Quote from: morpheus on December 29, 2015, 06:26:44 PM
I think you are way off base with this whole mutual aid society idea, especially when the dex is not completed.  This is another 180 degree turn just like the merger, only this one is not necessary.  Perhaps this is something to look into later once the dex is successful, but not now.

Its best to focus on these 4 things in 2016 to get the dex and smartcoin technology bootstrapped:

1)  Stealth
2)  Maker
3)  Lending (Bond) market
4)  Prediction market

This could probably all be achieved in 2016.  Whether through worker proposal, FBA, outside investment, or some other type of funding, this needs to happen.  Even if it has to be done through worker proposal and market cap takes a hit, it needs to be done.  Doing nothing or pivoting 180 degrees would be worse.

Adding new applications to the BitShares platform does not constitute any kind of a turn.

1)  Stealth
2)  Maker
3)  Lending (Bond) market
4)  Prediction market
5)  MAS

We now have 5 and may well have a dozen such candidate businesses by this time next year.
In the mean time, each candidate needs a champion willing to raise or supply the cash to develop it.

Having considered all the others, MAS seems like the best fit for our personal investment.  Who can say otherwise?

We have a team of very capable business developers who are incentivized and perfectly capable of finding (or being) champions for the others.  As champions emerge, these features will get the attention they deserve.

Quote from: topcandle on December 29, 2015, 06:36:09 PM
MAS is one more reason to leave bitshares.  I will leave if MAS is worked on before bond market and orediction markets.  It's highly theoretical and will take more funding and resources than you estimate.  Why?  cause it's a reoccurring theme here when bitshares tries to implement somethjng anew and untested.

Did BM ask you to fund it?
I am sure if you can fund the development for prediction markets CNX will hire more devs and get it done

Quote from: Thom on December 29, 2015, 06:32:34 PM
It's an interesting challenge.

I fully agree with your perspectives regarding vision statements. Mission statements are similar.

I say your blog is challenging b/c it causes me to ask the question, how?

I myself am living below the poverty line (by American standards), yet I find ways to help others mostly by investing my time and skills, since I have very little actual capital. I am rich in many other ways however. 

BitShares is in a similar position, in that our ecosystem is poor (in terms of marketcap) but rich in others ways, such as the strength of our human community. Fuzzy exemplifies the spirit of BitShares giving back to individuals in the community, empowering them by matching their individual skills they have to offer with a potential source of revenue from the blockchain.

I think we need to stay focused on helping people help themselves through improving their skill sets and economic understanding of what it means to be an entrepreneur. If it's possible to teach people how to spot economic opportunities and how to apply their skills to capitalize on them, it's like teaching them how to fish and prepare them to eat as opposed to buying them a meal.

I am opposed to general welfare and grants of charity as an ongoing "solution" to poverty. Socialism doesn't work, the evidence for that has numerous examples. Yet many people expect a free lunch, a savior to "bail them out".

There's nothing wrong with short term help, financial or otherwise to help people overcome unforeseen circumstances that may lead them into a pit they can't get out of. Such help must only be seen as temporary and focused on getting the person back to a productive, self sufficient existence.

So again I ask, how will we help the average Joe get "back on his feet"? Vision statements are great to set high level goals, but we also need "lessor gods" to translate the vision into actionable reality.

+5%

Quote from: Empirical1.2 on December 29, 2015, 06:47:06 PM
I agree a vision is important and it's nice to see some examples and explanations of where MAS could go.

It seems premature to take what will be seen as another change on an untested idea and trying to mould BitShares around that vision.  Similar to Vote DAC, it's an area you're personally passionate about so I think have some confirmation bias when you receive a bit of positive feedback

If it's fairly simple to implement a basic one, I know some members have already expressed a willingness to make a financial commitment to it. So I would recommend attempting to launch a basic version and based on its popularity perhaps work some of those concepts more into a future vision.

As Xeroc pointed out even though it's titled 'BitShares vision' it's your personal vision and perhaps should be titled as such.

Articulating an overarching vision for BitShares may be a valuable exercise for some of the reasons you pointed out but it would be good if there was community involvement in creating something to that effect so that it has more community buy-in, resonates & is likely to be more widely popular.

This is a crucially important point aimed at you @bytemaster which I think you really need to meditate on. In another post you wrote you were not going to invest any more of your own money going forward in uncertain concepts. You contrasted your "new" perspective with the old, "If I build it they will come" attitude. That sounds like growth to me. This MAS seems like the old you calling you back.

I also think Empirical's admonition about differentiating the vision of Dan Larimer vs. BitShares is spot on as well. I love that you give us insight into your personal perspective, and I hope you don't stop. However, it should be categorized as separate and I think the dividing line gets blurred too often, which sends mixed signals to investors and those looking at BitShares for the first time.

Consider that input towards your new marketing "focus".

Quote from: Empirical1.2 on December 29, 2015, 06:47:06 PM
I agree a vision is important and it's nice to see some examples and explanations of where MAS could go.

It seems premature to take what will be seen as another change on an untested idea and trying to mould BitShares around that vision.  Similar to Vote DAC, it's an area you're personally passionate about so I think have some confirmation bias when you receive a bit of positive feedback

If it's fairly simple to implement a basic one, I know some members have already expressed a willingness to make a financial commitment to it. So I would recommend attempting to launch a basic version and based on its popularity perhaps work some of those concepts more into a future vision.

As Xeroc pointed out even though it's titled 'BitShares vision' it's your personal vision and perhaps should be titled as such.

Articulating an overarching vision for BitShares may be a valuable exercise for some of the reasons you pointed out but it would be good if there was community involvement in creating something to that effect so that it has more community buy-in, resonates & is likely to be more widely popular.

http://www.paulgraham.com/bias.html
https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2015/paul_grahams_bias_test.html

Initiating confusion, in 3,..2..1

I agree a vision is important and it's nice to see some examples and explanations of where MAS could go.

It seems premature to take what will be seen as another change on an untested idea and trying to mould BitShares around that vision.  Similar to Vote DAC, it's an area you're personally passionate about so I think have some confirmation bias when you receive a bit of positive feedback

If it's fairly simple to implement a basic one, I know some members have already expressed a willingness to make a financial commitment to it. So I would recommend attempting to launch a basic version and based on its popularity perhaps work some of those concepts more into a future vision.

As Xeroc pointed out even though it's titled 'BitShares vision' it's your personal vision and perhaps should be titled as such.

Articulating an overarching vision for BitShares may be a valuable exercise for some of the reasons you pointed out but it would be good if there was community involvement in creating something to that effect so that it has more community buy-in, resonates & is likely to be more widely popular.

MAS is one more reason to leave bitshares.  I will leave if MAS is worked on before bond market and orediction markets.  It's highly theoretical and will take more funding and resources than you estimate.  Why?  cause it's a reoccurring theme here when bitshares tries to implement somethjng anew and untested. 

It's an interesting challenge.

I fully agree with your perspectives regarding vision statements. Mission statements are similar.

I say your blog is challenging b/c it causes me to ask the question, how?

I myself am living below the poverty line (by American standards), yet I find ways to help others mostly by investing my time and skills, since I have very little actual capital. I am rich in many other ways however. 

BitShares is in a similar position, in that our ecosystem is poor (in terms of marketcap) but rich in others ways, such as the strength of our human community. Fuzzy exemplifies the spirit of BitShares giving back to individuals in the community, empowering them by matching their individual skills they have to offer with a potential source of revenue from the blockchain.

I think we need to stay focused on helping people help themselves through improving their skill sets and economic understanding of what it means to be an entrepreneur. If it's possible to teach people how to spot economic opportunities and how to apply their skills to capitalize on them, it's like teaching them how to fish and prepare them to eat as opposed to buying them a meal.

I am opposed to general welfare and grants of charity as an ongoing "solution" to poverty. Socialism doesn't work, the evidence for that has numerous examples. Yet many people expect a free lunch, a savior to "bail them out".

There's nothing wrong with short term help, financial or otherwise to help people overcome unforeseen circumstances that may lead them into a pit they can't get out of. Such help must only be seen as temporary and focused on getting the person back to a productive, self sufficient existence.

So again I ask, how will we help the average Joe get "back on his feet"? Vision statements are great to set high level goals, but we also need "lessor gods" to translate the vision into actionable reality.

I think you are way off base with this whole mutual aid society idea, especially when the dex is not completed.  This is another 180 degree turn just like the merger, only this one is not necessary.  Perhaps this is something to look into later once the dex is successful, but not now.

Its best to focus on these 4 things in 2016 to get the dex and smartcoin technology bootstrapped:

1)  Stealth
2)  Maker
3)  Lending (Bond) market
4)  Prediction market

This could probably all be achieved in 2016.  Whether through worker proposal, FBA, outside investment, or some other type of funding, this needs to happen.  Even if it has to be done through worker proposal and market cap takes a hit, it needs to be done.  Doing nothing or pivoting 180 degrees would be worse.

 +5%

http://bytemaster.github.io/update/2015/12/29/Why-Vision-Matters/