Quote from: vbuterin on August 19, 2014, 02:41:37 AM

Quote from: fuznuts on August 17, 2014, 01:13:00 PM

Quote from: vbuterin on August 16, 2014, 12:04:40 PM
anyone can release a version of ethereum N.0 for N>1 by making their own additions and giving 0.26x minus mining fees since N-1.0 to their own communities as they deem fit, and if the community deems any implementation technically bad or unfair they can reject it and keep building on the previous instead kinda like a blockchain".

Release a version of ethereum (N.0 for N>1) meaning Version N.0, with N greater than one.  This can be taken to mean Ethereum 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 etc...only Ethereum 1.0 has the current obligations.  Ethereum version 2.0, 3.0...etc could be created by making your own additions to your version of ethereum (thus making it your 2.0 version of ethereum--there may be many 2.0's). 

Giving (.26x - Mining Fees since N-1.0 to their own communities as they deem fit) means to:
"Sharedrop" on holders of your ethereum clone, with (what I would assume) is a total taken from the difference between the .26x inflation with mining fees taken out (so it will be less than the .26x total).  This would be intented to keep the supply of YOUR Ethereum clone the same as the original...and you disperse those extra ethereum in whatever way you wish to the holders on your chain. 

Hope this helps Delulo.  And please feel free to let me know if I am off here guys and gals.

This is exactly what I meant, thank you fuznuts.

So as an update on possible collaboration, I think we agreed that keeping things informal is the best way forward at this point. No official partnerships or mergers of any companies or any coins/projects, and it doesn't really make sense to copy-paste codebases in either direction either. But we are happy to participate in standardization efforts and collaborative discussions on technical issues as long as it's an open tent where any crypto-2.0 project can participate. I think there definitely are a few areas (eg. proof of stake algos, client standardization) where that would be quite beneficial.

Thank you for having us over, Bitshares team! Look forward to talking more online and offline in the future.

Such an awesome attitude.  I applaud the collaboration and initiation of discussion, welcome to the community Vitalik! +5%

Quote from: fuznuts on August 17, 2014, 01:13:00 PM

Quote from: vbuterin on August 16, 2014, 12:04:40 PM
anyone can release a version of ethereum N.0 for N>1 by making their own additions and giving 0.26x minus mining fees since N-1.0 to their own communities as they deem fit, and if the community deems any implementation technically bad or unfair they can reject it and keep building on the previous instead kinda like a blockchain".

Release a version of ethereum (N.0 for N>1) meaning Version N.0, with N greater than one.  This can be taken to mean Ethereum 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 etc...only Ethereum 1.0 has the current obligations.  Ethereum version 2.0, 3.0...etc could be created by making your own additions to your version of ethereum (thus making it your 2.0 version of ethereum--there may be many 2.0's). 

Giving (.26x - Mining Fees since N-1.0 to their own communities as they deem fit) means to:
"Sharedrop" on holders of your ethereum clone, with (what I would assume) is a total taken from the difference between the .26x inflation with mining fees taken out (so it will be less than the .26x total).  This would be intented to keep the supply of YOUR Ethereum clone the same as the original...and you disperse those extra ethereum in whatever way you wish to the holders on your chain. 

Hope this helps Delulo.  And please feel free to let me know if I am off here guys and gals.

This is exactly what I meant, thank you fuznuts.

So as an update on possible collaboration, I think we agreed that keeping things informal is the best way forward at this point. No official partnerships or mergers of any companies or any coins/projects, and it doesn't really make sense to copy-paste codebases in either direction either. But we are happy to participate in standardization efforts and collaborative discussions on technical issues as long as it's an open tent where any crypto-2.0 project can participate. I think there definitely are a few areas (eg. proof of stake algos, client standardization) where that would be quite beneficial.

Thank you for having us over, Bitshares team! Look forward to talking more online and offline in the future.

Quote from: clout on August 16, 2014, 03:58:32 PM

Quote from: Technologov on August 16, 2014, 03:46:40 PM
The main objection and concern I have for Proof-Of-Stake, is that it disallows mining.
It is impossible to mine NXT coin, for example,  if you don't own any.
This blocks the community from growth.

do you mine bitcoin?

Brilliant response!

People are talking about doing some other kind of work, to get new currency into production.  Solving folding problems, finding ETs are good possibilities, but I bet there is far more important work than this that could be done.  Again, you could use a Canonizer.com like amplification of the wisdom of the crowd system to determine what type of work could be done to earn new currencies, and more importantly, it could be used to determine how much new currency could be put into production to accomplish such things, in a real time constantly changing way.

Quote from: CLains on August 18, 2014, 03:13:20 PM
I doubt Vitalik has the emotional sharpness to force something like this through the social-ideological inertia that surrounds him.. Be Brave, young one!

This is not an easy task, for anyone.  There is a good chance the Bytemaster, and Bitshares will have this problem in the near future.  Best case, he'll piss at least some people off, and things will fracture.

But with the consensus building amplification of the wisdom of the crowd systems like Canonizer.com, this is natural and easy.  THE most important thing is to know, concisely and quantitatively, what everyone is thinking, why, and what it would take to convert them / make them happy.  All stuff that happens naturally at Canonizer.com.  Right now, the sheepish herd is about to run over the POW clif.  For this, and other similar issues in the future, how do you get the entire sheepish herd to change directions, on a dime, and be sure you've succeed before you commit.  And even better, keep the crowd educated about the evils of POW, and so on, before they get too far out of hand.

Quote from: fuznuts on August 17, 2014, 01:13:00 PM
That is ok.  Anyone who knows altcoins with proper Devs get in touch with me please.  We don't really need ethereum in order to change the world...though it is nice to see Vitalik hanging around.  :)

If they choose not to collaborate, you should totally create a clone with DPOS when it's released and sharedrop at least 20% to all the Ether holders.  That'll show them the value of our social contract   8)

Quote from: Riverhead on August 17, 2014, 01:11:38 PM
Reminds me of something I read once about (I think) .Net, "This will be open platform once everyone is running Windows" :) .

To be fair given the large amount of effort, time, and planning a project of this scope requires I can understand them being a little defensive.

lol!  +5%
IMO their defensiveness is misplaced because it would have no bearing on the value of their stake.. if anything, the value would improve with DPOS because it'd be a more efficient and scalable system.

Quote from: liondani on August 18, 2014, 05:49:59 PM

Quote from: Empirical1 on August 18, 2014, 04:53:37 PM

Quote from: merockstar on August 18, 2014, 04:47:13 AM

Quote from: liondani on August 16, 2014, 11:25:41 AM
dpos is a great upgrade security wise for the blockchain technology...
But what about your personal security on this real world guys?
Hope your photographer is behind you not only to take pictures, but because they are "watching your backs"  ;)

I worry about this as well. I'll bet 1000btsx that Stan is the photographer.

+5%

he is proud... and he is right to be  ;)

Yes for sure  :) 

My  +5% was for being concerned about the personal security of BM.

Quote from: Empirical1 on August 18, 2014, 04:53:37 PM

Quote from: merockstar on August 18, 2014, 04:47:13 AM

Quote from: liondani on August 16, 2014, 11:25:41 AM
dpos is a great upgrade security wise for the blockchain technology...
But what about your personal security on this real world guys?
Hope your photographer is behind you not only to take pictures, but because they are "watching your backs"  ;)

I worry about this as well. I'll bet 1000btsx that Stan is the photographer.

+5%

he is proud... and he is right to be  ;)

Quote from: merockstar on August 18, 2014, 04:47:13 AM

Quote from: liondani on August 16, 2014, 11:25:41 AM
dpos is a great upgrade security wise for the blockchain technology...
But what about your personal security on this real world guys?
Hope your photographer is behind you not only to take pictures, but because they are "watching your backs"  ;)

I worry about this as well. I'll bet 1000btsx that Stan is the photographer.

+5%

Quote from: menga on August 16, 2014, 10:54:04 AM
What using go and aerospike ( http://www.aerospike.com/  and  http://www.aerospike.com/blog/go-aerospike-a-perfect-match/ ).

Go language ( http://golang.org/ ) has a lot of qualities

* Astonishing performance
* Strong typing
* Asynchronous, multithreaded, multicore programming
* Clear, concise syntax

Ethereum is mainly written in Go.

I like go.  I was  playing around with a version of Bitcoin written in go by Conformal Systems:
https://opensource.conformal.com/wiki/btcd

I doubt Vitalik has the emotional sharpness to force something like this through the social-ideological inertia that surrounds him.. Be Brave, young one!

Quote from: yellowecho on August 17, 2014, 12:50:11 PM
So far the response from the Ethereum community has been very negative.  I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised since it's the "one chain to rule them all" fan club but it's still disheartening to see such vocal closed mindedness.

I'm thrilled to see Vitalik and Dan have a good professional relationship and am looking forward to hearing more about the challenges faced by both parties in developing these ecosystems.

Yes, at the very least it seems like they've stimulated and helped each other in certain areas so that is positive.

If BM's perspective is correct, that Vitalik sees POW as pretty much dead, then it's quite a big rift, if the other main Ethereum dev/s disagrees. I personally can't see Vitalik wanting to spend his talent and effort developing Ethereum on a base he perceives as having a limited future.

I haven't invested in Ether myself yet at all.

outstanding!

Quote from: liondani on August 16, 2014, 11:25:41 AM
dpos is a great upgrade security wise for the blockchain technology...
But what about your personal security on this real world guys?
Hope your photographer is behind you not only to take pictures, but because they are "watching your backs"  ;)

I worry about this as well. I'll bet 1000btsx that Stan is the photographer.

I am happy to see the goodwill also. Personally, I feel there is much more upside to BitShares than to Ethereum, though I am rooting for the latter also. Maybe if Vitalik agrees with the potential of DPOS and his collaborators are still interested in digging holes, he might consider crossing the aisle to join our team? He could float a BitShares V-coin that would make Ethereum's IPO look like a bake sale. And, I'm sure, have complete freedom to design a smart contracts DAC.

Quote from: vbuterin on August 16, 2014, 12:04:40 PM
anyone can release a version of ethereum N.0 for N>1 by making their own additions and giving 0.26x minus mining fees since N-1.0 to their own communities as they deem fit, and if the community deems any implementation technically bad or unfair they can reject it and keep building on the previous instead kinda like a blockchain".

Release a version of ethereum (N.0 for N>1) meaning Version N.0, with N greater than one.  This can be taken to mean Ethereum 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 etc...only Ethereum 1.0 has the current obligations.  Ethereum version 2.0, 3.0...etc could be created by making your own additions to your version of ethereum (thus making it your 2.0 version of ethereum--there may be many 2.0's). 

Giving (.26x - Mining Fees since N-1.0 to their own communities as they deem fit) means to:
"Sharedrop" on holders of your ethereum clone, with (what I would assume) is a total taken from the difference between the .26x inflation with mining fees taken out (so it will be less than the .26x total).  This would be intented to keep the supply of YOUR Ethereum clone the same as the original...and you disperse those extra ethereum in whatever way you wish to the holders on your chain. 

Hope this helps Delulo.  And please feel free to let me know if I am off here guys and gals.

Quote from: yellowecho on August 17, 2014, 12:50:11 PM
So far the response from the Ethereum community has been very negative.  I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised since it's the "one chain to rule them all" fan club but it's still disheartening to see such vocal closed mindedness.

I'm thrilled to see Vitalik and Dan have a good professional relationship and am looking forward to hearing more about the challenges faced by both parties in developing these ecosystems.

That is ok.  Anyone who knows altcoins with proper Devs get in touch with me please.  We don't really need ethereum in order to change the world...though it is nice to see Vitalik hanging around.  :)