Some of you are ignoring that transfer does not mean only for money. It can include information, like messaging, communicating with iot, etc. High fees can remove these opportunities.

Can't a faucet page be made where new accounts can be created with no referrer and the user simply pays in Bitcoin and they can even sign up with a premium name from day one.

Quote from: yvv on January 31, 2016, 02:02:43 AM

Quote from: jakub on January 31, 2016, 01:06:30 AM


So to answer your question: no, there is no way to create a new account and skip the referral fee.
The referral program would not make sense, if there was a way to avoid paying the referral fee.

So, I need to pay to ccedk (or fav or whoever) at least $80 just because I was signed up by them? Thanks a lot, I am going to skip this. And good luck with such a "smart" marketing.

Let's try to reach a compromise..
If you like, I can register a new name for you, and if you upgrade it to LTM, I'll return you 15000 BTS. Deal?

Quote from: alt on January 31, 2016, 01:39:32 AM
do you believe BTS can earn more money from special service?
some service like register short account, upgrade account, create UIA, active a market for UIA
somebody have asked with low transfer fee, why people upgrade account?
we can give more features to VIP account, such as normal users can't create UIA, display a gold color name for VIP  in the web site...

Give a business plan at least revenue/profit analysis please? Who are the targeted users? How much will they pay for the "special service"?

* register short account, upgrade account, create UIA: these are already there, we can find whether they are profitable via data analysis.
* active a market for UIA: It's free now, so there is no complaint. Once you started charging fee, why do you think there will be no complaint? To start charging this fee we need development, will it worth fund via dilution? Data analysis please.
* normal users can't create UIA: currently fee of UIA registration is 5000, which means 1000 for LTM, so users are already motivated to upgrade to LTM. Imo it's more flexible than disabling something.
* display a gold color name for VIP  in the web site: good idea. On CryptoFresh LTMs are displayed with a lightning icon, it's very cool. But on OpenLedger LTM shows with no difference to normal users. @svk can we have this feature?

Thank you for the suggestions. Very helpful.

Quote
and can you give you answer for this questions:
forget about referal program, withou this program, what's the fees you prefer for transfer?

Sorry, I don't know.

Quote
All I want to say is we should give a low fee for basic service, earn money from special service
and the referal program can run better,
actually no conflics between low transfer fees and refreal program.

Quote from: jakub on January 31, 2016, 01:29:22 AM

Quote from: alt on January 31, 2016, 01:09:02 AM
means reference should get payment from BTS company, not from BTS users.

And where does the BTS company take this money from, if not from fees earned on users?

Quote from: alt on January 31, 2016, 01:09:02 AM
if you sold at price 200, we call that ponzi.

No, we call it sales margin.
All existing products have this, unless you have a way to buy straight from the factory that produces it.

Look, the referral program is meant to incentivize business around BitShares.
The ecosystem has benefits from that (e.g. we would not have Open Ledger fiat gateway without this incentive).
But somebody has to pay for it and no matter how we try to arrange things, it's always the end user who pays the bill.

Quote from: yvv on January 31, 2016, 02:02:43 AM

Quote from: jakub on January 31, 2016, 01:06:30 AM


So to answer your question: no, there is no way to create a new account and skip the referral fee.
The referral program would not make sense, if there was a way to avoid paying the referral fee.

So, I need to pay to ccedk (or fav or whoever) at least $80 just because I was signed up by them? Thanks a lot, I am going to skip this. And good luck with such a "smart" marketing.

But over time, you realize savings on every transaction you make and eventually you end up saving more than the $100 you paid to become a lifetime member!

Quote from: clayop on January 31, 2016, 02:02:43 AM
Transwiser is the only fiat-to-smartcoin gateway that is also used by other 3rd party services, like btc38. You don't think this is important?

Not important enought to let them destroy bts. What does Transwiser want? to increase their profits/customers short term at the expense of bts? If the referal program goes away bts is DEAD, DEADCan't you guys see that?

Another change of this magnitude to the rules and we are done, no need to mention about the halt to every work/development that will follow. Find another way to solve your problems and leave the referal program alone.

Quote from: Akado on January 31, 2016, 12:24:25 AM

Quote from: yvv on January 31, 2016, 12:13:32 AM

Quote from: Akado on January 30, 2016, 11:43:35 PM
I believe you only pay to your registrar. Check accounts on cryptofresh, if they have something like "Registrar   openledger-reg", they were registered trough Openledger so they pay them. If you use the lightclient I believe you don't, however you might not have a faucet to register it so you'll need someone to send you the initial bts. I'm not sure though, give it a try.

Let me ask a simple question again. If I created an account through openledger, and I don't want to use their service anymore for my reasons, why the fuck I still need to pay fees to them? This is bullshit. Bitshares transaction fees should be paid to network. Business should charge separate fees for using their service. And if community wants to support ccedk or other business, this should be done through worker proposals voted by shareholders, or by crowdfund tokens, or by whatever, but not through this shitty referral. This does not bring new users in, this distracts them.

by using the web wallet you're already using their service. If you don't want to, use the light client with a different account. What's the problem?

@clayop how can people take that into account if he hasn't shown a business plan yet? You claim he knows a lot of people, celebrities and exchanges, well, why doesn't he present BitShares with a plan on how he plans to use those to grow the platform? Then maybe people would consider. As it is, it doesn't make any sense because people have nothing to judge. OpenLedger at least, as simple as it might seem, as presented us with something.

Where's bitcrab's plan then? What does he intend to do? How does he intend getting more users? What plan can he shows us that his business model can outcompete OpenLedger? That way people might consider him. Until then, they won't.

I'm little surprised by your ignorance.
Transwiser is the only fiat-to-smartcoin gateway that is also used by other 3rd party services, like btc38. You don't think this is important?

Quote from: jakub on January 31, 2016, 01:06:30 AM


So to answer your question: no, there is no way to create a new account and skip the referral fee.
The referral program would not make sense, if there was a way to avoid paying the referral fee.

So, I need to pay to ccedk (or fav or whoever) at least $80 just because I was signed up by them? Thanks a lot, I am going to skip this. And good luck with such a "smart" marketing.

do you believe BTS can earn more money from special service?
some service like register short account, upgrade account, create UIA, active a market for UIA
somebody have asked with low transfer fee, why people upgrade account?
we can give more features to VIP account, such as normal users can't create UIA, display a gold color name for VIP  in the web site...

and can you give you answer for this questions:
forget about referal program, withou this program, what's the fees you prefer for transfer?

All I want to say is we should give a low fee for basic service, earn money from special service
and the referal program can run better,
actually no conflics between low transfer fees and refreal program.

Quote from: jakub on January 31, 2016, 01:29:22 AM

Quote from: alt on January 31, 2016, 01:09:02 AM
means reference should get payment from BTS company, not from BTS users.

And where does the BTS company take this money from, if not from fees earned on users?

Quote from: alt on January 31, 2016, 01:09:02 AM
if you sold at price 200, we call that ponzi.

No, we call it sales margin.
All existing products have this, unless you have a way to buy straight from the factory that produces it.

Look, the referral program is meant to incentivize business around BitShares.
The ecosystem has benefits from that (e.g. we would not have Open Ledger fiat gateway without this incentive).
But somebody has to pay for it and no matter how we try to arrange things, it's always the end user who pays the bill.

Quote from: alt on January 31, 2016, 01:09:02 AM
means reference should get payment from BTS company, not from BTS users.

And where does the BTS company take this money from, if not from fees earned on users?

Quote from: alt on January 31, 2016, 01:09:02 AM
if you sold at price 200, we call that ponzi.

No, we call it sales margin.
All existing products have this, unless you have a way to buy straight from the factory that produces it.

Look, the referral program is meant to incentivize business around BitShares.
The ecosystem has benefits from that (e.g. we would not have Open Ledger fiat gateway without this incentive).
But somebody has to pay for it and no matter how we try to arrange things, it's always the end user who pays the bill.

Quote from: yvv on January 31, 2016, 12:55:16 AM

Quote from: Akado on January 31, 2016, 12:24:25 AM

by using the web wallet you're already using their service. If you don't want to, use the light client with a different account. What's the problem?

Whats a problem? Are you kidding me? If I use a service once and then should pay fees forever is not a problem? Or am I missing something and there is a way to make account without being referred by ccedk or somebody else?

it's reasonable if you pay the same fees with or without reference program
means reference should get payment from BTS company, not from BTS users.

If you want  sold me a product value 100 USD.
you should sold at price 100 USD,
you can't sold me at price 200 USD because of you use a refrence sell network.
if you sold at price 200, we call that ponzi.

Quote from: yvv on January 31, 2016, 12:55:16 AM

Quote from: Akado on January 31, 2016, 12:24:25 AM

by using the web wallet you're already using their service. If you don't want to, use the light client with a different account. What's the problem?

Whats a problem? Are you kidding me? If I use a service once and then should pay fees forever is not a problem? Or am I missing something and there is a way to make account without being referred by ccedk or somebody else?

If you don't have a BitShares account yet, then the very first account you need to create with somebody else as your referrer.

Then you can upgrade this first account to LTM and once you do that, you achieve two things:
(1) you become your own referrer, so effectively you cut off the original referrer
(2) you are free to create further accounts being your own referrer

So to answer your question: no, there is no way to create a new account and skip the referral fee.
The referral program would not make sense, if there was a way to avoid paying the referral fee.

Quote from: Akado on January 31, 2016, 12:24:25 AM

by using the web wallet you're already using their service. If you don't want to, use the light client with a different account. What's the problem?

Whats a problem? Are you kidding me? If I use a service once and then should pay fees forever is not a problem? Or am I missing something and there is a way to make account without being referred by ccedk or somebody else?

Quote from: abit on January 31, 2016, 12:29:32 AM

Quote from: alt on January 31, 2016, 12:17:39 AM
and still nobody answer my question:
1. what's the fee if we don't have this referral program?
2. should the fee change much because of the referral program? why?

Quote from: alt on January 28, 2016, 02:32:27 PM
good point
we need to ask ourselves a question: what's the fee if we don't have this referral program?
and another question: should the fee change much because of the referral program? why?
In my opinion, transfer fees and trade fees should as low as posible,
because  we need more active users, and good liquility.
the value of users/liquility is much more valuable than the poor transfer fees
and I guess referral program can work even more better with low transfer/trade fee,
we can got more fees for special service, such as issue an asset, active asset's market, upgrade account ....

A good practice for those who hate the referral program: introduce others to register via your faucet and referral link, and reimburse them the 80% fees paid by them (to you). You won't feel guilty anymore. If you want to cover some costs of doing so, reimburse less, for example 79.9%.

Do something please, don't just complain.

yes I am not a person who just complained of course,
I will ask share holders to vote for low transfer fees.

and it's not a complain, it's a discuss, althrough I know most people don't like to think.

Quote from: Akado on January 31, 2016, 12:24:25 AM
Where's bitcrab's plan then? What does he intend to do? How does he intend getting more users? What plan can he shows us that his business model can outcompete OpenLedger? That way people might consider him. Until then, they won't.

what bitcrab have done for BTS?
he is the fiat gateway for bitCNY
look at bitCNY and bitUSD market, it's bitcrab  who make bitCNY peg CNY more better.
he had develop a whole system,  exchange from bitCNY to fiatCNY automaticly.
and he never asked for 1 BTS from community.
before bitcrab, gulu is the gateway for fiatCNY, but his business is manual, bad user experience, and community have give a 100% delegate to  sponsor gulu.

also, bitcrab have ask btc38 to accept bitCNY, TCNY
he have ask yunbi to accept bitCNY also, but had been refused, because they don't want to spent more time for BTS, they have lose interesting for BTS.

and bitcrab have try to find a USD fiat gateway
and maybe many other things I don't know