Quote from: mindphlux on October 28, 2015, 06:25:11 AM
It seems you set the non premium account creation fee to 4750000 which is 47.5 BTS, if I'm not mistaken. Where's the multiplicator?

I think its the

"scale": 20000


A fee structure like this is not possible in the protocol, so a Committee member can also not create a proposal for this. This needs a worker proposal to make the changes in the protocol first, and then a Committee proposal to get it activated (hard fork)

I think the fee is the biggest argument now
so I have to questions about it 
1. if you agree my propose,

Quote from: BTSdac on October 23, 2015, 06:32:04 AM

my suggestion is adjust fee according to average transaction per second (TPS)
we can select a term , such as 15 days as one months , adjust the fee according to TPS value
1. if TPS<=5.                   fee=2bts or $0.01
2. if 5<TPS<=10 ,             fee=4bts or $0.02
3. if 10<TPS<=20,            fee=6bts or $0.03
4. if 20<TPS<=40             fee=8bts or $0.04
5. if 40<TPS<=80             fee=10 bts or $0.05
6. if 80<TPS<=160           fee=12bts or $0.06
7. if 160 <TPS<320          fee=14bts or $0.07
8. if 320<TPS<=640         fee=16bts or $0.08
9.if 640 <TPS<=1280       fee=18bts or $0.09
10. if 1280<TPS<=2560  fee=20bts or $0.10
11. if TPS>2560                fee=40bts or $0.20

2. what is your  concept  of fee ?
    i have a concept about fee
transfer fee < exchange fee < short/cover fee  < bond fee

Quote from: bitscape on October 28, 2015, 06:32:28 AM

• BUT any proposal can also be rejected by shareholders within the review period? If so, how?

[/list]

Vote the Committee member who made the proposal out within the review period. The review period should be 14 days.
The Committee member can specify what other Committee members are required for approval - if those Committee members do not approve, the proposal is not valid, if I'm not mistaken.

puppy has not designed any Committee members that are required to approve, so it could go through if he's not voted out before the review period ends.

Quote from: cube on October 28, 2015, 03:38:53 AM
It looks correct to me.  The 'review_period_time - 2015-10-28T11:00:00' is too soon. (Now is "2015-10-28T03:39:48")  I think we need more time for committee members to review and approve it.  Perhaps give it about 5 days at least?

We need more committee members to vote this proposal in.  I am stepping up as a temp committee member to support this cause.

First off,  +5% for stepping up and trying out the controls of this magnificent machine.. :)

Next, someone check my understanding of this process and help me fill in the blanks please.

• Committee members are elected by shareholders to have the power to make and approve proposals.
• Shareholders express desire for a change to bts parameters.
• A committee member who agrees with said change, creates a proposal, and asks for other committee members to approve that proposal
• Once the proposal is created there is a period of time for review of the proposal (currently this is a very brief window, is it 4 hours?)
• There is a some committee approval threshold which a proposal must reach to take effect? What is that threshold?
• BUT any proposal can also be rejected by shareholders within the review period? If so, how?

Edit: I third the suggestion to extend review period time.

It seems you set the non premium account creation fee to 4750000 which is 47.5 BTS, if I'm not mistaken. Where's the multiplicator?

I voted for your approval.

Quote from: puppies on October 28, 2015, 12:05:29 AM
I have submitted a proposal to change the non premium account creation fee to 47.5bts*2 to return it to the 95bts it was at prior to the recent doubling of fees.  The proposal is 1.10.9

Code Select Expand


locked >>> get_object 1.10.9
get_object 1.10.9
[{
    "id": "1.10.9",
    "expiration_time": "2015-10-28T12:00:00",
    "review_period_time": "2015-10-28T11:00:00",
    "proposed_transaction": {
      "ref_block_num": 0,
      "ref_block_prefix": 0,
      "expiration": "2015-10-28T12:00:00",
      "operations": [[
          31,{
            "fee": {
              "amount": 4000000,
              "asset_id": "1.3.0"
            },
            "new_parameters": {
              "current_fees": {
                "parameters": [[
                    0,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 1000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    1,{
                      "fee": 500000
                    }
                  ],[
                    2,{
                      "fee": 0
                    }
                  ],[
                    3,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    4,{}
                  ],[
                    5,{
                      "basic_fee": 4750000,
                      "premium_fee": 200000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    6,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    7,{
                      "fee": 300000
                    }
                  ],[
                    8,{
                      "membership_annual_fee": 200000000,
                      "membership_lifetime_fee": 1000000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    9,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    10,{
                      "symbol3": "50000000000",
                      "symbol4": "13000000000",
                      "long_symbol": 250000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    11,{
                      "fee": 50000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    12,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    13,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    14,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    15,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    16,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    17,{
                      "fee": 10000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    18,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    19,{
                      "fee": 5000
                    }
                  ],[
                    20,{
                      "fee": 500000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    21,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    22,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    23,{
                      "fee": 100000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    24,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    25,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    26,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    27,{
                      "fee": 0,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    28,{
                      "fee": 500000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    29,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    30,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    31,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    32,{
                      "fee": 500000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    33,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    34,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    35,{
                      "fee": 100000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    36,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    37,{}
                  ],[
                    38,{
                      "fee": 500000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    39,{
                      "fee": 1000000,
                      "price_per_output": 1000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    41,{
                      "fee": 1000000
                    }
                  ]
                ],
                "scale": 20000
              },
              "block_interval": 3,
              "maintenance_interval": 3600,
              "maintenance_skip_slots": 3,
              "committee_proposal_review_period": 3600,
              "maximum_transaction_size": 98304,
              "maximum_block_size": 2097152,
              "maximum_time_until_expiration": 86400,
              "maximum_proposal_lifetime": 2419200,
              "maximum_asset_whitelist_authorities": 10,
              "maximum_asset_feed_publishers": 10,
              "maximum_witness_count": 1001,
              "maximum_committee_count": 1001,
              "maximum_authority_membership": 10,
              "reserve_percent_of_fee": 2000,
              "network_percent_of_fee": 2000,
              "lifetime_referrer_percent_of_fee": 3000,
              "cashback_vesting_period_seconds": 7776000,
              "cashback_vesting_threshold": 10000000,
              "count_non_member_votes": true,
              "allow_non_member_whitelists": false,
              "witness_pay_per_block": 150000,
              "worker_budget_per_day": "50000000000",
              "max_predicate_opcode": 1,
              "fee_liquidation_threshold": 10000000,
              "accounts_per_fee_scale": 1000,
              "account_fee_scale_bitshifts": 0,
              "max_authority_depth": 2,
              "extensions": []
            }
          }
        ]
      ],
      "extensions": []
    },
    "required_active_approvals": [
      "1.2.0"
    ],
    "available_active_approvals": [],
    "required_owner_approvals": [],
    "available_owner_approvals": [],
    "available_key_approvals": []
  }
]
locked >>>


Please support this proposal.  At the current price of 190bt to create an account the 80% refund takes 90 days to vest.  Reducing this to 95bts will be good for our faucets and our referral system, as it will allow them to get their cash back funds in a timely manner.

p.s.
     I think I created this proposal correctly.  Please let me know if I messed up.

p.p.s
     if you are a committee member you should be able to approve this with

Code Select Expand


approve_proposal dele-puppy "1.10.9" {"active_approvals_to_add" : ["<your committee member name>"]} true


Quote from: puppies on October 28, 2015, 12:05:29 AM
I have submitted a proposal to change the non premium account creation fee to 47.5bts*2 to return it to the 95bts it was at prior to the recent doubling of fees.  The proposal is 1.10.9

Code Select Expand


locked >>> get_object 1.10.9
get_object 1.10.9
[{
    "id": "1.10.9",
    "expiration_time": "2015-10-28T12:00:00",
    "review_period_time": "2015-10-28T11:00:00",
    "proposed_transaction": {
      "ref_block_num": 0,
      "ref_block_prefix": 0,
      "expiration": "2015-10-28T12:00:00",
      "operations": [[
          31,{
            "fee": {
              "amount": 4000000,
              "asset_id": "1.3.0"
            },
            "new_parameters": {
              "current_fees": {
                "parameters": [[
                    0,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 1000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    1,{
                      "fee": 500000
                    }
                  ],[
                    2,{
                      "fee": 0
                    }
                  ],[
                    3,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    4,{}
                  ],[
                    5,{
                      "basic_fee": 4750000,
                      "premium_fee": 200000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    6,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    7,{
                      "fee": 300000
                    }
                  ],[
                    8,{
                      "membership_annual_fee": 200000000,
                      "membership_lifetime_fee": 1000000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    9,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    10,{
                      "symbol3": "50000000000",
                      "symbol4": "13000000000",
                      "long_symbol": 250000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    11,{
                      "fee": 50000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    12,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    13,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    14,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    15,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    16,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    17,{
                      "fee": 10000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    18,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    19,{
                      "fee": 5000
                    }
                  ],[
                    20,{
                      "fee": 500000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    21,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    22,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    23,{
                      "fee": 100000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    24,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    25,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    26,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    27,{
                      "fee": 0,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    28,{
                      "fee": 500000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    29,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    30,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    31,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    32,{
                      "fee": 500000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    33,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    34,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    35,{
                      "fee": 100000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    36,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    37,{}
                  ],[
                    38,{
                      "fee": 500000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    39,{
                      "fee": 1000000,
                      "price_per_output": 1000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    41,{
                      "fee": 1000000
                    }
                  ]
                ],
                "scale": 20000
              },
              "block_interval": 3,
              "maintenance_interval": 3600,
              "maintenance_skip_slots": 3,
              "committee_proposal_review_period": 3600,
              "maximum_transaction_size": 98304,
              "maximum_block_size": 2097152,
              "maximum_time_until_expiration": 86400,
              "maximum_proposal_lifetime": 2419200,
              "maximum_asset_whitelist_authorities": 10,
              "maximum_asset_feed_publishers": 10,
              "maximum_witness_count": 1001,
              "maximum_committee_count": 1001,
              "maximum_authority_membership": 10,
              "reserve_percent_of_fee": 2000,
              "network_percent_of_fee": 2000,
              "lifetime_referrer_percent_of_fee": 3000,
              "cashback_vesting_period_seconds": 7776000,
              "cashback_vesting_threshold": 10000000,
              "count_non_member_votes": true,
              "allow_non_member_whitelists": false,
              "witness_pay_per_block": 150000,
              "worker_budget_per_day": "50000000000",
              "max_predicate_opcode": 1,
              "fee_liquidation_threshold": 10000000,
              "accounts_per_fee_scale": 1000,
              "account_fee_scale_bitshifts": 0,
              "max_authority_depth": 2,
              "extensions": []
            }
          }
        ]
      ],
      "extensions": []
    },
    "required_active_approvals": [
      "1.2.0"
    ],
    "available_active_approvals": [],
    "required_owner_approvals": [],
    "available_owner_approvals": [],
    "available_key_approvals": []
  }
]
locked >>>


Please support this proposal.  At the current price of 190bt to create an account the 80% refund takes 90 days to vest.  Reducing this to 95bts will be good for our faucets and our referral system, as it will allow them to get their cash back funds in a timely manner.

p.s.
     I think I created this proposal correctly.  Please let me know if I messed up.

p.p.s
     if you are a committee member you should be able to approve this with

Code Select Expand


approve_proposal dele-puppy "1.10.9" {"active_approvals_to_add" : ["<your committee member name>"]} true


I wanted to get a closer look at the proposal, so I created a basic viewer:

http://cryptofresh.com/p/1.10.9

I've added your command on the page for easy reference.. I hope it's right :) but the first parameter is I believe fee-paying-account.

How do members who don't want this proposal to go through vote against it?

Quote from: cube on October 28, 2015, 03:38:53 AM
It looks correct to me.  The 'review_period_time - 2015-10-28T11:00:00' is too soon. (Now is "2015-10-28T03:39:48")  I think we need more time for committee members to review and approve it.  Perhaps give it about 5 days at least?

We need more committe members to vote this proposal in.  I am stepping up as a temp committee member to support this cause.

Yea, definitely might need longer review, plus we might have some new committee members joining soon..

And what's with old proposals being inaccessible? get_object(1.10.1 thru 1.10.8) all return "null".. I think there needs to be an easy way to reference previous changes..

It looks correct to me.  The 'review_period_time - 2015-10-28T11:00:00' is too soon. (Now is "2015-10-28T03:39:48")  I think we need more time for committee members to review and approve it.  Perhaps give it about 5 days at least?

We need more committe members to vote this proposal in.  I am stepping up as a temp committee member to support this cause.

I have submitted a proposal to change the non premium account creation fee to 47.5bts*2 to return it to the 95bts it was at prior to the recent doubling of fees.  The proposal is 1.10.9

locked >>> get_object 1.10.9
get_object 1.10.9
[{
    "id": "1.10.9",
    "expiration_time": "2015-10-28T12:00:00",
    "review_period_time": "2015-10-28T11:00:00",
    "proposed_transaction": {
      "ref_block_num": 0,
      "ref_block_prefix": 0,
      "expiration": "2015-10-28T12:00:00",
      "operations": [[
          31,{
            "fee": {
              "amount": 4000000,
              "asset_id": "1.3.0"
            },
            "new_parameters": {
              "current_fees": {
                "parameters": [[
                    0,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 1000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    1,{
                      "fee": 500000
                    }
                  ],[
                    2,{
                      "fee": 0
                    }
                  ],[
                    3,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    4,{}
                  ],[
                    5,{
                      "basic_fee": 4750000,
                      "premium_fee": 200000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    6,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    7,{
                      "fee": 300000
                    }
                  ],[
                    8,{
                      "membership_annual_fee": 200000000,
                      "membership_lifetime_fee": 1000000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    9,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    10,{
                      "symbol3": "50000000000",
                      "symbol4": "13000000000",
                      "long_symbol": 250000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    11,{
                      "fee": 50000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    12,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    13,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    14,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    15,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    16,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    17,{
                      "fee": 10000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    18,{
                      "fee": 50000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    19,{
                      "fee": 5000
                    }
                  ],[
                    20,{
                      "fee": 500000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    21,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    22,{
                      "fee": 2000000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    23,{
                      "fee": 100000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    24,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    25,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    26,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    27,{
                      "fee": 0,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    28,{
                      "fee": 500000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    29,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    30,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    31,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    32,{
                      "fee": 500000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    33,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    34,{
                      "fee": 100000
                    }
                  ],[
                    35,{
                      "fee": 100000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    36,{
                      "fee": 2000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    37,{}
                  ],[
                    38,{
                      "fee": 500000,
                      "price_per_kbyte": 10
                    }
                  ],[
                    39,{
                      "fee": 1000000,
                      "price_per_output": 1000000
                    }
                  ],[
                    41,{
                      "fee": 1000000
                    }
                  ]
                ],
                "scale": 20000
              },
              "block_interval": 3,
              "maintenance_interval": 3600,
              "maintenance_skip_slots": 3,
              "committee_proposal_review_period": 3600,
              "maximum_transaction_size": 98304,
              "maximum_block_size": 2097152,
              "maximum_time_until_expiration": 86400,
              "maximum_proposal_lifetime": 2419200,
              "maximum_asset_whitelist_authorities": 10,
              "maximum_asset_feed_publishers": 10,
              "maximum_witness_count": 1001,
              "maximum_committee_count": 1001,
              "maximum_authority_membership": 10,
              "reserve_percent_of_fee": 2000,
              "network_percent_of_fee": 2000,
              "lifetime_referrer_percent_of_fee": 3000,
              "cashback_vesting_period_seconds": 7776000,
              "cashback_vesting_threshold": 10000000,
              "count_non_member_votes": true,
              "allow_non_member_whitelists": false,
              "witness_pay_per_block": 150000,
              "worker_budget_per_day": "50000000000",
              "max_predicate_opcode": 1,
              "fee_liquidation_threshold": 10000000,
              "accounts_per_fee_scale": 1000,
              "account_fee_scale_bitshifts": 0,
              "max_authority_depth": 2,
              "extensions": []
            }
          }
        ]
      ],
      "extensions": []
    },
    "required_active_approvals": [
      "1.2.0"
    ],
    "available_active_approvals": [],
    "required_owner_approvals": [],
    "available_owner_approvals": [],
    "available_key_approvals": []
  }
]
locked >>>


Please support this proposal.  At the current price of 190bt to create an account the 80% refund takes 90 days to vest.  Reducing this to 95bts will be good for our faucets and our referral system, as it will allow them to get their cash back funds in a timely manner.

p.s.
     I think I created this proposal correctly.  Please let me know if I messed up.

p.p.s
     if you are a committee member you should be able to approve this with

approve_proposal dele-puppy "1.10.9" {"active_approvals_to_add" : ["<your committee member name>"]} true


Congrats & thanks for stepping up!!

Congratulations!  And thanks for standing up to help the community as a committee member.

You're in! Congrats!

Gotcha.  A reduction in transfer fee from $.05 to $.01 is still a great benefit, but definitely less likely to make someone upgrade than $.20 to $.04. 

At what point do the fees decrease the likelihood of new users getting involved at all. 

Quote from: puppies on October 24, 2015, 03:15:21 PM

Quote from: fav on October 24, 2015, 06:30:24 AM
I'm cool with it except for tx fees.

How do you plan to keep Lt relevant? How do you fund worker pool? How do you make this interesting for marketers?

I'm not sure what you mean by keep Lt relevant.  Typo?  keep it relevant? 

I am by no means sold on reducing transfer fee.  I am just open to the idea.  I kinda like the idea of competing with btc transfer wise, and charging more for the stuff that you cant do on the btc chain.  I would like to see a breakdown of which operations are making us the most bts.  We need to keep deflation going, fund our workers so we can improve the blockchain, and provide an incentive to marketers to sign up new users.  All of those things are more important than having a low transfer fee.

lt = lifetime

Quote from: fav on October 24, 2015, 06:30:24 AM
I'm cool with it except for tx fees.

How do you plan to keep Lt relevant? How do you fund worker pool? How do you make this interesting for marketers?

I'm not sure what you mean by keep Lt relevant.  Typo?  keep it relevant? 

I am by no means sold on reducing transfer fee.  I am just open to the idea.  I kinda like the idea of competing with btc transfer wise, and charging more for the stuff that you cant do on the btc chain.  I would like to see a breakdown of which operations are making us the most bts.  We need to keep deflation going, fund our workers so we can improve the blockchain, and provide an incentive to marketers to sign up new users.  All of those things are more important than having a low transfer fee.