Author Topic: Proposed Allocation for Merger  (Read 43266 times)

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Offline jsidhu

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2014, 05:09:42 pm »
Can someone explain how putting ags/pts into bts is not zero sum for i3 related dacs rolling forward?
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Offline tonyk

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2014, 05:10:10 pm »
 +5%
I Like it. Let's go.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline luckybit

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2014, 05:13:51 pm »
Bytemaster, the 2-year vesting period is not good--it's too restrictive and will unnecessarily harm everyone by imposing more risk on people's portfolios. Also, AGS, PTS should get 10% each as they don't have a seat at the negotiating table.

I think the 2 year vesting period is great. The idea is to make everyone a stakeholder but you still have to have some order to it or there will be people acting irrationally. One of the best decisions by Satoshi Nakamoto was the block halving reward is on a set schedule. Everyone knows when it will happen and looks forward to it which allows the market to price that event into the current price of Bitcoin.

Having a 2 year vesting period gives everyone a fair amount of time to adjust to the new normal. People who are getting Bitshares X 2 years from now will have a much better Bitshares than the people who got in on it first but at the same time the people who got in on it first will have had the time to make their hedges so that they can avoid losing their positions.

Just so I understand, 500 million new shares created? If someone chooses to access their new shares before the 2 year period, where does the penalty go. Is it burned? Does it go to the delegates?

It ought to be burned. That is a good question to ask.


Without knowing the burn rate we cannot really say if it will even make a difference that 500 million new shares are created. It's very possible that some breakthrough could happen and the burn rate could dramatically increase to compensate for the new shares created.

The idea here is that Bytemaster seems to have done a stakeholder analysis and wants to unify stakeholders in the community.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 05:18:01 pm by luckybit »
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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2014, 05:15:19 pm »
I was against any increase of BTSX supply at first but following the discussion convinced me the merge is the right thing to do. Fully support the proposed allocation. Let's get it done!
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Offline ag

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2014, 05:18:22 pm »
I still am not convinced why we have the merge DAC's into one. this seems not preferable.

I think I have solution to the bitUSD competing issue, which I think is largest problem. that solution is for DAC's that need a stable medium of exchange to accept user issued bitUSD IOU's as means of payment. as long as we are growing bitshares bitUSD adoption through other DAC's, funding and network effect seems less of issue.

I explained this idea yesterday in two other posts. still would like to know the problem with this. as it stands I don't accept merging DAC's..

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you can have bitUSD gateways on the vote and dns chains. In the simplest form, just a user with bitshares and vote/DNS account which take bitUSD deposits on the bitshares blockchain, and issue bitUSD IOU's (essentially user issued tokens) on the second blockchain. these IOU's just facilitate exchange on the specific DAC. for instance with the music DAC these IOU's are used to buy artist coin or with DNS domains. the person receiving these IOU's will want to redeem them immediately with the gateway for interest bearing bitUSD.

Quote
It's the same concept of bitstamp taking dollar deposits and issuing IOUS on the ripple ledger. this is transferring the dollar from the bank ledger to ripple ledger. A bitshares/peertrack gateway would take deposits in bitshares bitUSD, issue IOUS on peertracks and correspondingly redeem / destroy those IOUS.


Offline donkeypong

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2014, 05:18:42 pm »
I support this proposal. Thank you for your long term vision, for the high value you place on community consensus, and for taking action decisively rather than letting things drag on. This is it...the new BitShares!

Offline luckybit

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2014, 05:20:11 pm »
3% VOTE
3% DNS
7% PTS
7% AGS
80% BTSX

So, to recap: there will be 2.5 billion BTS. 3% of these are allocated to DNS, that's 75 million BTS. The initial allocation of DNS granted 10% to toast, that's 7.5 million BTS or about 200.000 USD at current price. IOW toast will receive 200k USD for bringing the DNS chain to the point where it is now, which is little more than an initial clone of the bitshares toolkit?

And you call that a "merger" and "capital infusion"? Oh boy.

Wow you're really following the money. Did you find anything else?
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Offline Shentist

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2014, 05:23:08 pm »
this is not a merger !

i am in favor of the merger, but this allocation is rediculus.

DNS 3% - thanks for the suggestion my DNS are now worthless but today the marketcap is 4.1 million, but you tell me it is worth 1.5 million??? holy crap!!!!
AGS is promised 10% of any future DAC I3 will create - this is a new DAC you can not brack your promise aka Social Consensus they need 10%

in my eyes this is not a merger, this is a take over of BTSX holders and the robbery of early funders. i am speachless!

2 years with not able to sell is OK if any merger partner has to do it. So no trading for the next 2 years, because BTSX will not be tradeable in the future for 2 years. Otherwise forget it. I don't see the need why i have to lock up my DNS for 2 years.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 05:25:05 pm by Shentist »

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2014, 05:23:42 pm »
You've done it again. All is good, but the vesting period is totally screwed.


Make the vesting start at least at 50%, and then greadually get to 100% over 2 years. To start the vesting at 0% is ludicrous.

You will regret this and very soon if you implement as suggested.

Offline Ander

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2014, 05:25:14 pm »
3/3/7/7/80 is similar to the 10/10/80 proposal.  (Which wasnt calculating DNS and VOTE in there - and the DNS and VOTE shares are pretty much allocations to PTS and AGS).  This lines up well with market caps so it is pretty fair.


I do think the 2 year lockout period is very long.  2 years is forever in crypto. 


That said, as a primarily BTSX holder I definitely vote yes.  The only ones who might have a big complaint I think are those mostly in AGS/PTS, because the lockout period is very long.
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Offline biophil

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2014, 05:32:31 pm »
Questions: Vesting period is for who? PTS/AGS/DNS/VOTE? Or just PTS/AGS? Or... other?

Shentist also mentioned this - why the incredibly low valuation for DNS? Anybody who's smart should go sell all their DNS right now because if this proposal goes through, the price of DNS will crash by almost two-thirds, or much more than that if DNS is included in the vesting thing.

Edit: People can argue about the length of the vesting period; but like Ander said, 2 years is forever in crypto. A 2-year period will utterly crush the price of PTS because people can trade them for BTSX and get liquidity, and currently BTSX and PTS give equal amounts of BTS for the value. I'd expect a 50% drop in PTS price would be mild.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 05:35:21 pm by biophil »
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Offline CryptoPrometheus

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2014, 05:33:25 pm »
The long lockout period seems fair for AGS and even perhaps PTS, but I think the VOTE and DNS crowd were expecting liquidity sooner. Would it be too confusing to put the VOTE and DNS allocations on a shorter liquidity schedule, like perhaps 6 months?
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Offline muse-umum

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2014, 05:34:04 pm »
3% for dns ?
2 years vesting period ?
can someone please tell me it’s a joke ?

Offline bytemaster

Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2014, 05:37:06 pm »
3% VOTE
3% DNS
7% PTS
7% AGS
80% BTSX

So, to recap: there will be 2.5 billion BTS. 3% of these are allocated to DNS, that's 75 million BTS. The initial allocation of DNS granted 10% to toast, that's 7.5 million BTS or about 200.000 USD at current price. IOW toast will receive 200k USD for bringing the DNS chain to the point where it is now, which is little more than an initial clone of the bitshares toolkit?

And you call that a "merger" and "capital infusion"? Oh boy.

Toast will not be including his developer grant.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2014, 05:38:56 pm »
The long lockout period seems fair for AGS and even perhaps PTS, but I think the VOTE and DNS crowd were expecting liquidity sooner. Would it be too confusing to put the VOTE and DNS allocations on a shorter liquidity schedule, like perhaps 6 months?

I agree, DNS should have a shorter period.... perhaps 6 months.
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.