Quote from: sumantso on March 13, 2014, 05:54:50 AM

Quote from: bytemaster on March 13, 2014, 12:10:53 AM
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem.   Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.

In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.

You can break up that 500 PTS and send out as transaction fees. That alone should be enough to tide over the problem; not to mention will also generate a buzz.

With only 20% left to mine, it doesn't seem worth the trouble to hard fork it. Even if you do, if you are just paying to implement KGW, then 500 PTS sounds a lot (though the challenges may be different 'coz this is not just any scrypt coin, and so maybe worth it).

A hard fork is a lot of effort & support to do RIGHT.   

Quote from: bytemaster on March 13, 2014, 12:10:53 AM
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem.   Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.

In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.

You can break up that 500 PTS and send out as transaction fees. That alone should be enough to tide over the problem; not to mention will also generate a buzz.

With only 20% left to mine, it doesn't seem worth the trouble to hard fork it. Even if you do, if you are just paying to implement KGW, then 500 PTS sounds a lot (though the challenges may be different 'coz this is not just any scrypt coin, and so maybe worth it).

Quote from: bytemaster on March 13, 2014, 12:10:53 AM
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem.   Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.

In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.

No worries timewarp bug is already in there from btc 0.8.5 base...

Can we use the testnet to test the new algo?

Checkpoints and algo done...

Quote from: bytemaster on March 13, 2014, 12:10:53 AM
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem.   Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.

In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.

+5%

Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem.   Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.

In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.

Quote from: maqifrnswa on March 12, 2014, 05:27:34 PM
another interesting academic question... PTS is different than any other altcoin. If every miner in the world suddenly stops mining PTS, it still has value. PTS, at that point, has become just like AGS. An untradeable asset that represents a share in future I3 DACs.

If every miner in the world stops mining litecoin, it becomes worthless. PTS is different.

not sure if the time travel patch was implemented. if it wasnt, i will gladly prove you wrong by attcking the chain, simply reversing to the checkpoint block and branching off with static difficulty applied for blocks up till the very latest, then i raise the difficulty and pass the current block number at a raised diificulty, continued mining pushes me a hundred blocks ahead, then poof...your wallet is empty an i have the longest chain.

even if the fix is applied later, the sheer amount of dumping i would have done will irreversibly devalue PTS. ask TRC holders, they thought they were safe, and they were tethered to the BTC chain, yet they still got a huge kick in the ***

Quote from: bytemaster on March 12, 2014, 05:14:35 PM
Our options are:
1) Hard fork and forcing everyone to upgrade
2) Get products out there and increase the value of PTS
3) Wait it out.

The hard fork option is likely to take a week of our time dealing with support, testing, etc.   
The solution for those who want to see their transactions to go through faster is to pay more for it.   This will reward those who do mine and if enough people randomly tip miners then they will start to factor that in.

Worst case:  the PTS chain completely freezes because no one mines.   They still have value, they are just less liquid until their value increases.   Our preferred approach is to maximize our time spent increasing their value.

increasing the value is a priority, but if the chain freezes up or slow down any further it may  actually devalue it further. While they are not strictly an alt, PTs still utilizes PoW and is blockchain dependent. trying to act like it is not, burying our heads in the sand just wont cut it and endangers our investment. the chain should move at a rate that is acceptable.

If you get someone like Freetrade to do it or anyone who has the time, it will take a max of three days. in a week everyone that visits the forums and the exchanges will have the version.

option 3 is a non starter

two is good but works well with 1 already implemented.

Quote from: sfinder on March 12, 2014, 05:18:35 PM

Quote from: barwizi on March 12, 2014, 05:03:47 PM

1) PTS is de-valuing

it is a good thing for new investor

Quote from: barwizi on March 12, 2014, 05:03:47 PM

2) the difficulty WILL kill PTS if it's not addressed.

you will see another gold rush when 3I announce new snapshot.
the only concern is 51% attack but it is unlikely happened due to worthless to do so.

Quote from: barwizi on March 12, 2014, 05:03:47 PM

3) Trust and confidence will die if this is not addressed in a timely fashion.

that is fine for long term investor. we all agreed it take time to complete a solid decentralized trading platform

all you are thinking of is BTSX, thats why i don't really feel like engaging in an argument. if you are failing to see the broad picture, i'm too lazy to start explaining why PTS is key in Invictus plans for these future snapshots you want so much...btw unless something drastic happens, dont expect one any time this quarter.

Quote from: toast on March 12, 2014, 05:16:18 PM
How would a catastrophic fork happen if the difficulty is so high miners can barely make an honest chain?
edit: derp nvm ignore that ^^

Quote2) the difficulty WILL kill PTS if it's not addressed.

I guess I still don't understand this argument. Time between blocks will increase to longer than one day or something? Actually it'd be useful to know exactly how much minimum mining power the network needs to keep block times under 1 day

you'll understand when it says 39 months to retarget.

another interesting academic question... PTS is different than any other altcoin. If every miner in the world suddenly stops mining PTS, it still has value. PTS, at that point, has become just like AGS. An untradeable asset that represents a share in future I3 DACs.

If every miner in the world stops mining litecoin, it becomes worthless. PTS is different.

EDIT: of course, it is more valuable if it is tradeable. But it is not valueless.

Why fork a chain that is almost done? There is like 22% of the 2 Mil remaining and then it's pretty much Proof of Stake at that point right? How does making it faster to mine the remaining shares help us long term? I'm not trolling, please help me understand what I am missing.

Quote from: barwizi on March 12, 2014, 05:03:47 PM

1) PTS is de-valuing

it is a good thing for new investor

Quote from: barwizi on March 12, 2014, 05:03:47 PM

2) the difficulty WILL kill PTS if it's not addressed.

you will see another gold rush when 3I announce new snapshot.
the only concern is 51% attack but it is unlikely happened due to worthless to do so.

Quote from: barwizi on March 12, 2014, 05:03:47 PM

3) Trust and confidence will die if this is not addressed in a timely fashion.

that is fine for long term investor. we all agreed it take time to complete a solid decentralized trading platform

How would a catastrophic fork happen if the difficulty is so high miners can barely make an honest chain?
edit: derp nvm ignore that ^^

Quote2) the difficulty WILL kill PTS if it's not addressed.

I guess I still don't understand this argument. Time between blocks will increase to longer than one day or something? Actually it'd be useful to know exactly how much minimum mining power the network needs to keep block times under 1 day

Our options are:
1) Hard fork and forcing everyone to upgrade
2) Get products out there and increase the value of PTS
3) Wait it out.

The hard fork option is likely to take a week of our time dealing with support, testing, etc.   
The solution for those who want to see their transactions to go through faster is to pay more for it.   This will reward those who do mine and if enough people randomly tip miners then they will start to factor that in.

Worst case:  the PTS chain completely freezes because no one mines.   They still have value, they are just less liquid until their value increases.   Our preferred approach is to maximize our time spent increasing their value.

as an experienced alt-coiner, i'll tell you that all that is left is for a fork to happen, then we'll see if we still get smug responses that do not consider tried and proven past events.

weigh the pros and cons

pre-empting a catastrophic fork that will forcibly devalue PTS and end up diverting more attention than is necessary helps to keep miner and holder confidence.

what is there to lose from doing the right thing in good time?