Author Topic: What's the point of keyhotee?  (Read 4151 times)

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Offline Gekko

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2013, 09:13:25 am »
I2P is the same as any other central server based services.
It is not. I2P is decentralized. It is a "layer on top of the internet" where you can (or will be able to in the future) do everything you can do in the "normal" internet - but encrypted, anonymous, censorship resistant. You can use torrents, e-mail, websites and much more in I2P. For example: if you create a Website in I2P (called eepSite) this website is on the PC you create it on. If you switch off your PC, the website is down. If everybody (every "user") in I2P switches their PC off, the I2P network is dead. There are no "central servers" keeping anything alive. Every user is his own server (and client) and uses other users' I2P-PCs to transfer encrypted data between each other (through tunnels).
Drawbacks so far: it is slow(er). But that should change as more users become active and the software matures.
And you need to run a (java-based) client-software all the time to use it.

While I'm convinced about the ingenuity behind BitShares and DACs, I'm still not sure if Keyhotee is in fact like http://xkcd.com/927/






Offline NineLives

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2013, 04:45:09 pm »
I2P is the same as any other central server based services.
It is not. I2P is decentralized. It is a "layer on top of the internet" where you can (or will be able to in the future) do everything you can do in the "normal" internet - but encrypted, anonymous, censorship resistant. You can use torrents, e-mail, websites and much more in I2P. For example: if you create a Website in I2P (called eepSite) this website is on the PC you create it on. If you switch off your PC, the website is down. If everybody (every "user") in I2P switches their PC off, the I2P network is dead. There are no "central servers" keeping anything alive. Every user is his own server (and client) and uses other users' I2P-PCs to transfer encrypted data between each other (through tunnels).
Drawbacks so far: it is slow(er). But that should change as more users become active and the software matures.
And you need to run a (java-based) client-software all the time to use it.

While I'm convinced about the ingenuity behind BitShares and DACs, I'm still not sure if Keyhotee is in fact like http://xkcd.com/927/

Ahh..  My bad.  i didn't quite read in-depth about I2P.  Thank you for the correction.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2013, 04:51:32 pm »
I2P is the same as any other central server based services.
It is not. I2P is decentralized. It is a "layer on top of the internet" where you can (or will be able to in the future) do everything you can do in the "normal" internet - but encrypted, anonymous, censorship resistant. You can use torrents, e-mail, websites and much more in I2P. For example: if you create a Website in I2P (called eepSite) this website is on the PC you create it on. If you switch off your PC, the website is down. If everybody (every "user") in I2P switches their PC off, the I2P network is dead. There are no "central servers" keeping anything alive. Every user is his own server (and client) and uses other users' I2P-PCs to transfer encrypted data between each other (through tunnels).
Drawbacks so far: it is slow(er). But that should change as more users become active and the software matures.
And you need to run a (java-based) client-software all the time to use it.

While I'm convinced about the ingenuity behind BitShares and DACs, I'm still not sure if Keyhotee is in fact like http://xkcd.com/927/

Ahh..  My bad.  i didn't quite read in-depth about I2P.  Thank you for the correction.

The difference between Keyhotee and everything else:  Ease of Use by Design.

1) I2P is great for what it does, but the economics of the system are wrong.   
2) Keyhotee will form a Darknet automatically, 0 configuration from users required.
3) TOR suffers from relying on 'donation economics' which doesn't scale and thus poor performance.
4) Currently, most web content is hosted in a centralized manner.  A single company can take down the content.
5) PGP is too hard to use, not a good standard and provides poor security due to tendency to 'not use it' or user error.

Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Gekko

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2013, 05:43:28 pm »
Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.
Was it really Macintosh that changed everything? If I think of computer I think of "C64", "MS-DOS" and "Windows". Even if Microsoft stole ideas - those were the mass-products that changed everything, in my opinion. Just like Linux (not Unix!) changed everything later, again - in another way.

To stay on topic: Let me say first that I don't like the name "Keyhotee". Maybe for native english speakers it makes sense in a way... in many other languages it's just like "what?", unlike "Google", "Yahoo" or even "Microsoft" or "Facebook". - But ok, the name shouldn't be the most important thing about it (even if it kind of is if we talk about mass-appeal).

If Keyhotee will be as easy and idiot-proof as WhatsApp, the camera-app on Android or iOS, or even Google, and it looks good - it could become big, because everybody can use it no matter how dumb.
If it is free, open and really secure - it gets the nerds and techies, too. Hopefully.

Another thing is that "the first thing I see" when I google Keyhotee is "some strange company" creating a "just another" product. First thought "another startup wanting to become Facebook. Good luck. Next!" ...
Where is Keyhotee on Wikipedia? It has to be shown that Keyhotee foremost is an "open idea" in community hands, against surveillance, maybe backed by company money but still alive if the company goes bankrupt, and there will be no ads in it, ever, and no "pro-version" to buy. And a clear to see reason why to choose a new, not even born yet, product against "all the others".

If with Keyhotee (damn hard to type, too ;-) ) you want to reach something that will be pre-installed on every new computer and smartphone, you most almost reach the impossible. It's not always the best system that "wins", you have to reach "that certain something" to make it successful. (See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotape_format_war that VHS won!)

Offline bitcool

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2013, 12:28:37 am »
The difference between Keyhotee and everything else:  Ease of Use by Design.

1) I2P is great for what it does, but the economics of the system are wrong.   
2) Keyhotee will form a Darknet automatically, 0 configuration from users required.
3) TOR suffers from relying on 'donation economics' which doesn't scale and thus poor performance.
4) Currently, most web content is hosted in a centralized manner.  A single company can take down the content.
5) PGP is too hard to use, not a good standard and provides poor security due to tendency to 'not use it' or user error.

Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.

Don't you think it's very ambitious for a team of four, or there's more going on behind the scene?

https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/keyhotee/graphs/contributors

Offline devilfish

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2013, 12:40:33 am »
Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.
Was it really Macintosh that changed everything? If I think of computer I think of "C64", "MS-DOS" and "Windows". Even if Microsoft stole ideas - those were the mass-products that changed everything, in my opinion. Just like Linux (not Unix!) changed everything later, again - in another way.

Microsoft stole from Apple who stole from everyone (Xerox is one that comes to mind with the GUI development).
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Offline devilfish

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2013, 12:42:49 am »
Oh and having thought about this over night I think keyhotee is fairly on target with what Invictus are trying to. BitShares are going to need a wallet so they might as well make a fully featured one.
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Offline Pocket Sand

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2013, 05:44:34 am »
I'm really excited with the ease of setup that keyhotee will offer while being able to locally decrypt data using the block chain. In terms of security, people were mentioning earlier about using the type of security the armory wallet uses but if keyhotee will allow third party addons, people could easily add 2-step authentication to provide almost impenetrable security to their wallet (something along the lines of something like digipass dynamic security)



Offline Gekko

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2013, 03:53:08 pm »
BitShares are going to need a wallet so they might as well make a fully featured one.
Let's all hope it doesn't get bloated. I'm more with the Unix philosophy "Write programs that do one thing and do it well."
(I'm thinking about a media player in Keyhotee and stuff like that... Heaven forbid! :) )

Offline bytemaster

Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2013, 04:32:58 pm »
BitShares are going to need a wallet so they might as well make a fully featured one.
Let's all hope it doesn't get bloated. I'm more with the Unix philosophy "Write programs that do one thing and do it well."
(I'm thinking about a media player in Keyhotee and stuff like that... Heaven forbid! :) )

Keyhotee will have a client/server architecture locally (like bitcoind) which will allow people to build different user interfaces on top of the core code.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Gekko

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2013, 07:22:46 pm »
To stay on topic: Let me say first that I don't like the name "Keyhotee". Maybe for native english speakers it makes sense in a way... in many other languages it's just like "what?", unlike "Google", "Yahoo" or even "Microsoft" or "Facebook". - But ok, the name shouldn't be the most important thing about it (even if it kind of is if we talk about mass-appeal).
I have to correct myself a bit according to this I think. Maybe "Keyhotee" will be the new "Google", which sounded silly, too.
So in the end - maybe - the name and it's pronunciation don't matter that much.

I'm a little slow on the uptake on some things around I.I.I.
After seeing the Keyhotee video by bytemaster ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pZaTdEtK-8 ) I once again have more questions.
It all sounds a little "too big" to me. The whole 13 minutes I thought "yes, that all makes sense". But the question is: isn't there anything like this already?
Hasn't anybody had the idea to solve those problems about passwords, accounts, et cetera before? Or is there but nobody got attention yet?
It seems like Keyhotee really is something like "the next generation internet" - but why does it take "some company from the countryside" to invent/create something like this "out of the blue"?
I mean there are smart people in the computer industry (and everywhere else) and it is 2013 already.
Do you really think and expect that Keyhotee will be "the new http://" ?
That would be a revolution. Could it be it started "around here" in this forum and with just a few people aware of it's existence?
I mean there's just 1300 people who watched the youtube video above.
Are all of us here really part of something that big?
Frankly I cannot believe it and think maybe I'm missing some important part.


Offline bytemaster

Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2013, 07:38:32 pm »
To stay on topic: Let me say first that I don't like the name "Keyhotee". Maybe for native english speakers it makes sense in a way... in many other languages it's just like "what?", unlike "Google", "Yahoo" or even "Microsoft" or "Facebook". - But ok, the name shouldn't be the most important thing about it (even if it kind of is if we talk about mass-appeal).
I have to correct myself a bit according to this I think. Maybe "Keyhotee" will be the new "Google", which sounded silly, too.
So in the end - maybe - the name and it's pronunciation don't matter that much.

I'm a little slow on the uptake on some things around I.I.I.
After seeing the Keyhotee video by bytemaster ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pZaTdEtK-8 ) I once again have more questions.
It all sounds a little "too big" to me. The whole 13 minutes I thought "yes, that all makes sense". But the question is: isn't there anything like this already?
Hasn't anybody had the idea to solve those problems about passwords, accounts, et cetera before? Or is there but nobody got attention yet?
It seems like Keyhotee really is something like "the next generation internet" - but why does it take "some company from the countryside" to invent/create something like this "out of the blue"?
I mean there are smart people in the computer industry (and everywhere else) and it is 2013 already.
Do you really think and expect that Keyhotee will be "the new http://" ?
That would be a revolution. Could it be it started "around here" in this forum and with just a few people aware of it's existence?
I mean there's just 1300 people who watched the youtube video above.
Are all of us here really part of something that big?
Frankly I cannot believe it and think maybe I'm missing some important part.

This missing ingredient was the decentralized key database that could scale to support billions of users along with BitMessage style communication.  These are both less than 1 year old and the ramifications will take care of the rest.   I do believe that decentralized technologies will replace every major aspect of the internet over the next 15 years.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline robozombie

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2013, 10:11:50 pm »
The difference between Keyhotee and everything else:  Ease of Use by Design.

1) I2P is great for what it does, but the economics of the system are wrong.   
2) Keyhotee will form a Darknet automatically, 0 configuration from users required.
3) TOR suffers from relying on 'donation economics' which doesn't scale and thus poor performance.
4) Currently, most web content is hosted in a centralized manner.  A single company can take down the content.
5) PGP is too hard to use, not a good standard and provides poor security due to tendency to 'not use it' or user error.

Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.

Don't you think it's very ambitious for a team of four, or there's more going on behind the scene?

https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/keyhotee/graphs/contributors

About the phonetics of Keyhotee: for example, for Spanish speakers, it sounds almost like 'Quijote' (derived from the name of the main character of Miguel de Cervantes' landmark novel The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha). I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I like the Keyhotee name  ;D.
Robozombie

Offline bytemaster

Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2013, 10:21:53 pm »
The difference between Keyhotee and everything else:  Ease of Use by Design.

1) I2P is great for what it does, but the economics of the system are wrong.   
2) Keyhotee will form a Darknet automatically, 0 configuration from users required.
3) TOR suffers from relying on 'donation economics' which doesn't scale and thus poor performance.
4) Currently, most web content is hosted in a centralized manner.  A single company can take down the content.
5) PGP is too hard to use, not a good standard and provides poor security due to tendency to 'not use it' or user error.

Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.

Don't you think it's very ambitious for a team of four, or there's more going on behind the scene?

https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/keyhotee/graphs/contributors

About the phonetics of Keyhotee: for example, for Spanish speakers, it sounds almost like 'Quijote' (derived from the name of the main character of Miguel de Cervantes' landmark novel The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha). I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I like the Keyhotee name  ;D.

It was chosen on purpose to refer to Don Quixote.  Most english speakers do not know how to spell or pronounce Quixote.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline robozombie

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2013, 11:25:59 pm »
The difference between Keyhotee and everything else:  Ease of Use by Design.

1) I2P is great for what it does, but the economics of the system are wrong.   
2) Keyhotee will form a Darknet automatically, 0 configuration from users required.
3) TOR suffers from relying on 'donation economics' which doesn't scale and thus poor performance.
4) Currently, most web content is hosted in a centralized manner.  A single company can take down the content.
5) PGP is too hard to use, not a good standard and provides poor security due to tendency to 'not use it' or user error.

Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.

Don't you think it's very ambitious for a team of four, or there's more going on behind the scene?

https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/keyhotee/graphs/contributors

About the phonetics of Keyhotee: for example, for Spanish speakers, it sounds almost like 'Quijote' (derived from the name of the main character of Miguel de Cervantes' landmark novel The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha). I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I like the Keyhotee name  ;D.

It was chosen on purpose to refer to Don Quixote.  Most english speakers do not know how to spell or pronounce Quixote.

It'd sound something like Keyhawttih (With the strong part of the intonation in bold. That's the closest sound to Spanish there is for the word 'Quijote'. The Quixote word is part of the Old version of Spanish language. There's 'México', but the 'x' in that word sounds in a different way in Modern Spanish. That 'x' represents this old language today,though).
Robozombie