What does a fair allocation of Bitshares to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders look like?

[fuzzy]

People with PTS were expecting a % of DACs going forward.  This % will be severely diluted.  If someone snapshots 20% in the future to BTSX, that is far different than 10% to PTS and 10% to AGS. 

What remaining DACs are there? Just an abstract "any future DACs"?

Yes.  Was this not what Dan sold as his vision for donations... from the beginning? All these low barrier to entry DACs?  Has everyone done a 180 on that view now ?

Man outside a core group of existing BitShares related talent Hackfisher, Toast, Eddie & Cob and perhaps Vote etc. there was really not much in the upcoming pipeline really. The one third party that did honour it LTS didn't do so well. Plus in a few months there'll be Ethereum competing for attention anyway. Personally I think this is a great deal for PTS and my AGS stake.

I think Bitshares was "The Big Idea" for most of us.

But then again...
One never knows what someone like bm will come up with in the future...

But if they are all "apps" now...instead of DACs, then what happens to the shares?  Will they still exist as tokens?  What will this psychologically do to the price of each once they are looked at like assets on a NxT exchange are looked at?

[Method-X]

People with PTS were expecting a % of DACs going forward.  This % will be severely diluted.  If someone snapshots 20% in the future to BTSX, that is far different than 10% to PTS and 10% to AGS. 

Having a smaller percentage of a very big pie is better than having a large percentage of a very small pie. It's very likely the separate DACs wouldn't amount to much anyway without viral growth / network effect.

[GaltReport]

People with PTS were expecting a % of DACs going forward.  This % will be severely diluted.  If someone snapshots 20% in the future to BTSX, that is far different than 10% to PTS and 10% to AGS. 

What remaining DACs are there? Just an abstract "any future DACs"?

Yes.  Was this not what Dan sold as his vision for donations... from the beginning? All these low barrier to entry DACs?  Has everyone done a 180 on that view now ?

Man outside a core group of existing BitShares related talent Hackfisher, Toast, Eddie & Cob and perhaps Vote etc. there was really not much in the upcoming pipeline really. The one third party that did honour it LTS didn't do so well. Plus in a few months there'll be Ethereum competing for attention anyway. Personally I think this is a great deal for PTS and my AGS stake.

I think Bitshares was "The Big Idea" for most of us.

[Empirical1.1]

People with PTS were expecting a % of DACs going forward.  This % will be severely diluted.  If someone snapshots 20% in the future to BTSX, that is far different than 10% to PTS and 10% to AGS. 

What remaining DACs are there? Just an abstract "any future DACs"?

Yes.  Was this not what Dan sold as his vision for donations... from the beginning? All these low barrier to entry DACs?  Has everyone done a 180 on that view now ?

Outside a core group of existing BitShares related talent Hackfisher, Toast, Eddie & Cob and perhaps Vote etc. there was really not much in the upcoming pipeline really. The one third party that did honour it LTS didn't do so well. Plus in a few months there'll be Ethereum competing for attention anyway. Personally I think this is a great deal for PTS and my AGS stake.

[gamey]

Personally I never found the need to get rid of AGS/PTS.  If they're hard to market, then don't market them.  Re-brand it all and make PTS/AGS like products of BItshares and make them an asset.

Keep Bitshares plan as it is otherwise.  Drop the X,  add democratic stake issuance.  I'm still quite happy.

[GaltReport]

THere is a big question here about the value that PTS holders give up when the whole PTS/AGS system is abandoned.  It is value that is being destroyed by the acquisition.  How do you even put that into the equation ?  You guys can just take a BTSX vote, but that isn't the same as a PTS vote.

I thought the idea was to transfer the remaining value of PTS/AGS into BTS.. not destroy value

Yes, future DACs (the functionality and/or actual separate DACs) will emerge from BTS.  it's not destroyed, only transferred.

You get more value in the form of BTSX but less from future snapshots which is why people invested in PTS/AGS to begin with.  That whole thing is flushed down to 17% or whatever of what it would have been.  So now PTS gets 17% of 20% instead of 20%.  Thats what PTS looses.

ah, I see.  There is a bit of a difference but that is very hard to calculate.  It seems very theoretical.  You don't know if the value added (new DAC-like functinality/app) to the new whole (BTS) is worth more than the sum of the separate DACS.  Some of them may not have been successful on their own and would benefit from being part of BTS or possibly the reverse I suppose.

[gamey]

People with PTS were expecting a % of DACs going forward.  This % will be severely diluted.  If someone snapshots 20% in the future to BTSX, that is far different than 10% to PTS and 10% to AGS. 

What remaining DACs are there? Just an abstract "any future DACs"?

Yes.  Was this not what Dan sold as his vision for donations... from the beginning? All these low barrier to entry DACs?  Has everyone done a 180 on that view now ?

[gamey]

THere is a big question here about the value that PTS holders give up when the whole PTS/AGS system is abandoned.  It is value that is being destroyed by the acquisition.  How do you even put that into the equation ?  You guys can just take a BTSX vote, but that isn't the same as a PTS vote.

I thought the idea was to transfer the remaining value of PTS/AGS into BTS.. not destroy value

Yes, future DACs (the functionality and/or actual separate DACs) will emerge from BTS.  it's not destroyed, only transferred.

You get more value in the form of BTSX but less from future snapshots which is why people invested in PTS/AGS to begin with.  That whole thing is flushed down to 17% or whatever of what it would have been.  So now PTS gets 17% of 20% instead of 20%.  Thats what PTS loses.

[fuzzy]

So what will change after the merger? Will I get any Music, Vote, DNS or XYZ DAC shares, or is my gain more through association like my original impression?

Those will become "apps" (wont' necessarily have an equity) and not a DAC.

This statement makes me want to sell my DNS like yesterday, can we get a little more clarity?

[Empirical1.1]

THere is a big question here about the value that PTS holders give up when the whole PTS/AGS system is abandoned.  It is value that is being destroyed by the acquisition.  How do you even put that into the equation ?  You guys can just take a BTSX vote, but that isn't the same as a PTS vote.

I thought the idea was to transfer the remaining value of PTS/AGS into BTS.. not destroy value

Yes I believe that it will add value but the point is that it is subjective, you can't reach consensus on it as PTS doesn't have DPOS.

I would say BTSX has already lost value by losing many of the 'non-dilutionists' whatever decision you take may lose you some support from a small group of AGS/PTS/BTSX. Personally I would rather we err on the side of favouring BTSX.

[toast]

People with PTS were expecting a % of DACs going forward.  This % will be severely diluted.  If someone snapshots 20% in the future to BTSX, that is far different than 10% to PTS and 10% to AGS. 

What remaining DACs are there? Just an abstract "any future DACs"?

[toast]

So what will change after the merger? Will I get any Music, Vote, DNS or XYZ DAC shares, or is my gain more through association like my original impression?

Those will become "apps" (wont' necessarily have an equity) and not a DAC.

[gamey]

THere is a big question here about the value that PTS holders give up when the whole PTS/AGS system is abandoned.  It is value that is being destroyed by the acquisition.  How do you even put that into the equation ?  You guys can just take a BTSX vote, but that isn't the same as a PTS vote.

I thought the idea was to transfer the remaining value of PTS/AGS into BTS.. not destroy value

People with PTS were expecting a % of DACs going forward.  This % will be severely diluted.  If someone snapshots 20% in the future to BTSX, that is far different than 10% to PTS and 10% to AGS. 

Thats the part of the problem, with the exception of I3 employees it seems like it is all "Team BTSX" and I understand why.  Thats why I'm for it in general, but I don't think PTS/AGS should be lowballed. 

[GaltReport]

THere is a big question here about the value that PTS holders give up when the whole PTS/AGS system is abandoned.  It is value that is being destroyed by the acquisition.  How do you even put that into the equation ?  You guys can just take a BTSX vote, but that isn't the same as a PTS vote.

I thought the idea was to transfer the remaining value of PTS/AGS into BTS.. not destroy value

Yes, future DACs (the functionality and/or actual separate DACs) will emerge from BTS.  it's not destroyed, only transferred.

[Thom]

Wow! how things move fast around here.

I listened to the mumble session and have spent the last 6 hours reading. I hold only BTSX and got in about 2 months ago.

But I haven't really seen the X of BTSX materialize. There is no way to trade other cryptos with BTSX unless you use some OTHER exchange. So there's something quite different about the btsX than all other crypto exchanges available today. There's so much discussed and so many ideas I've practically forgotten about BTSX as an eXchange.

I'm generally in favor of BM's proposal. I do have a question about what I'll be invested in after the merger. When I bought BTSX I thought I was investing in the eXchange, which would become worth more as each new DAC was added. I viewed it similarly to how PTS investors view their share "dividends" accrued with each new DAC launched.

I'm not too sure that was an accurate perspective, but that was my viewpoint. I never felt I had an explicit understanding of how a new DAC would add to my BTSX value.  But I was confident in BM's vision and believed the time was right to get onboard. I've been listening to BM since April.

So what will change after the merger? Will I get any Music, Vote, DNS or XYZ DAC shares, or is my gain more through association like my original impression?