Author Topic: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS  (Read 4274 times)

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Offline bytemaster

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2014, 03:17:34 pm »
I ended up giving my liquidity in AGS for DNS shares and ended up with a loss when the price plunged since I had to sell before it loses completely their value...Not only gave away liquidity for a year but also took a loss within a window of 20 minutes from the announcement. Unbelievable...

For the record, I didn't sell any of my DNS shares to other less-informed buyers. 
I still have every last one of them.  I guess they'll be good souvenirs for the DAC Hall of Fame.

 :)

Likewise, we still own all of our DNS as is verifiable by the blockchain.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline biophil

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2014, 03:19:22 pm »
I ended up giving my liquidity in AGS for DNS shares and ended up with a loss when the price plunged since I had to sell before it loses completely their value...Not only gave away liquidity for a year but also took a loss within a window of 20 minutes from the announcement. Unbelievable...

For the record, I didn't sell any of my DNS shares to other less-informed buyers. 
I still have every last one of them.  I guess they'll be good souvenirs for the DAC Hall of Fame.

 :)

This is worth publicizing. There was no insider trading prior to the public announcement.

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Offline xeroc

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2014, 04:04:48 pm »
For the record, I didn't sell any of my DNS shares to other less-informed buyers. 
I still have every last one of them.  I guess they'll be good souvenirs for the DAC Hall of Fame.
Not that I have many .. but I did neither sell them to less-informed .. HODLing :)
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Offline sschechter

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2014, 07:03:35 pm »
Folks, lets be honest here.  Of all the people that bought DNS on an exchange, how many of you were waiting for the coinmarketcap listing so you can flip it and make a buck?

To the guy who bought DNS at 400 satoshi - you panic bought on no news after seeing a massive price rise, and your fear of missing out greedily caused you to make a poor decision.  Sucks for you, don't do that again.  Its a lesson every investor will eventually learn, whether the easy way, or the hard way (myself included).

To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

And Toast, I know you're pissed, but why the hell did you rush to release a product with no features?  Why were you in a such a hurry to make your ideas tradable to the point where you're doing midnight emergency builds by yourself?

Placing value on ideas is a risky business.  You can make a lot of money, and you can also get badly burned. If you're crying, you invested money you can't afford to lose.  Investor life lesson number 2.

What was the estimated market cap of DNS before the crash, 4 million? For a BitShares fork with a new splash screen? Does that sound like a proper valuation for a company with a cloned tradable token and no features, run by a recent college grad with limited life experience and real world business knowledge, on a project that is devoid of critical manpower and infrastructure? If you ask me, bytemasters proposal is more than fair, to the point its sane. Ideas don't realize themselves, they requires competent handlers to execute.

Disclaimer: I own a substantial amount of DNS through AGS.  I also own BTSX, PTS, and eventually NOTES.

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PTS: PvBUyPrDRkJLVXZfvWjdudRtQgv1Fcy5Qe

Offline toast

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2014, 07:16:48 pm »
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2014, 07:17:15 pm »
I think we have made all DNS holders whole except those who held their DNS on an exchange.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline sschechter

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2014, 07:32:03 pm »
 +5%
I think we have made all DNS holders whole except those who held their DNS on an exchange.
BTSX: sschechter
PTS: PvBUyPrDRkJLVXZfvWjdudRtQgv1Fcy5Qe

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2014, 07:37:58 pm »
Quote
To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

You must be referring to me so to answer your question, I wouldn't have sold a single DNS until at least we beat Namecoin no matter how long this would have taken... 1month - 1yr - 2yrs...Completely irrelevant. I base all my investments based on the speed of development and economic fundamentals. That is the reason I am not and will not sell a single BTSX before we reach the 1 billion market cap at least, no matter how long it takes...1yr - 5yrs... And if we don't reach that cap well I will probably lose my investment.

That post although fully on board with DNS getting on BTS, just gave me the impression that DNS just didn't have any value anymore..


Offline sschechter

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2014, 07:45:08 pm »
Quote
To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

You must be referring to me so to answer your question, I wouldn't have sold a single DNS until at least we beat Namecoin no matter how long this would have taken... 1month - 1yr - 2yrs...Completely irrelevant. I base all my investments based on the speed of development and economic fundamentals. That is the reason I am not and will not sell a single BTSX before we reach the 1 billion market cap at least, no matter how long it takes...1yr - 5yrs... And if we don't reach that cap well I will probably lose my investment.

That post although fully on board with DNS getting on BTS, just gave me the impression that DNS just didn't have any value anymore..

I hate seeing Red too.  I'm glad we're on the same page when it comes to the future of BitShares.  In the long run, this will strengthen the system.
BTSX: sschechter
PTS: PvBUyPrDRkJLVXZfvWjdudRtQgv1Fcy5Qe

Offline xh3

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2014, 01:37:03 pm »
Folks, lets be honest here.  Of all the people that bought DNS on an exchange, how many of you were waiting for the coinmarketcap listing so you can flip it and make a buck?

To the guy who bought DNS at 400 satoshi - you panic bought on no news after seeing a massive price rise, and your fear of missing out greedily caused you to make a poor decision.  Sucks for you, don't do that again.  Its a lesson every investor will eventually learn, whether the easy way, or the hard way (myself included).

To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

And Toast, I know you're pissed, but why the hell did you rush to release a product with no features?  Why were you in a such a hurry to make your ideas tradable to the point where you're doing midnight emergency builds by yourself?

Placing value on ideas is a risky business.  You can make a lot of money, and you can also get badly burned. If you're crying, you invested money you can't afford to lose.  Investor life lesson number 2.

What was the estimated market cap of DNS before the crash, 4 million? For a BitShares fork with a new splash screen? Does that sound like a proper valuation for a company with a cloned tradable token and no features, run by a recent college grad with limited life experience and real world business knowledge, on a project that is devoid of critical manpower and infrastructure? If you ask me, bytemasters proposal is more than fair, to the point its sane. Ideas don't realize themselves, they requires competent handlers to execute.

Disclaimer: I own a substantial amount of DNS through AGS.  I also own BTSX, PTS, and eventually NOTES.

+5%

That's the meat of it right there.  There are a couple things to keep in mind regarding all of this "merger" business. 

One is that it involves a certain number of "rich" or "powerful" people whose support I3 needs.  All the proposals are designed to placate these people first.  Small players have no power, and so have little say in the merger.

Two is that buying DNS on an exchange was a pure gamble.  In the interest of your long term trading success, It would have been better to get burned and learn the lesson, than to expect to be made whole when you speculate and lose. ( I lost some too :-/)

Three  I3 giving their 10% in DNS to the traders was a pr move to buy goodwill from the community, showcase their integrity, and their lack of inside trading.  They would've had to do this, and likely will have to do more to get the fishy smell off of them.  They have shaken people's confidence and the integrity of their word with this change of plans.  The reality is that although this "merger" is probably an inprovement, I3 still broke promises to it's supporters, It sold a bill of goods that was not delivered.

Fourth  these company f*ckups highlight some of the recurring problems with I3.  Broken promises is one.  Remember keyhotee?  Lack of communication.  It can be really hard to find the relevant information/ press releases etc.  Unnecessary complication.  It feels sometimes like complexity is being showcased, not hidden.  If DACs are going to be mainstream and loved there, people can't be privy to even a hint of confusion.  There must be a zen-like ease of usage, people want cognitive ease and security above all else.

The tech is great, but pure tech is not enough. Pure talent is not enough. (The same way that many great bands never get famous.) These weaknesses have to be addressed and soon.  The bitshares brand needs to be so smooth and simple that it slips into people's minds with no resistance. People want a way out of the banks, but if they cannot be sold on it in 5 seconds or less, most won't.

Offline inarizushi

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2014, 04:13:16 pm »
Folks, lets be honest here.  Of all the people that bought DNS on an exchange, how many of you were waiting for the coinmarketcap listing so you can flip it and make a buck?

To the guy who bought DNS at 400 satoshi - you panic bought on no news after seeing a massive price rise, and your fear of missing out greedily caused you to make a poor decision.  Sucks for you, don't do that again.  Its a lesson every investor will eventually learn, whether the easy way, or the hard way (myself included).

To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

And Toast, I know you're pissed, but why the hell did you rush to release a product with no features?  Why were you in a such a hurry to make your ideas tradable to the point where you're doing midnight emergency builds by yourself?

Placing value on ideas is a risky business.  You can make a lot of money, and you can also get badly burned. If you're crying, you invested money you can't afford to lose.  Investor life lesson number 2.

What was the estimated market cap of DNS before the crash, 4 million? For a BitShares fork with a new splash screen? Does that sound like a proper valuation for a company with a cloned tradable token and no features, run by a recent college grad with limited life experience and real world business knowledge, on a project that is devoid of critical manpower and infrastructure? If you ask me, bytemasters proposal is more than fair, to the point its sane. Ideas don't realize themselves, they requires competent handlers to execute.

Disclaimer: I own a substantial amount of DNS through AGS.  I also own BTSX, PTS, and eventually NOTES.

+5%

That's the meat of it right there.  There are a couple things to keep in mind regarding all of this "merger" business. 

One is that it involves a certain number of "rich" or "powerful" people whose support I3 needs.  All the proposals are designed to placate these people first.  Small players have no power, and so have little say in the merger.

Two is that buying DNS on an exchange was a pure gamble.  In the interest of your long term trading success, It would have been better to get burned and learn the lesson, than to expect to be made whole when you speculate and lose. ( I lost some too :-/)

Three  I3 giving their 10% in DNS to the traders was a pr move to buy goodwill from the community, showcase their integrity, and their lack of inside trading.  They would've had to do this, and likely will have to do more to get the fishy smell off of them.  They have shaken people's confidence and the integrity of their word with this change of plans.  The reality is that although this "merger" is probably an inprovement, I3 still broke promises to it's supporters, It sold a bill of goods that was not delivered.

Fourth  these company f*ckups highlight some of the recurring problems with I3.  Broken promises is one.  Remember keyhotee?  Lack of communication.  It can be really hard to find the relevant information/ press releases etc.  Unnecessary complication.  It feels sometimes like complexity is being showcased, not hidden.  If DACs are going to be mainstream and loved there, people can't be privy to even a hint of confusion.  There must be a zen-like ease of usage, people want cognitive ease and security above all else.

The tech is great, but pure tech is not enough. Pure talent is not enough. (The same way that many great bands never get famous.) These weaknesses have to be addressed and soon.  The bitshares brand needs to be so smooth and simple that it slips into people's minds with no resistance. People want a way out of the banks, but if they cannot be sold on it in 5 seconds or less, most won't.

Broken promises is much MUCH better than a failed product... Every broken promise had a rational justification and increased our chance of getting BTS to the top.

bitUSD will be a no brainer and easy to market. Many simple products can run on BTS without the user knowing what happens beside. The tech is the single most important thing for long term growth.
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Offline toast

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2014, 04:23:59 pm »
Folks, lets be honest here.  Of all the people that bought DNS on an exchange, how many of you were waiting for the coinmarketcap listing so you can flip it and make a buck?

To the guy who bought DNS at 400 satoshi - you panic bought on no news after seeing a massive price rise, and your fear of missing out greedily caused you to make a poor decision.  Sucks for you, don't do that again.  Its a lesson every investor will eventually learn, whether the easy way, or the hard way (myself included).

To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

And Toast, I know you're pissed, but why the hell did you rush to release a product with no features?  Why were you in a such a hurry to make your ideas tradable to the point where you're doing midnight emergency builds by yourself?

Placing value on ideas is a risky business.  You can make a lot of money, and you can also get badly burned. If you're crying, you invested money you can't afford to lose.  Investor life lesson number 2.

What was the estimated market cap of DNS before the crash, 4 million? For a BitShares fork with a new splash screen? Does that sound like a proper valuation for a company with a cloned tradable token and no features, run by a recent college grad with limited life experience and real world business knowledge, on a project that is devoid of critical manpower and infrastructure? If you ask me, bytemasters proposal is more than fair, to the point its sane. Ideas don't realize themselves, they requires competent handlers to execute.

Disclaimer: I own a substantial amount of DNS through AGS.  I also own BTSX, PTS, and eventually NOTES.

The point of launching as a proto-DAC without features was to hire more developers without asking I3 for money. That part worked - dbrock, derrick, and greg (and later drltc) were all able to work in parallel and make progress I couldn't have made by myself.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline pc

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2014, 04:49:59 pm »
Broken promises is much MUCH better than a failed product... Every broken promise had a rational justification and increased our chance of getting BTS to the top.

That attitude sucks. The aims do not justify the means.

If you break promises it means you can't be trusted. And trust is what cryptocurrencies are about.

Btw, there is no proof that the product would have failed without breaking promises. Actually, a couple of days ago everyone was quite happy with the products.
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Offline inarizushi

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2014, 05:04:59 pm »
Broken promises is much MUCH better than a failed product... Every broken promise had a rational justification and increased our chance of getting BTS to the top.

That attitude sucks. The aims do not justify the means.

If you break promises it means you can't be trusted. And trust is what cryptocurrencies are about.

Btw, there is no proof that the product would have failed without breaking promises. Actually, a couple of days ago everyone was quite happy with the products.

First, it's arguable that promises haven't been broken. I won't argue here, the forum is full of posts. Personally, I believe that probably the promises have been broken, but I'm happy with that. But there are some good arguments out there that the promises have not been broken.

Second, we should trust BM not on his promises, but on his justifications and arguments. The promises weren't a contract. He has to evolve and change his mind, so he can't make unbreakable promises. His arguments, however, are extremely clear and sound. You may not have let them sink, and you may not accept them, but once you accept them, you can only accept the merger. He was in a position in which it was a logical impossibility to hold the different promises he had made : without the merger, he would have had to compete against himself. Moreover, he realized that anybody can fork the whole thing and outcompete BTSX, and that in the cryptoworld, the winner/best technology takes all.
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Offline Riverhead

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2014, 01:34:49 am »
Actually I would venture to say trust is exactly what it isn't about. Trustless is nearly the whole point.

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