulation under the current system is entrapment via debt backed by force. It is beyond obvious that there is one set of rules for some and another for others. That is zero justice. So we live in a system that creates debt slavery out of everyone eventually, concentrates all resources into the hands of those least capable of deploying them in a constructive manner and destroys our finite environment in the process. F8cking brilliant.

So forget regulation. Completely. Kiss the idea goodbye. Forever.

FIAT is finished. BitGold & BItSilver are the future. People will wake up one day. If Bitshares is ready, if it has retained its integrity, then boom, job done, game over. Hello sovereignty at an individual level with cooperation and capital efficiently deployed to fix all our problems and a path to mass human enlightenment.

It all literally comes down to us making that decision. ..and as you said, our integrity.

Regulation under the current system is entrapment via debt backed by force. It is beyond obvious that there is one set of rules for some and another for others. That is zero justice. So we live in a system that creates debt slavery out of everyone eventually, concentrates all resources into the hands of those least capable of deploying them in a constructive manner and destroys our finite environment in the process. F8cking brilliant.

So forget regulation. Completely. Kiss the idea goodbye. Forever.

FIAT is finished. BitGold & BItSilver are the future. People will wake up one day. If Bitshares is ready, if it has retained its integrity, then boom, job done, game over. Hello sovereignty at an individual level with cooperation and capital efficiently deployed to fix all our problems and a path to mass human enlightenment.

Great discussion, the heat feels very real, especially with some of the concerns raised on the latest mumble, dev hangout. Perhaps this will be the main discussion in 2015: how to balance regulation with decentralized freedom. Personally I hope existing infrastructure that wants to deal in IOUs will be fine with bitAssets existing on the same network, and again that regulators will be fine with this, which is an open question. Creating two chains might be what we will see, but then what will happen. There are a lot of things to think through in this area.

Quote from: Ander on May 10, 2015, 01:22:56 AM
Didnt we say months ago "Bitshares is decentralized ripple".

for me: BitShares is decentralized ripple + counterparty risk-free bitassets

Listened to this episode now...and it was actually a good point, though I disagree wholly that bitcoin is decentralized (an inference they made).

Didnt we say months ago "Bitshares is decentralized ripple".

Andreas makes such absolute statements that issuing gateway IOUs on a blockchain is a path to censorship & control. He fails to acknowledge that Bitcoin is already censorable when you hold it on an exchange, which is 100% equivalent to holding a gateway IOU.

He says its good that meta protocols like Counterparty are never going to allow whitelisting, well then they lose out on revenue streams from exchanges/gateways who want to open up their orderbook, which is good for BitShares.

Exchanges need to be in control of their own assets. If you want counterparty free currency then BitAssets (and even XRP) keep you in control. Just not Bitstamp USD - the clue is in the name, Andreas.

My 2 BitCents.

Could be an attempt to highlight the fact that Bitshares is the polar opposite of riptyrannyple

It's more of the association with Ripple as a centralized entity then the iou part that's harmful.

Quote from: favdesu on May 09, 2015, 07:46:49 PM
that's actually pretty good. he's not tying BitShares to Ripple, but talking about IOU/UIA in this context. nothing negative.

Agreed

that's actually pretty good. he's not tying BitShares to Ripple, but talking about IOU/UIA in this context. nothing negative.

~32:00

Looks like Adam Levine is associating the ripple fiasco with Bitshares by mentioning us in the same context. Sorry  i don't have the exact time in podcast.

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-211-the-slippery-slope