Quote from: xeroc on June 10, 2014, 10:45:11 AM

Quote from: fuznuts on June 10, 2014, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: asenski on June 10, 2014, 09:41:17 AM
To me a true DAC is not controlled or owned by any legal entity. It is owned and controlled by voted delegates. Delegates in turn are incentivized to do what is expected of them, and even punished if they do what isn't expected.

If I am correct (and obviously I think I am :P), Invictus is a Central entity that formed to create the DAC toolkits and develop their own DACs to start and compete in the market.  I do not recall them ever saying anything about being a DAC themselves, though.

+Invictus/Bytemaster/Stan stated several times that invictus is a part of the bitshares ecosystem
+AGS/PTS is just their way of distributing initial shares, legal issues have nothing to do with DACs in general but with invictus holding the keys for the Angel addresses!

I'd like to see a system in which the keys of a DAC don't need to be held by a centralized entity. That's all.

What Invictus is doing is good, but not great. Things can be improved 10x. But anytime I raise the questions I'm tagged as a "non-believer" and a FUD spreader. I'm just looking at the natural progression of the space. Nothing wrong with expecting more, especially, when I see it is possible.

I'm not in a position to go work on these ideas full time at the moment. But may be I should. So far every experiment I did for fun is showing promising progress. I even have a prototype for a quantum computing resistant coin.

Quote from: fuznuts on June 10, 2014, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: asenski on June 10, 2014, 09:41:17 AM
To me a true DAC is not controlled or owned by any legal entity. It is owned and controlled by voted delegates. Delegates in turn are incentivized to do what is expected of them, and even punished if they do what isn't expected.

If I am correct (and obviously I think I am :P), Invictus is a Central entity that formed to create the DAC toolkits and develop their own DACs to start and compete in the market.  I do not recall them ever saying anything about being a DAC themselves, though.

+Invictus/Bytemaster/Stan stated several times that invictus is a part of the bitshares ecosystem
+AGS/PTS is just their way of distributing initial shares, legal issues have nothing to do with DACs in general but with invictus holding the keys for the Angel addresses!

Yum! Kool Aid!

Quote from: asenski on June 10, 2014, 09:41:17 AM
To me a true DAC is not controlled or owned by any legal entity. It is owned and controlled by voted delegates. Delegates in turn are incentivized to do what is expected of them, and even punished if they do what isn't expected.

If I am correct (and obviously I think I am :P), Invictus is a Central entity that formed to create the DAC toolkits and develop their own DACs to start and compete in the market.  I do not recall them ever saying anything about being a DAC themselves, though.

That said, I am very interested in brainstorming around methods that make the block-chain obsolete.

I have come up with couple solutions, some close to what MaidSafe does, but there are few places that would need a different form of decentralized consensus, perhaps something like DPOS.

Good write up! I believe that DACs have not evolved yet. Tools will become better, new systems will be tested/proven. It will take a much longer time than people expected.

I found it quite bizarre that Invictus would preach DACs, yet they have 2 legal entities and complain about "regulatory issues around making AGS liquid".

To me a true DAC is not controlled or owned by any legal entity. It is owned and controlled by voted delegates. Delegates in turn are incentivized to do what is expected of them, and even punished if they do what isn't expected.

Quote from: AsymmetricInformation on June 10, 2014, 05:05:56 AM
Hello,

I've written a short essay on the Truthcoin forum (I am the designer of Truthcoin, if you didn't know) which takes the probably-unpopular position that DACs are actually inferior to firms.

I'm positing here to get some feedback from (who I assume will be) my harshest critics, and refine these initial ideas.

http://forum.truthcoin.info/index.php/topic,90.msg195.html

I guess I'm hoping the conversation will take place there, as the forum is new and needs more posts, but I'll take whatever I can get.

You don't really go into the problems with "firms".

I think quality writing at least examines the opposition.  I see a lot of hack writing that is just over the top pro BTC while seemingly completely misunderstanding why we might have DACs.  You should write a paper first about all the problems with centralized entities and then you would have your own critique of your work.

Hello,

I've written a short essay on the Truthcoin forum (I am the designer of Truthcoin, if you didn't know) which takes the probably-unpopular position that DACs are actually inferior to firms.

I'm positing here to get some feedback from (who I assume will be) my harshest critics, and refine these initial ideas.

http://forum.truthcoin.info/index.php/topic,90.msg195.html

I guess I'm hoping the conversation will take place there, as the forum is new and needs more posts, but I'll take whatever I can get.