Quote from: Kenof on August 14, 2014, 05:03:02 PM
I think MetaTrader is good example of providing newsfeeds, also with downloadable content.
They used many clever solutions, if you have tried the program you will know how friendly to use it is. I could even say the best program out there with many neat features.

Every broker uses its own version of MetaTrader, similarly DACs can use protoclient that is modified to needs of a specific DAC.

Also it would be nice to have trading tools like charts, indicators and even scripts and robots (expert advisors) built in BTSX client.

Another way of doing it (probably the easiest) will be implementing MetaTrader version for BTSX.

That interface looks quite dated. We can do a lot better than that, way better. QT is actually quite powerful and it's just a matter of using the power.

Once the important market features are working in Bitshares then a lot of focus should go into designing and polishing the interface.

Quote from: luckybit on August 14, 2014, 10:17:22 AM

Quote from: gamey on August 10, 2014, 06:12:26 AM

Quote from: luckybit on August 10, 2014, 02:44:27 AM

Quote from: gamey on August 09, 2014, 05:29:19 PM
Who decides who is in the banner rotation?  You'd have to make a voting system first.  I3 could advertise their own DACs hardcoded? To me ads make it scream non-freemium.  Although I suppose ads may be targeted enough to not cause irritation.

I3's own DACs at first. We can worry about other DACs in the future but since it's i3's client it should be the DACs they certify as officially supported by the community.

I think freemium is stupid. Nothing is really freemium. Facebook is freemium because they sell your data. You have no privacy on Facebook and on top of that they still make money from ads.

Bitshares X is something we own so if there are ads on it we'll have a higher burn rate. It's in our self interest to have those ads also because as holders of PTS and AGS it can help increase the adoption rate of the other DACs which come down the pipe. The main reason is that we need a way to aggregate all the information from these forums and one of the main complaints is that information isn't in one place.

I have no clue about freemium and how it is related to Facebook.  Freemium is the base product is free and you upsell from there.  This is commonly seen in phone apps that are free with a banner ad, and you pay a $1 and the ad is removed.  That is all I was referring to - having the flagship app look like a freemium product.  Maybe that doesn't matter, but that was my only point.

I notice I said "non-freemium", so I was confused for some reason when I typed the original message.

You're selling the attention of the user. It's not free. Our attention is the most precious commodity we have to sell.

In the case of Bitshares X the users own the business and actively want relevant information. It's not the same as advertisements. Users need an information stream to help them make decisions and putting the information stream in the app itself will help the information to flow better which could improve market efficiency.

Are posts on these forums advertisements for DACs or is it an information resource for people who want to learn about the latest DACs? Instead of having all the latest information on this forum why not bring the information to the users?

For Bitshares X it should be information related to the upcoming Bitshares X DACs. This could be snapshot information or it could be relevant third party DACs. It could be a video from Bytemaster explaining a new technology downloaded as a torrent or an important podcast.

The Bitshares PTS wallet should have it built in so that all third party DACs which intend to give at least 10% to PTS holders are able to advertise in the PTS wallet. I'm not talking just about banners but information aggregation and streams to provide users with the information they require to make economic decisions.

It's important to have charts for technical analysis. It's important to have a news feed for the latest headlines. It's important to have a stock or DAC index ticker so the user can track prices across different DACs. It's important to connect users to the forum when they have questions from within Bitshares itself in a point and click manner and important to provide the latest in technical information as it happens from whoever is developing the DAC in a blog, podcast, vlog or some kind of feed.

I'm thinking of something like Planet Bitshares modeled after something like this http://planetkde.org/ or this http://www.planetminecraft.com/

Users of Bitshares X would be able to log onto Bitsharestalk from within Bitshares X itself. They would not have to open a browser or leave Bitshares X to interact with the Bitshares universe.

Beyondbitcoinx.net is aiming to incentivize people to post and propagate their own content, and even gives them a free server from which to run their own events & shows.  The current thinking is that it is designed such that:
-DACs main pages are intended to provide space to advertise DAC delegates they sponsor,
-Delegate main pages are meant to have space for advertising supported DAC or other projects of interest. 
-alongnwith some other secret point system stuff for verified accounts ;)

The key is to make it an informational hub that makes it far easier for users to both produce content (informational, entertaining, advertisements) and propagate it. 

My main interest in making this happen is whether we will someday easily be able to have users visit using the wallet as a full-functioning browser.  In my mind something like a bitshares browser would enable funds to be held in one password protected account, which then could store passwords of all other sites a user visits, and then have a class ond are needed to visit sites that provide a front end to DAC services.

I think MetaTrader is good example of providing newsfeeds, also with downloadable content.
They used many clever solutions, if you have tried the program you will know how friendly to use it is. I could even say the best program out there with many neat features.

Every broker uses its own version of MetaTrader, similarly DACs can use protoclient that is modified to needs of a specific DAC.

Also it would be nice to have trading tools like charts, indicators and even scripts and robots (expert advisors) built in BTSX client.

Another way of doing it (probably the easiest) will be implementing MetaTrader version for BTSX.

Quote from: fuznuts on August 13, 2014, 08:37:22 AM

Quote from: Gentso1 on August 12, 2014, 06:54:49 PM

Quote from: fuznuts on August 09, 2014, 03:53:53 AM

Quote from: luckybit on August 09, 2014, 01:44:27 AM

Quote from: Gentso1 on August 08, 2014, 05:06:16 PM
I am not a fan of troll boxes but I think if you are trying to market to "home" day traders, they love this kinda of crap.

With that being said if you are truly trying to make this a business platform their should be no troll box.

Without a troll box how do you compete with BTC-E? Why would people switch away from that onto Bitshares X?

It seems that the troll box has a positive impact on volume or at least there is a correlation. Our subjective feelings don't matter. If it could improve volume then we should do it.

trollbox has become a very central part of this thread.  Why not offer one but have it so a user has to take an extra step once logged in to open it? Wouldnt the best solution, after all, be to accomodate both types of traders?

Great idea I feel like this is a great comprises and puts the power in the users hands. I also can't deny the power of the btc-e troll box.

Would it be possible to give the most famous traders the proceeds from the payments, as long as they keep a high "trust rating"? 

The reasons for integrating this into the "pay-to-play trollbox" would be the following:

1)  Disincentive for trollbox trolls who want to misinform
2)  Incentive for trusted and knowledgeable traders to join and answer noobie questions
3)  Incentive for noobies to use the trollbox as the trollbox here would be far safer than any others

It would be better if we could just have a lottery and reward random people who are automatically entered into the lottery through activity and participation. So anyone who has made beyond the minimum threshold of comments is entered into the lottery. But I think that would be too difficult and take up too much developer time to implement. It may likely require a special asset as well so why not safe it for another more lottery oriented DAC?

The trollbox should be set up similar to how mcxNow is set up. I would model it after that. Users must keep a minimum amount of Bitshares in their account to be able to participate.

A basic trollbox would take only a few days to implement because there is plenty of code which exists for chatroom functionality and it's really standard. The interface probably would take longer to code than the backend but I don't think it would take a lot of developer time so let's start by asking for a trollbox.

The challenges, how to preserve privacy with a trollbox?

I think BitMessage actually has a pretty good decentralized code base that if we could make work with the trollbox at the backend it could allow the sort of functionality hoped to have with Keyhotee. I don't know if they are sticking with Keyhotee but I was under the impression that we could have instant messaging, video, audio, and other chat features without losing our privacy.

BitMessage already exists so it would take the least development time to plug it into Bitshares X.

BitChirp allows for anonymous tweets. https://bitchirp.org/faq/
https://github.com/srmojuze/BitChirp

The real question is would we be able to take our Bitshares X accounts with reputations and use them on top of BitMessage, BitChirp, or other infrastructure? In order to build it all out we will need pseudo-anonymity.

Quote from: gamey on August 10, 2014, 06:12:26 AM

Quote from: luckybit on August 10, 2014, 02:44:27 AM

Quote from: gamey on August 09, 2014, 05:29:19 PM
Who decides who is in the banner rotation?  You'd have to make a voting system first.  I3 could advertise their own DACs hardcoded? To me ads make it scream non-freemium.  Although I suppose ads may be targeted enough to not cause irritation.

I3's own DACs at first. We can worry about other DACs in the future but since it's i3's client it should be the DACs they certify as officially supported by the community.

I think freemium is stupid. Nothing is really freemium. Facebook is freemium because they sell your data. You have no privacy on Facebook and on top of that they still make money from ads.

Bitshares X is something we own so if there are ads on it we'll have a higher burn rate. It's in our self interest to have those ads also because as holders of PTS and AGS it can help increase the adoption rate of the other DACs which come down the pipe. The main reason is that we need a way to aggregate all the information from these forums and one of the main complaints is that information isn't in one place.

I have no clue about freemium and how it is related to Facebook.  Freemium is the base product is free and you upsell from there.  This is commonly seen in phone apps that are free with a banner ad, and you pay a $1 and the ad is removed.  That is all I was referring to - having the flagship app look like a freemium product.  Maybe that doesn't matter, but that was my only point.

I notice I said "non-freemium", so I was confused for some reason when I typed the original message.

You're selling the attention of the user. It's not free. Our attention is the most precious commodity we have to sell.

In the case of Bitshares X the users own the business and actively want relevant information. It's not the same as advertisements. Users need an information stream to help them make decisions and putting the information stream in the app itself will help the information to flow better which could improve market efficiency.

Are posts on these forums advertisements for DACs or is it an information resource for people who want to learn about the latest DACs? Instead of having all the latest information on this forum why not bring the information to the users?

For Bitshares X it should be information related to the upcoming Bitshares X DACs. This could be snapshot information or it could be relevant third party DACs. It could be a video from Bytemaster explaining a new technology downloaded as a torrent or an important podcast.

The Bitshares PTS wallet should have it built in so that all third party DACs which intend to give at least 10% to PTS holders are able to advertise in the PTS wallet. I'm not talking just about banners but information aggregation and streams to provide users with the information they require to make economic decisions.

It's important to have charts for technical analysis. It's important to have a news feed for the latest headlines. It's important to have a stock or DAC index ticker so the user can track prices across different DACs. It's important to connect users to the forum when they have questions from within Bitshares itself in a point and click manner and important to provide the latest in technical information as it happens from whoever is developing the DAC in a blog, podcast, vlog or some kind of feed.

I'm thinking of something like Planet Bitshares modeled after something like this http://planetkde.org/ or this http://www.planetminecraft.com/

Users of Bitshares X would be able to log onto Bitsharestalk from within Bitshares X itself. They would not have to open a browser or leave Bitshares X to interact with the Bitshares universe.

Quote from: Riverhead on August 13, 2014, 08:59:16 AM
The way BTC-E does it is you have to have a certain balance on the exchange to chat. I like that as it keeps chat free and only for customers of the exchange.
I feel the purpose of the troll box is to create a place where people come to hangout. The longer they hangout and the more the exchange becomes their go to place the more likely we'll be their primary exchange.

+5%
Altering user habits is #1 in marketing.

The way BTC-E does it is you have to have a certain balance on the exchange to chat. I like that as it keeps chat free and only for customers of the exchange.
I feel the purpose of the troll box is to create a place where people come to hangout. The longer they hangout and the more the exchange becomes their go to place the more likely we'll be their primary exchange.

Quote from: Gentso1 on August 12, 2014, 06:54:49 PM

Quote from: fuznuts on August 09, 2014, 03:53:53 AM

Quote from: luckybit on August 09, 2014, 01:44:27 AM

Quote from: Gentso1 on August 08, 2014, 05:06:16 PM
I am not a fan of troll boxes but I think if you are trying to market to "home" day traders, they love this kinda of crap.

With that being said if you are truly trying to make this a business platform their should be no troll box.

Without a troll box how do you compete with BTC-E? Why would people switch away from that onto Bitshares X?

It seems that the troll box has a positive impact on volume or at least there is a correlation. Our subjective feelings don't matter. If it could improve volume then we should do it.

trollbox has become a very central part of this thread.  Why not offer one but have it so a user has to take an extra step once logged in to open it? Wouldnt the best solution, after all, be to accomodate both types of traders?

Great idea I feel like this is a great comprises and puts the power in the users hands. I also can't deny the power of the btc-e troll box.

Would it be possible to give the most famous traders the proceeds from the payments, as long as they keep a high "trust rating"? 

The reasons for integrating this into the "pay-to-play trollbox" would be the following:

1)  Disincentive for trollbox trolls who want to misinform
2)  Incentive for trusted and knowledgeable traders to join and answer noobie questions
3)  Incentive for noobies to use the trollbox as the trollbox here would be far safer than any others

Quote from: fuznuts on August 09, 2014, 03:53:53 AM

Quote from: luckybit on August 09, 2014, 01:44:27 AM

Quote from: Gentso1 on August 08, 2014, 05:06:16 PM
I am not a fan of troll boxes but I think if you are trying to market to "home" day traders, they love this kinda of crap.

With that being said if you are truly trying to make this a business platform their should be no troll box.

Without a troll box how do you compete with BTC-E? Why would people switch away from that onto Bitshares X?

It seems that the troll box has a positive impact on volume or at least there is a correlation. Our subjective feelings don't matter. If it could improve volume then we should do it.

trollbox has become a very central part of this thread.  Why not offer one but have it so a user has to take an extra step once logged in to open it? Wouldnt the best solution, after all, be to accomodate both types of traders?

Great idea I feel like this is a great compromise and puts the power in the users hands. I also can't deny the power of the btc-e troll box.

Quote from: gamey on August 10, 2014, 06:12:26 AM

Quote from: luckybit on August 10, 2014, 02:44:27 AM

Quote from: gamey on August 09, 2014, 05:29:19 PM
Who decides who is in the banner rotation?  You'd have to make a voting system first.  I3 could advertise their own DACs hardcoded? To me ads make it scream non-freemium.  Although I suppose ads may be targeted enough to not cause irritation.

I3's own DACs at first. We can worry about other DACs in the future but since it's i3's client it should be the DACs they certify as officially supported by the community.

I think freemium is stupid. Nothing is really freemium. Facebook is freemium because they sell your data. You have no privacy on Facebook and on top of that they still make money from ads.

Bitshares X is something we own so if there are ads on it we'll have a higher burn rate. It's in our self interest to have those ads also because as holders of PTS and AGS it can help increase the adoption rate of the other DACs which come down the pipe. The main reason is that we need a way to aggregate all the information from these forums and one of the main complaints is that information isn't in one place.

I have no clue about freemium and how it is related to Facebook.  Freemium is the base product is free and you upsell from there.  This is commonly seen in phone apps that are free with a banner ad, and you pay a $1 and the ad is removed.  That is all I was referring to - having the flagship app look like a freemium product.  Maybe that doesn't matter, but that was my only point.

I notice I said "non-freemium", so I was confused for some reason when I typed the original message.

Bitshares isn't free. You have to buy BTSX to use it. It's pay to play generally but if that is the case the ads shouldn't be treated as ad space but more as a central information space.

RSS aggregation could easily be built in. This information is important because we want to know when the next snapshot is or what the latest DAC is.  It's the sort of information we spend hours searching for on the forum when it should be displayed in Bitshares X itself.

Its opensource .. you can'n just manually remove the code .. if we had sthnlike that it would look newbish then.

Quote from: luckybit on August 10, 2014, 02:44:27 AM

Quote from: gamey on August 09, 2014, 05:29:19 PM
Who decides who is in the banner rotation?  You'd have to make a voting system first.  I3 could advertise their own DACs hardcoded? To me ads make it scream non-freemium.  Although I suppose ads may be targeted enough to not cause irritation.

I3's own DACs at first. We can worry about other DACs in the future but since it's i3's client it should be the DACs they certify as officially supported by the community.

I think freemium is stupid. Nothing is really freemium. Facebook is freemium because they sell your data. You have no privacy on Facebook and on top of that they still make money from ads.

Bitshares X is something we own so if there are ads on it we'll have a higher burn rate. It's in our self interest to have those ads also because as holders of PTS and AGS it can help increase the adoption rate of the other DACs which come down the pipe. The main reason is that we need a way to aggregate all the information from these forums and one of the main complaints is that information isn't in one place.

I have no clue about freemium and how it is related to Facebook.  Freemium is the base product is free and you upsell from there.  This is commonly seen in phone apps that are free with a banner ad, and you pay a $1 and the ad is removed.  That is all I was referring to - having the flagship app look like a freemium product.  Maybe that doesn't matter, but that was my only point.

I notice I said "non-freemium", so I was confused for some reason when I typed the original message.

Quote from: gamey on August 09, 2014, 05:29:19 PM
Who decides who is in the banner rotation?  You'd have to make a voting system first.  I3 could advertise their own DACs hardcoded? To me ads make it scream non-freemium.  Although I suppose ads may be targeted enough to not cause irritation.

I3's own DACs at first. We can worry about other DACs in the future but since it's i3's client it should be the DACs they certify as officially supported by the community.

I think freemium is stupid. Nothing is really freemium. Facebook is freemium because they sell your data. You have no privacy on Facebook and on top of that they still make money from ads.

Bitshares X is something we own so if there are ads on it we'll have a higher burn rate. It's in our self interest to have those ads also because as holders of PTS and AGS it can help increase the adoption rate of the other DACs which come down the pipe. The main reason is that we need a way to aggregate all the information from these forums and one of the main complaints is that information isn't in one place.

Who decides who is in the banner rotation?  You'd have to make a voting system first.  I3 could advertise their own DACs hardcoded? To me ads make it scream non-freemium.  Although I suppose ads may be targeted enough to not cause irritation.

Quote from: fuznuts on August 09, 2014, 03:53:53 AM

Quote from: luckybit on August 09, 2014, 01:44:27 AM

Quote from: Gentso1 on August 08, 2014, 05:06:16 PM
I am not a fan of troll boxes but I think if you are trying to market to "home" day traders, they love this kinda of crap.

With that being said if you are truly trying to make this a business platform their should be no troll box.

Without a troll box how do you compete with BTC-E? Why would people switch away from that onto Bitshares X?

It seems that the troll box has a positive impact on volume or at least there is a correlation. Our subjective feelings don't matter. If it could improve volume then we should do it.

trollbox has become a very central part of this thread.  Why not offer one but have it so a user has to take an extra step once logged in to open it? Wouldnt the best solution, after all, be to accomodate both types of traders?

We could charge them a nominal transaction fee. This way we could track the interest in it's usage while also monetizing it. Burn the fees of course and do the microtransactions on a character basis to prevent spam.