Author Topic: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.  (Read 6352 times)

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Offline gamey

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Was 100% Delegate pay 50 BTS per block? At 10 seconds block, that is 6 blocks per minute. 6*60 per hour, 6*60*24 per day, 6*60*24*30=259200 BTS per month. So pay is 50 BTS per block, times 259200 = 12 960 000 BTS. Then we divide this by 101? To get 128316 BTS a month per Delegate.

Delegate Income per month at 100% for different market caps:

$2279 at 35 million, (low-pay fulltime job)
$4558 at 70 million,
$6837 at 105 million, (high-pay fulltime job)
$22790 at 350 million,
$45580 at 700 million,  (3 high pay employees + $250k expenses a year)
$683700 at 10.5 billion..

Very possible I made some error here. Just trying to get an overview.

The amount agrees with any numbers I've come across.  About $2500 a month USD for a full paid delegate.

Now I understand I very much wanted to keep the inflation rate under that of bitcoin.  I still do.  I just hope people realize what 2500 a month buys you in most Western countries.

We need motivations !  Not anti-motivation.
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Offline CLains

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Was 100% Delegate pay 50 BTS per block? At 10 seconds block, that is 6 blocks per minute. 6*60 per hour, 6*60*24 per day, 6*60*24*30=259200 BTS per month. So pay is 50 BTS per block, times 259200 = 12 960 000 BTS. Then we divide this by 101? To get 128316 BTS a month per Delegate.

Delegate Income per month at 100% for different market caps:

$2279 at 35 million, (low-pay fulltime job)
$4558 at 70 million,
$6837 at 105 million, (high-pay fulltime job)
$22790 at 350 million,
$45580 at 700 million,  (3 high pay employees + $250k expenses a year)
$683700 at 10.5 billion..

Very possible I made some error here. Just trying to get an overview.

zerosum

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I can run the tech stuff for 5%.

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I am absolutely certain you can Riverhead.

==============================

Now, can a mod move this thread to the vastly expanding Graveyard sub section of the forum, please.




Offline Riverhead

I can run the tech stuff for 5%.

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Offline fuzzy

I would vote for you. And I like those ideas you mentioned to (possibly) bring value to this sphere. We need some diversity in ideas, not just plain vanilla developers and plain chocolate marketers, but some ideas people trying weird things. Beyond a certain point, I think that sort of innovation will be key for market growth.

Being a delegate makes sense for some, but not for others. You'll need to decide what it means for you. I'm leaning against getting involved that way. I've realized that the things I'm going to do to help BitShares, I probably will do anyway. I'm fortunate that I don't need a job in the meantime, since I have one. If the market cap increases to the point where delegates are making serious money, then my stake means that I'll already have made some good money from the price increase. So I'll leave it for those who need it, and who can add more value than me.

I think there should be a taskforce delegate and it can use a large portion of its funds for community bounties so people can make a little stake in the system for all the work they do.  Sure many people are doing what they are doing because that is what they want to do--for now--but that doesn't mean that giving incentives that everyone can do on a daily basis will not significantly help. 
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline donkeypong

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I would vote for you. And I like those ideas you mentioned to (possibly) bring value to this sphere. We need some diversity in ideas, not just plain vanilla developers and plain chocolate marketers, but some ideas people trying weird things. Beyond a certain point, I think that sort of innovation will be key for market growth.

Being a delegate makes sense for some, but not for others. You'll need to decide what it means for you. I'm leaning against getting involved that way. I've realized that the things I'm going to do to help BitShares, I probably will do anyway. I'm fortunate that I don't need a job in the meantime, since I have one. If the market cap increases to the point where delegates are making serious money, then my stake means that I'll already have made some good money from the price increase. So I'll leave it for those who need it, and who can add more value than me.

zerosum

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Thanks to all who cared enough to respond!


It was useful, informative and I really appreciate the input.


The thread has helped me in determining the answer to the threads question:
"Should I consider  running for a paid delegate"

The answer is unequivocally - 'NO'.




The reasons are many:

 - from personal point of view it does not make sense at all - no one cares if you risk more then you receive, so why bother?

 - from community point of view - not too many people care for this kind of stuff… obviously.

 - from I3 point of view…well I do not really know – it is maybe that early adopters are not that valuable as their baby is growing HUGE now… early adopter did what they did for them, screw them now as they are no longer needed…



I feel like I am in the wrong place at the wrong time. The time calls for paying big bucks for the senseless self-promoters and just the smallest  bone possible to the devs. (The bone is just big enough, on the margin, for those devs., to keep them from running away, imho).


« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 04:11:10 am by tonyk2 »

Offline fuzzy

tonyk could offer to not post anything anymore and thus create value if elected.

That's the kind of posts I was hoping for!
 +5%

lol...best comment ever for comedic value.  Tony knows his stuff and is painfully honest about his opinions.  I can certainly say that I respect it...even when he say's i'm stealing funds from him for the DOTA Tournament! :P

At current Marketcap, what is a 100% delegate paying?   Has anyone made a table that shows the percentages of pay at various marketcaps at varying pay rates (10%,25%,50%,100%...)? 

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ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

julian1

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Lets turn $1,000 into $1,000,000 (or at least 750K).

Would this entail writing a blog or something, to spread the word?
Yes I think it will need a page, a blog or a small website.

In my mind if this goal was achieved, it would be it's own reward and wouldn't need dipping into delegate funding.

Quote
Fast Tight bitUSD Peg

Again, being a market maker and providing liquidity should be a profitable activity by itself. It's the profit opportunities that drive the spread tightness.
True! So you are saying I should not run for delegate?
But being the developer of the best blockchain based product around will be highly profitable for the developers who do it. Why pay them when they will benefit either way by being a BTS holders.?

There's an argument that they provide higher relative value, and they attract external developer resources who are risk-adverse and motivated by short-term salary potiential, rather than capital gain. With that said, I probably wouldn't fund them via inflation either, if it were my choice.

zerosum

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Quote
Lets turn $1,000 into $1,000,000 (or at least 750K).

Would this entail writing a blog or something, to spread the word?
Yes I think it will need a page, a blog or a small website.

In my mind if this goal was achieved, it would be it's own reward and wouldn't need dipping into delegate funding.

Quote
Fast Tight bitUSD Peg

Again, being a market maker and providing liquidity should be a profitable activity by itself. It's the profit opportunities that drive the spread tightness.
True! So you are saying I should not run for delegate?
But being the developer of the best blockchain based product around will be highly profitable for the developers who do it. Why pay them when they will benefit either way by being a BTS holders? Because of this I see a certain flows in this logic.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 08:59:53 pm by tonyk2 »

julian1

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Quote
Lets turn $1,000 into $1,000,000 (or at least 750K).

Would this entail writing a blog or something, to spread the word? In my mind if this goal was achieved, it would be it's own reward and wouldn't need dipping into delegate funding.

Quote
Fast Tight bitUSD Peg

Again, being a market maker and providing liquidity should be a profitable activity by itself. It's the profit opportunities that drive the spread tightness.

zerosum

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@gamey Thanks for posting this very thoughtful post of yours. Really appreciated.



I put this thread/OP out here:

First, to see if BM is at all open to considering including (helping with his shares) to vote for delegate performing similar services. To be honest I have not read at all what is his opinion on that. I mean it is pretty obvious that I will sponsor in most likelihood some development work, but it should be also clear that I will not be the one directly doing the coding.

Second, I want to hear opinions about the ideas in general but the important part is I believe they should work and I will do them risking my own money to implement them.
And no the delegate pay will take many, many months to even get close to covering my exposure resulting from testing those ideas of mine. And I consider most of them (if they work, and they should) bringing pretty direct benefits to BTS, as well as other indirect benefits to the BTS community.

Offline gamey

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There is a real problem with this and putting up the 2 weeks pay.

So for example - you have 4 posters saying yay ! and no one says nay !  So you have to put up a lot of money for the chance to be voted in. One still doesn't know where things stand. It is just putting too much of a burden on legitimate people.

I mean, sure I'll vote for Tony but my stake isn't particularly big. 

The problem is - We're asking people to be paid little, give a lot of their time, and risk sizable money upfront for the chance to do it.  This is a great incentive to keep away scammers but it is also just as much of an incentive to keep away people who might actually provide a lot of value.

Tony is obviously a person very dedicated to Bitshares. He puts a lot of his BTS in collateral and is as active and passionate as anyone. He also seems that he is likely underpaid at whatever he normally does so this is an extra for Bitshares owners. His proposition is a most reasonable one - ASSUMING his peg ideas seem like they should work. AND if we don't think they should work, maybe we can find something better for him to do.

It appears we have taken quite a negative hit on marketcap with the direction things are going, but it is hard to separate out the cause and effect. If we do not take opportunities such as this one then we have shot ourselves in the foot.

Having Tony sit around for what is currently minimum wage and work on things is a positive. If he is willing to take feedback and adjust his approaches then it is even more of a positive.

Edit - I am not trying to say the fund ideas won't work.  I just haven't had enough time to think about them.  I'm not a die-hard market guy so the results of such plans do not really form so readily in my head.  What I am saying that is even if you think those ideas are not the best, then we as a blockchain should work with Tony in some regard.  It would be foolish not to do so.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 08:37:20 pm by gamey »
I speak for myself and only myself.

zerosum

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OP updated with the actual ideas of the kind of services I am interested in providing.

Offline CLains

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Vote Tonyk: The BitShares Bulldog!

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