Quote from: luckybit on March 01, 2014, 12:01:43 PM

The way Bitshares are designed, if it's actually deflationary like I think, then we should be putting every penny we have into BitUSD. BitUSD is more stable than the US dollar at holding value and there is no volatility. It makes sense to put as much money as you can into BitUSD to preserve your profit. If you want to speculate Bitshares will allow for that too.

Bitshares will get better as an investment as it becomes more popular and you can lock your profits in forever in BitUSD.

Why would anyone bother with USD anymore, BitUSD is ok if there is no inflation in USD, also there is BitBTC with no inflation in BTC (after all mined out).

If you go long with BitBTC you get  +5% BTC which is in my opinion way way better than  +5% USD

Quote from: luckybit on March 01, 2014, 12:17:26 PM

Quote from: Graffenwalder on March 01, 2014, 12:13:40 PM

QuoteThe only mistake is they went with BitUSD instead of BitEuro because a lot of people don't care about the dollar. It might have been a good idea to add more currencies than just BitUSD so that we could store our profit in the Euro.

The first chain includes all major currencies right? Biteuro, bityen etc

I don't think it does. I believe it's just BitUSD but maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong? If it includes all the major currencies then I could see everyone around the world putting their profits into Bitshares. If you earn money from Bitcoin going up against the dollar instead of cashing out you can buy Bitshares and store it in BitUSD. There is no reason to ever cash out anymore and that is a game changer if nothing else is.

The only reason for people to cash out would be to pay taxes or pay for things which require fiat currency. You don't have to cash out to lock in your profits.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1696.0

Quotestruct asset
  {
      enum type
      {
          bts      = 0,  // 1 BitShare (smallest storable unit)
          btc      = 1,
          gld      = 2,
          slv      = 3,
          usd      = 4,  // $0.001 = 1 BitUSD
          count, // TODO: move this to the end, for now this will shorten print statements
          cny      = 5,
          gbp      = 6,
          eur      = 7,
          jpy      = 8,  // Japan Yen
          chf      = 9,  // Swiss Frank #5 world currency
          aud      = 10, // Austrialia
          cad      = 11, // Canada
          sek      = 12, // Sweedish Krona
          hkd      = 13, // Hong Kong
          wti      = 14, // Light Sweet Crude Oil
          iii      = 15, // value of 1 of 1 billion shares in Invictus Innovations, Inc
      };
   }

Quote from: Graffenwalder on March 01, 2014, 12:13:40 PM

QuoteThe only mistake is they went with BitUSD instead of BitEuro because a lot of people don't care about the dollar. It might have been a good idea to add more currencies than just BitUSD so that we could store our profit in the Euro.

The first chain includes all major currencies right? Biteuro, bityen etc

I don't think it does. I believe it's just BitUSD but maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong? If it includes all the major currencies then I could see everyone around the world putting their profits into Bitshares. If you earn money from Bitcoin going up against the dollar instead of cashing out you can buy Bitshares and store it in BitUSD. There is no reason to ever cash out anymore and that is a game changer if nothing else is.

The only reason for people to cash out would be to pay taxes or pay for things which require fiat currency. You don't have to cash out to lock in your profits.

QuoteThe only mistake is they went with BitUSD instead of BitEuro because a lot of people don't care about the dollar. It might have been a good idea to add more currencies than just BitUSD so that we could store our profit in the Euro.

The first chain includes all major currencies right? Biteuro, bityen etc

It does kind of seem to me that PTS was supposed to crash to this level, just based on the charts. The structure of the history of the PTS price has its own force, no? All the chart traders out there.

Quote from: Kenof on March 01, 2014, 11:08:44 AM
if price of PTS is now around 8$, and yesterday was around 15$, does that mean that 1.29 BTS = 7$ and 1BTS ~ 5.4$ if my math is correct

yesterday  => today
1PTS 15$  => 1PTS 8$ + 1.29BTS 7$ = 15$

no value is created nor destroyed

Value is created and destroyed because it's all in our mind and thinking. What you mean is energy isn't created or destroyed. That is not the same as value.

So if we change our minds or if we learn new infomation, we can change the value of anything or destroy the value of anything. What doesn't change is the imprint it leaves.

All actions are forever.

The best way to get an estimate of the price is to look at what people are pricing it at on this forum. It's between $100-1000 as a consensus and most people swing toward $500-1000.

But that consensus is how much we think it's worth, how much we actually sell for depends on the other opportunities that exist. Some people might sell some Bitshares to invest in something else, or just to pay their bills. Personally I wouldn't do something so silly but some people might.

The way Bitshares are designed, if it's actually deflationary like I think, then we should be putting every penny we have into BitUSD. BitUSD is more stable than the US dollar at holding value and there is no volatility. It makes sense to put as much money as you can into BitUSD to preserve your profit. If you want to speculate Bitshares will allow for that too.

I think of Bitshares as the perfect stock. It's an even better investment than Asicminer was because Asicminer was only good until difficulty caught up with it. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ejcul/6k_invested_in_the_asicminer_ipo_would_value_12m/

Bitshares will get better as an investment as it becomes more popular and you can lock your profits in forever in BitUSD.

The only mistake is they went with BitUSD exclusively. There are a lot of other currencies like the Euro for example. I suppose they went with the world reserve currency for a reason.

if price of PTS is now around 8$, and yesterday was around 15$, does that mean that 1.29 BTS = 7$ and 1BTS ~ 5.4$ if my math is correct

yesterday  => today
1PTS 15$  => 1PTS 8$ + 1.29BTS 7$ = 15$

no value is created nor destroyed

Quote from: MrJeans on February 25, 2014, 11:48:49 PM

Quote from: MrJeans on February 25, 2014, 09:52:03 PM
Yep watched the video, just having trouble with some of the concepts.
I'm getting it now. Please speak some more on below. THANKS!

Quote from: clout on February 25, 2014, 07:40:31 PM
secondly because I accrue more bts from the fact that the bitAsset requires less bts to back it.

EDIT: spent some time mulling this over and reading 'bookie bob's solution to bitcoin volatility'. Think I get it now.

So if you short say bitUSD and bitsharesX goes up in value you will start owning more of the bitsharesX that previously belonged to the person who bought long on bitUSD (because they will need less bitsharesX to back up the same value of the amount of bitUSD they own).

So if you use 200% collateral to short bitUSD and the price of bitsharesX drops by 50%  you would then be forced to use all of your collateral to buy back the bitUSD and destroy it, correct? In such a case one would loose all the bitsharesX that was put into making the short position?

Exactly.

Quote from: MrJeans on February 25, 2014, 09:52:03 PM
Yep watched the video, just having trouble with some of the concepts.
I'm getting it now. Please speak some more on below. THANKS!

Quote from: clout on February 25, 2014, 07:40:31 PM
secondly because I accrue more bts from the fact that the bitAsset requires less bts to back it.

EDIT: spent some time mulling this over and reading 'bookie bob's solution to bitcoin volatility'. Think I get it now.

So if you short say bitUSD and bitsharesX goes up in value you will start owning more of the bitsharesX that previously belonged to the person who bought long on bitUSD (because they will need less bitsharesX to back up the same value of the amount of bitUSD they own).

So if you use 200% collateral to short bitUSD and the price of bitsharesX drops by 50%  you would then be forced to use all of your collateral to buy back the bitUSD and destroy it, correct? In such a case one would loose all the bitsharesX that was put into making the short position?

Yep watched the video, just having trouble with some of the concepts.
I'm getting it now. Please speak some more on below. THANKS!

Quote from: clout on February 25, 2014, 07:40:31 PM
secondly because I accrue more bts from the fact that the bitAsset requires less bts to back it.

Quote from: MrJeans on February 25, 2014, 04:49:22 PM
+5% for your whole post.
Please elaborate on below

Quote from: clout on February 25, 2014, 03:52:14 PM
I for one plan on shorting as many bitAssets as possible to accumulate more bitshares and I do not plan on selling any of my bitshares until the market cap exceeds $20 billion.

You should refer to the introductory bitshares video if you do not understand my point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g

Essentially if am short a bitAsset and the price of bitshares goes up relative to that bitAssets, my profit is two fold: Firstly the value of the bts that I have used as collateral go ups and secondly because I accrue more bts from the fact that the bitAsset requires less bts to back it. In the opposite scenario in which the bitAsset appreciates in value relative to bts I lose proportionately to the profit that I would have made in the first scenario. There is a great risk in shorting bitAssets, but there is also a substantial and profitable reward.

Quote from: trader on February 25, 2014, 04:57:58 PM

Quote from: clout on February 25, 2014, 03:52:14 PM
I for one plan on shorting as many bitAssets as possible to accumulate more bitshares and I do not plan on selling any of my bitshares until the market cap exceeds $20 billion.

Perhaps you should consider hedging your portfolio and going long on BitGold :)

The only way to hedge is to hold bitshares. Why would I go long on an asset that derives its value from a potentially valueless commodity?

I don't think it should be in accordance with the measured in dollars, should be measured by the value of BTC, more than the value of BTC should also is 2 years ;D

Quote from: clout on February 25, 2014, 03:52:14 PM
I for one plan on shorting as many bitAssets as possible to accumulate more bitshares and I do not plan on selling any of my bitshares until the market cap exceeds $20 billion.

Perhaps you should consider hedging your portfolio and going long on BitGold :)

 +5% for your whole post.
Please elaborate on below

Quote from: clout on February 25, 2014, 03:52:14 PM
I for one plan on shorting as many bitAssets as possible to accumulate more bitshares and I do not plan on selling any of my bitshares until the market cap exceeds $20 billion.