Quote from: pc on November 10, 2019, 12:56:14 PM

Quote from: tonyniu352 on November 10, 2019, 08:27:47 AM
BTS system which is an already degraded and failed cryptocurrency system.

If you think that, why are you still here?

Failure is always the night before dawn,by which success follows.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on November 10, 2019, 08:27:47 AM
BTS system which is an already degraded and failed cryptocurrency system.

If you think that, why are you still here?

Quote from: tonyniu352 on November 10, 2019, 08:27:47 AM

Quote from: R

Why do you believe it's a bad idea? Please elaborate rather than mock/besmirch the idea; without elaboration it's difficult to lend credibility to your claims.

Cn-vote now has nearly 700 agents, at least 700 people believe  this is an ass idea.

Why? Please direct them to the github pull request for them to voice their individual views - the more the merrier. Just calling it an "ass idea" lends little credibility to your disapproval.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on November 10, 2019, 08:27:47 AM

Quote from: R
BSIP83 isn't about refund400k, it's about the actions leading up to the premature implementation of BSIP76 AFAIK (see: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29659.msg336083#msg336083 ).

BSIP83 doesn't propose to change refund400k nor existing dev worker proposals, so you've misunderstood the BSIP.

Everyone understands what the actual purpose of this BSIP is, and you don't have to cover it up.

I'm not the author nor any form of BSIP83 conspirator; what do you believe its' actual purpose is & what do you feel is being covered up? Please do elaborate & comment in github too 👍

Quote from: R

Why do you believe it's a bad idea? Please elaborate rather than mock/besmirch the idea; without elaboration it's difficult to lend credibility to your claims.

Cn-vote now has nearly 700 agents, at least 700 people believe  this is an ass idea.

Quote from: R
BSIP83 isn't about refund400k, it's about the actions leading up to the premature implementation of BSIP76 AFAIK (see: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29659.msg336083#msg336083 ).

BSIP83 doesn't propose to change refund400k nor existing dev worker proposals, so you've misunderstood the BSIP.

Everyone understands what the actual purpose of this BSIP is, and you don't have to cover it up.

Quote from: R
The spirit of many is being broken by refund400k, BSIP76 and the totalitarian attitude of cn-vote members. Frankly I'm surprised more aren't up in arms against such behaviour which continues to degrade Bitshares.

I understand your position as many people do not own BTS or have only a small amount of BTS and will not easily get a large amount of founded money from a BTS system which is an already degraded and failed cryptocurrency system.

Quote from: 小宁大大 on October 29, 2019, 03:02:38 PM
Bsip83 should not exist

Well it does, you can't will BSIPs out of existence - comment on the PR and/or vote when the time comes.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 30, 2019, 12:12:13 AM
I have checked bsip83. Does anyone really think it will be approved?

Sure, many support voting to approve it. Whether or not it'll be approved shouldn't be a factor in whether a BSIP is merged into the BSIP repo.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 30, 2019, 12:12:13 AM
transfering bts voting right to another token? it is ass idea.

Why do you believe it's a bad idea? Please elaborate rather than mock/besmirch the idea; without elaboration it's difficult to lend credibility to your claims.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 30, 2019, 12:12:13 AM
Frankly, BTS has been runned for five or six years, and some people are trying to change voting rights now,just because BTS holders are complaining more and more about expenses of workers?

BSIP83 isn't about refund400k, it's about the actions leading up to the premature implementation of BSIP76 AFAIK (see: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29659.msg336083#msg336083 ).

BSIP83 doesn't propose to change refund400k nor existing dev worker proposals, so you've misunderstood the BSIP.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 30, 2019, 12:12:13 AM
i worry about the professional spirit of these guys.

The spirit of many is being broken by refund400k, BSIP76 and the totalitarian attitude of cn-vote members. Frankly I'm surprised more aren't up in arms against such behaviour which continues to degrade Bitshares.

Quote from: ljk424 on October 30, 2019, 03:27:04 PM
I think you are right. Some people want to deprive bts holders of their voting rights.It's really shameful.

Except by getting an airdrop of an equal amount of voting tokens they have an equal amount of voting rights, so nobody will be deprived of their voting rights.

Quote from: twitter on October 30, 2019, 01:01:26 AM
Bsip83 is trying to rape bts holders.

What a grotesque statement, you degrade your standing in the community speaking so ugly.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on November 02, 2019, 01:58:41 PM
Yes, i forgot that I could get an  airdrop of ass.management tokens.

Very witty 🙄

sorry for the wrong cost number of last year, correction done

Quote from: pc on October 30, 2019, 04:07:54 PM



The PR had seen much discussion over a period of two weeks. Many comments from various parties were addressed. No further comments were received for two days before the merge.

Compare this with BSIP-76, which was created, approved and merged within 17 hours. Community comments were completely ignored.

The worker's work includes writing bsip,review bsip has been paid,but it is not paid for BTS holder to review these bsip. the BTS holder should review every bsip, but in practice, the BTS holders always trust the development team, therefore ,in the past, not every bsip was reviewed carefully by most bts holders. How could bts holders believe  such a significant voting change would be quietly merged into a BSIP as a minor correction? And this is happened not once recently. This reminds us, maybe, it is good to set up a review worker(or regulatory worker), This will allow some professional people to do these things.

Quote from: pc on October 27, 2019, 02:00:29 PM

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 27, 2019, 09:58:37 AM
Observation1: The administrative authority is fully decentralized and in the hands of the users (BTS token holders) by voting method, the voting is to reflect the will of the majority and make decisions according to the majority.

That's the way it *should* be. However, the truth is that a single person is refusing others the right to propose changes and have the community vote for it. https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/pull/249

tl;dr: Some members of the Core Team have (on their own time) discussed the recently observed governance problems, and have come up with a proposal that tries to rectify the situation. After some discussion and various amendments, the proposal was merged last friday. Shortly thereafter, the proposal was reverted single-handedly by an individual. Furthermore, said individual has removed write access to the BSIPs repository for most members of the Core Team.

It is noteworthy that the management of the BSIP process is explicitly listed as a task in the Core Worker Proposal, which was voted on and accepted by the community.

It is also noteworthy that the same individual who is now complaining about said BSIP pushed through a different proposal without any discussion just a couple of weeks ago.

Decentralization my ass.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 27, 2019, 09:58:37 AM
Observation2: Any attempts to modify the BTS voting mechanism e.g. removing debt voting are illegal, and shall be stop.

This is not an observation, it's an opinion. Others may disagree.

It's a argument in your core team, not about centralization or decentralization. From my point of view, your story could be described as another way, someone of the Core Team strongly disagreed with this BSIP (or disagreed with some idea in this BSIP), but other members of the team  ignored his opinion and try to enforce merge.  "someone' considered that the BSIP was so ridiculous , then he decided to interrupt the process of the BSIP, in order to avoid the whole team being a laughing stock.

Quote from: bench on October 30, 2019, 12:20:07 PM

Quote from: twitter on October 30, 2019, 01:01:26 AM
Bsip83 is trying to rape bts holders.

No, BSIP83 tries to separate the BitShares core management from the bitAssets management, to improve governance and reduce shit show.
The value of BTS is not reduced, but new value is generated with bitAsset.management (e.g. MAKER).
Nobody has a disadvantage, because every BTS holder gets the same amount of bitAsset.management tokens.

Your arguments?

in short , it is "TRANSFERING BTS VOTING RIGHT TO OTHER TOKEN".  Is there anything I missed? Yes, i forgot that I could get an  airdrop of ass.management tokens.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 27, 2019, 09:58:37 AM
Observation4: It is necessary to introduce some enhanced feed price algorithm in bitshares, so as to resist price manipulation due to shorting and improve the price recovery ability of BTS.

I agree here, a new concept for price feeds is needed.

Price feeds based on different EMAs and smartcoin market metrics showed the best performance so far.  A new baips is in the work for this.

Quote from: Thul3 on October 30, 2019, 03:17:28 PM
Wasn't it merged to early ?

No. The reason for reverting it was https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/pull/238#issuecomment-546452565

Quote
Transferring voting rights from BTS to another token is not acceptable and should never be an option. PR reverted.

The PR had seen much discussion over a period of two weeks. Many comments from various parties were addressed. No further comments were received for two days before the merge.

Compare this with BSIP-76, which was created, approved and merged within 17 hours. Community comments were completely ignored.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 30, 2019, 12:12:13 AM

Quote from: pc on October 27, 2019, 02:00:29 PM

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 27, 2019, 09:58:37 AM
Observation1: The administrative authority is fully decentralized and in the hands of the users (BTS token holders) by voting method, the voting is to reflect the will of the majority and make decisions according to the majority.

That's the way it *should* be. However, the truth is that a single person is refusing others the right to propose changes and have the community vote for it. https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/pull/249

tl;dr: Some members of the Core Team have (on their own time) discussed the recently observed governance problems, and have come up with a proposal that tries to rectify the situation. After some discussion and various amendments, the proposal was merged last friday. Shortly thereafter, the proposal was reverted single-handedly by an individual. Furthermore, said individual has removed write access to the BSIPs repository for most members of the Core Team.

It is noteworthy that the management of the BSIP process is explicitly listed as a task in the Core Worker Proposal, which was voted on and accepted by the community.

It is also noteworthy that the same individual who is now complaining about said BSIP pushed through a different proposal without any discussion just a couple of weeks ago.

Decentralization my ass.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 27, 2019, 09:58:37 AM
Observation2: Any attempts to modify the BTS voting mechanism e.g. removing debt voting are illegal, and shall be stop.

This is not an observation, it's an opinion. Others may disagree.

I have checked bsip83. Does anyone really think it will be approved? transfering bts voting right to another token? it is ass idea. Frankly, BTS has been runned for five or six years, and some people are trying to change voting rights now,just because BTS holders are complaining more and more about expenses of workers?  i worry about the professional spirit of these guys.

I think you are right. Some people want to deprive bts holders of their voting rights.It's really shameful.

Quote from: pc on October 30, 2019, 01:48:09 PM

Quote from: 小宁大大 on October 29, 2019, 03:02:38 PM
Bsip83 should not exist

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 30, 2019, 12:12:13 AM
I have checked bsip83. it is ass idea.

Quote from: twitter on October 30, 2019, 01:01:26 AM
Bsip83 is trying to rape bts holders. 

Regardless of what you think about BSIP-83, an organization that calls itself "decentralized" cannot allow a single person to control the voting.

Wasn't it merged to early ?

Quote from: 小宁大大 on October 29, 2019, 03:02:38 PM
Bsip83 should not exist

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 30, 2019, 12:12:13 AM
I have checked bsip83. it is ass idea.

Quote from: twitter on October 30, 2019, 01:01:26 AM
Bsip83 is trying to rape bts holders. 

Regardless of what you think about BSIP-83, an organization that calls itself "decentralized" cannot allow a single person to control the voting.

Quote from: tonyniu352 on October 30, 2019, 12:12:13 AM
Frankly, BTS has been runned for five or six years, and some people are trying to change voting rights now,just because BTS holders are complaining more and more about expenses of workers?

We change only voteing rights for bitAssets, because BTS is now abused for this. Because we know now better, than 5 years ago, changes are needed for governance.

Quote from: twitter on October 30, 2019, 01:01:26 AM
Bsip83 is trying to rape bts holders.

No, BSIP83 tries to separate the BitShares core management from the bitAssets management, to improve governance and reduce shit show.
The value of BTS is not reduced, but new value is generated with bitAsset.management (e.g. MAKER).
Nobody has a disadvantage, because every BTS holder gets the same amount of bitAsset.management tokens.

Your arguments?