Author Topic: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration  (Read 8251 times)

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Offline arhag

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So why do we need account registration to begin with ?  Does everyone think TITAN names are wonderful?  If BTSX takes off the namespace will be so full people will forever be sending funds to the wrong people.  There are numerous scenarios where a name can be misspelled resulting in lost funds.  If you say a name, you're far more likely to get it wrong than listing off characters. 

Put dashes in there !  Thats what NXT did.  Credit cards, MS product registration codes.. they all have things that break up the address. 

I just don't get the account names.  It has just opened a whole big security hole with squatters that are using the failure of human memory as a vector for attack.  It sounds wonderful at first.. but really really think about all the implications before insisting on  them.  Sure it is nice to be away from your computer and be able to write down your address.. but what are the other use cases that give much value ?

There is a lot I agree with here. I think we put too much emphasis on the globally-recognized, human-memorable (sometimes...) TITAN names. I still think they should exist as an easy way for people to share their online identity with others in the context of a real world meeting (perhaps specifically in a situation where use of modern technology such as smartphones is not possible or inconvenient). But for basically every other situation I think people should use the globally unique hash and for their convenience people should use local aliases for their contacts.

What are your thoughts on my comments in the posts here and here?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 07:23:00 am by arhag »

Offline gamey

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So why do we need account registration to begin with ?  Does everyone think TITAN names are wonderful?  If BTSX takes off the namespace will be so full people will forever be sending funds to the wrong people.  There are numerous scenarios where a name can be misspelled resulting in lost funds.  If you say a name, you're far more likely to get it wrong than listing off characters. 

Put dashes in there !  Thats what NXT did.  Credit cards, MS product registration codes.. they all have things that break up the address. 

I just don't get the account names.  It has just opened a whole big security hole with squatters that are using the failure of human memory as a vector for attack.  It sounds wonderful at first.. but really really think about all the implications before insisting on  them.  Sure it is nice to be away from your computer and be able to write down your address.. but what are the other use cases that give much value ?

I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline alphaBar

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...you can't interact like I would expect from a reasonable/educated/intelligent person. 
get some meds.

lol

Offline mira

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Thanks sschechter - your mockup helped me to understand the OP

Offline gamey

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All I ask in exchange for my idea is a public shaming of everyone who has accused me of trying to sabotage BTS. ;)

Yea, one below average idea and you've redeemed all your over the top hostile negativity.  Yea, you got it buddy.

It's a great idea, solves the problem completely. But I would expect nothing different from you - accusing me of hostile negativity while constantly disparaging me and my work.

One thing I've learned is it better really really be something if I am going to interact with you because you've shown time and time again that you can't interact like I would expect from a reasonable/educated/intelligent person. 

I'm not sure how it solve the problem.   How many steps are in the current solution and how many steps are in your solution? 

It is obvious how highly you think of your own thoughts given how you handled yourself the other night when telling Toast that his point about giving up 150k is invalid.  Grow up or get some meds.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline sschechter

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I like the idea but I don't like the name.  No need to invent another gimmicky term when that term implies that what you're doing is stupid.  Convincing people that Proof of Waste is a good idea is not much different than convincing people Proof Im an Asshole is a good idea.  Proof of Anything is a crypto fad, as well as FUD....can we stop saying that already? DPOS is still innovative and legit though  8)

They say a picture is worth a thousand words....that must be true when you're picture has a thousand words right?

I created a simple mockup illustrating (low hanging fruit) what I think the app is currently lacking - a friendly, help centric based user experience.



......damn 32 replies since I started this post
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Offline alphaBar

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All I ask in exchange for my idea is a public shaming of everyone who has accused me of trying to sabotage BTS. ;)

Yea, one below average idea and you've redeemed all your over the top hostile negativity.  Yea, you got it buddy.

It's a great idea, solves the problem completely. But I would expect nothing different from you - accusing me of hostile negativity while constantly disparaging me and my work.

Offline luckybit

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One of the biggest hurdles we face is getting new accounts registered without spamming the network.   The cost to register an account is about $0.01 and to grab new users we require going through 3rd party centralized services to help people register their account.  This harms the whole experience.

I would like to propose we allow new accounts to be registered in exchange for a "proof of waste" of $0.01.   A CPU burning 100W for 1 hour at $0.10/KWH would do the trick.

From a user experience point of view it would be "slow" compared to using a centralized service would could verify your email in 5 minutes... but the centralized services would cost the network more than $0.01 per user to operate.  This would then have to be paid for via delegate pay. 

A solid user acquisition plan would easily handle the registration for the user and $0.01 trx fee is likely nothing compared to the value of signing up a user.  So perhaps the entire the POW registration has no effective value.   

Why didn't you think of this sooner. This makes perfect sense and seems to be what you originally planned for Keyhotee.

A better suggestion, how difficult would it be to use storage space instead of the CPU fee? A cost in storage space or ram might be just as good but I suppose either way can work.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 06:43:56 am by luckybit »
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Offline gamey

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All I ask in exchange for my idea is a public shaming of everyone who has accused me of trying to sabotage BTS. ;)

Yea, one below average idea and you've redeemed all your over the top hostile negativity.  Yea, you got it buddy.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline alphaBar

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All I ask in exchange for my idea is a public shaming of everyone who has accused me of trying to sabotage BTS. ;)

Offline mira

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My conclusion is that users will almost always be brought in via a helper service and that this thread was mostly to get the idea out of my head and discarded as well as spur ideas on how to make it easier for people to get into BTS.

I was wondering about this on a smaller/niche level - musicians/digital artisans as helper services, offering a particular track/item for a small donation w/entry of account name, and .01 BTS is sent to register your account.

Didn't notice this comment by BM, but I think my solution (above) actually solves the issue without circumventing the "helper service", which I agree is the most logical entry point. In fact I think the BTS website could require account registration with a built-in faucet before downloading the client. This way users will simply launch their client and enter their user/pass to get started.

that does sound so much simpler (for the user)

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Offline alphaBar

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My conclusion is that users will almost always be brought in via a helper service and that this thread was mostly to get the idea out of my head and discarded as well as spur ideas on how to make it easier for people to get into BTS.

I was wondering about this on a smaller/niche level - musicians/digital artisans as helper services, offering a particular track/item for a small donation w/entry of account name, and .01 BTS is sent to register your account.

Didn't notice this comment by BM, but I think my solution (above) actually solves the issue without circumventing the "helper service", which I agree is the most logical entry point. In fact I think the BTS website could require account registration with a built-in faucet before downloading the client. This way users will simply launch their client and enter their user/pass to get started.

Offline mira

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My conclusion is that users will almost always be brought in via a helper service and that this thread was mostly to get the idea out of my head and discarded as well as spur ideas on how to make it easier for people to get into BTS.

I was wondering about this on a smaller/niche level - musicians/digital artisans as helper services, offering a particular track/item for a small donation w/entry of account name, and .01 BTS is sent to register your account. 

Offline alphaBar

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I think I have a solution:

We create a transaction type that involves registering a "free-floating" account name and a password hash. This "free floating" name could then be "claimed" by any wallet by simply broadcasting a transaction that proves they are in possession of the password. This way, faucets and exchanges could pay for account registrations using the regular security mechanisms (captcha) and broadcast those names as free-floating registered accounts. Then a user would simply launch their client, enter the password they have chosen, and link the registered account name to their private keys. Here is a step-by-step illustration:

1) User launches their client which says "visit any of the following sites to register your account: BTSfaucet.com, BTSregister.com, Bter.com, etc. etc.
2) User visits one of those sites (possibly in a web view, or in their own browser)
3) The site has a captcha or requires email verification or whatever else to prevent spam. After passing the challenge, the site asks the user to select a username and a password (at least 10 characters - no need to be super-secure here). The site broadcasts a "free floating" account registration (including fee) and redirects the user back to their client ("Done! Now just open your client to claim your username").
4) The user returns to their client and enters the new username and password to generate a new transaction claiming the username (ie, linking the username to the private keys of that particular client).

The “chicken and egg” problem is not due to a lack of funds. Plenty of faucets and exchanges would pay for the .01 BTS necessary to register accounts. The real problem is the use of the “ugly hash” to receive that first transaction My solution solves this issue directly, without making payment-free registration (which is not necessary).

"Free-floating" accounts would be ineligible to receive funds until claimed.