Author Topic: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)  (Read 18490 times)

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Offline Ander

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PTS is dead. It makes no sense to sharedrop on an outdated prototype system that people still have large hoards of. PTS holders have been given a sharedrop and a snapshot on the 5th for BTS distribution.

If I was a 3rd party developer I would want my application to be used by as many people as possible so I would distribute it on BTS as it has a larger userbase and my shares would not be held by just a few individuals who have hoards of PTS.


There once was a time when everyone who was involved in bitshares had PTS and/or AGS, and to sharedrop to them was to sharedrop to the whole bitshares community.


Now, much of the community still has PTS/AGS, but there are many newcomers as well who are mostly in BTS. 

In the future as bitshares grow, this later category will grow, and more and more will just have BTS.



It is up to developers to chosoe their target group correctly.  Do they want to try to get buyin of the whole bitshares community, by sharedropping BTS?  Or do they want to specifically target early adopters, by sharedropping PTS/AGS? 

This is a decision they must make, and depending on the project, I think either one could be the correct decision.  If you are looking to get the widespread community to start using your product, you might sharedrop BTS.  If you are just looking for a small group to start building your technology, you could go with PTS and try to get more core supporters. 

(Or you could also sharedrop both!)

In the end, it is new project developers that will decide what to do with their projects.  I hope that these developers will make intelligent decisions based on the goals they want to achieve with the sharedrop.
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Offline inarizushi

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So are we doing anything with the PTS we have any longer, or what is the plan for now.  Went through the thread and more confused than before.

Is there a use for it any longer?
PTS hasn't changed. Just 3I' s promotion of it and involvement in 3rd party DACs.

The perception of the community is that without 3I's on going endorsement it is worthless.

My feeling is that the ProtoShare is just starting to come into its own. As BTS grows and becomes successful more and more 3rd party DACs will want in on the action. The promise, or selling point, of PTS was always, "Get a piece of every DAC that honors the social contract". So far there has been a handful of DACs that have honored it and everyone is ready to call it, "Mission accomplished".

Anyway, there is a project going on to convert PTS to a DPoS coin here: http://pts.cubeconnex.com/index.php?topic=13.0

Since this is the Bitshares forum, and not a forum for DACs or ProtoShares in general, I suspect the PTS crew will get run off sooner than later.

If PTS still perfectly represent the early donations and the social contract, then PTS holders shouldn't have received any diluted BTS during the merger... And many were sold at very low prices with the expectation that they don't have value anymore, so it is quite absurd to say that it still represents the same thing.
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Offline islandking

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PTS is dead. It makes no sense to sharedrop on an outdated prototype system that people still have large hoards of. PTS holders have been given a sharedrop and a snapshot on the 5th for BTS distribution.

If I was a 3rd party developer I would want my application to be used by as many people as possible so I would distribute it on BTS as it has a larger userbase and my shares would not be held by just a few individuals who have hoards of PTS.
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Offline Riverhead

So are we doing anything with the PTS we have any longer, or what is the plan for now.  Went through the thread and more confused than before.

Is there a use for it any longer?
PTS hasn't changed. Just 3I' s promotion of it and involvement in 3rd party DACs.

The perception of the community is that without 3I's on going endorsement it is worthless.

My feeling is that the ProtoShare is just starting to come into its own. As BTS grows and becomes successful more and more 3rd party DACs will want in on the action. The promise, or selling point, of PTS was always, "Get a piece of every DAC that honors the social contract". So far there has been a handful of DACs that have honored it and everyone is ready to call it, "Mission accomplished".

Anyway, there is a project going on to convert PTS to a DPoS coin here: http://pts.cubeconnex.com/index.php?topic=13.0

Since this is the Bitshares forum, and not a forum for DACs or ProtoShares in general, I suspect the PTS crew will get run off sooner than later.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 10:00:20 pm by Riverhead »

Offline nyse

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I still keep some PTS in wallet, and will keep them forever

Offline gamey

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It depends if you have interest in what it is for and the idea of multiple DACs etc.  It is all third parties now, so there are no definite answers.   Obviously there are people still buying it, so sell it if you want, or keep it.  shrug
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Offline Murderistic

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So are we doing anything with the PTS we have any longer, or what is the plan for now.  Went through the thread and more confused than before.

Is there a use for it any longer? 

Offline ticklebiscuit

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+1 As a newbie myself it took me a few hours to figure it all out. Its extremely confusing and if 3rd parties start releasing share drops to PTS then it would hurt BTS in the long run.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of 3rd party DAC.
Would you do share drop percentage of your business to low value coin with small community  or would you shared drop to high value coin with big community?  For me answer is very simple from business point of view. Big community with a lot of developers will always be priority for any 3rd party DAC.

This makes sense until one realizes there are potentially thousands of chains with alight variations and that some chains may be chosen by a superDAC while others are not. Then it becomes apparent that sharedropping on different communities at the same time is a far better strategy than sharedropping everything on a huge superDAC like BTS alone.

Offline fluxer555

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Sharedropping on your competitor combined with vesting would be smart if you're going that route.

Offline vegolino

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If I had an idea for DAC my first choice would be BitShares platform and all support from bytemaster and the crew (developing, marketing etc.)
Price for this is 20% min share drop to BitShares community.

If I didn't want anything to do with BitShares than I certainly would not drop 10% to PTS as some of this guys if not all are still BitShares holders.
My logic may be wrong, but time will show  :)

Offline Stan

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+1 As a newbie myself it took me a few hours to figure it all out. Its extremely confusing and if 3rd parties start releasing share drops to PTS then it would hurt BTS in the long run.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of 3rd party DAC.
Would you do share drop percentage of your business to low value coin with small community  or would you shared drop to high value coin with big community?  For me answer is very simple from business point of view. Big community with a lot of developers will always be priority for any 3rd party DAC.

You're saying that you'd sharedrop to BTS? Your #1 competitor? The chain that's most likely to spurn your sharedrop, sell the dropped shares, buy more shares of their own DAC, and then integrate your technology into their own chain? That seems like an odd choice.

If it were me, I'd sharedrop to a coin that's owned 100% by people who want to be early adopters of promising new technology.

What's wrong with share-dropping on a competitor? 
You are presumably interested in attracting all the universe of people who believe in that competitor's business model. 
Where else are you going to find them?
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Offline biophil

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+1 As a newbie myself it took me a few hours to figure it all out. Its extremely confusing and if 3rd parties start releasing share drops to PTS then it would hurt BTS in the long run.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of 3rd party DAC.
Would you do share drop percentage of your business to low value coin with small community  or would you shared drop to high value coin with big community?  For me answer is very simple from business point of view. Big community with a lot of developers will always be priority for any 3rd party DAC.

You're saying that you'd sharedrop to BTS? Your #1 competitor? The chain that's most likely to spurn your sharedrop, sell the dropped shares, buy more shares of their own DAC, and then integrate your technology into their own chain? That seems like an odd choice.

If it were me, I'd sharedrop to a coin that's owned 100% by people who want to be early adopters of promising new technology.
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Offline Riverhead


 +5% As a newbie myself it took me a few hours to figure it all out. Its extremely confusing and if 3rd parties start releasing share drops to PTS then it would hurt BTS in the long run.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of 3rd party DAC.
Would you do share drop percentage of your business to low value coin with small community  or would you shared drop to high value coin with big community?  For me answer is very simple from business point of view. Big community with a lot of developers will always be priority for any 3rd party DAC.

Is that why BTSX share dropped to BTC?  ;D

Kidding aside I think BTS is so huge, complex, and world changing that PTS won't be a blip on its radar. The marketing of BTS will be completely different than that of PTS. Once BTS gains critical mass I'd bet that less than 10% of the users know anything about PTS, AGS, alt coins, etc.

I agree that PTS does not hold any value for BTS now that the snapshot is over. That's true of ANY DAC after the snapshot. Why was no one campaigning to kill PTS on Feb 28th, 2014? Did I miss those threads? Or was it that there were DACs that you knew about coming down the pike you wanted a piece of? If some new DACs announced PTS snapshots would we be back in the mindset of just after Feb 28th snapshot?

What I'm reading here is:
 1) PTS had one mission - Fund BTS. DNS, Vote, Music, PLAY, LOTTO, etc. were just nice bonuses. Now that BTS is here PTS is useless.
 2) Since Dan et al won't be involved in 3rd part DACs and won't be pushing the PTS sales pitch like this time last year it is doomed to failure.
 3) Third party DACs should just snapshot BTS because that's what we all own now and we want to have all the benefits of PTS without having to split our investment dollars.

Offline GaltReport

Sure, let people do what they want.  It's a partly-free country ( :( )...but keeping the same name would be dishonest IMHO because it is not the same "coin" and doesn't represent the same value proposition.

What's different about the value proposition? It grants holders a 10% stake in new DACs. How is that different from the old PTS?

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It's not backed by the development nor funding of the AGS fund.

Yeah, mainly doesn't convey the promise of future BM/I3 DAC sharedrops.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 05:53:06 pm by GaltReport »

Offline Stan

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Isn't this what Dan and Stan said would happen back in November of last year? Back on the old www.invictus-innovations.com website.

I remember them saying that DACs are resilient to death. If DACs were ever abandoned by their devs, large stakeholders would have incentive to keep that DAC going, since the code is open source.

I think this is just nature running its course, and should not be resisted.

Third Law of DAC Robotics:  A DAC should protect its own existence, except when it conflicts with the first two Laws.
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