Is everyone against merger and inflating for stuff out of BTS yet?

[bytemaster]

Personally, I think you're really grasping at straws saying NXT moves the same way as BTS because they had bad news as well. At the same time? By the same amounts? Really?

They havent moved at the same times, the same amounts.  There are definite periods of outperformance on that chart, by one or the other.  Yes, the net result over time was kindof similar, but actually not all that much because BTS is now FAR below NXT.  BTS is 4000 sat and NXT is 5000, thats 25% higher than us.
BTS has pretty much been getting crushed by every single major crypto out there except for one or two.

The main reason is because the whole merger and dilution change was completely bungled from a PR perspective.

Please don't compare price without considering supply. 

[Ander]

Personally, I think you're really grasping at straws saying NXT moves the same way as BTS because they had bad news as well. At the same time? By the same amounts? Really?

They havent moved at the same times, the same amounts.  There are definite periods of outperformance on that chart, by one or the other.  Yes, the net result over time was kindof similar, but actually not all that much because BTS is now FAR below NXT.  BTS is 4000 sat and NXT is 5000, thats 25% higher than us.
BTS has pretty much been getting crushed by every single major crypto out there except for one or two.

The main reason is because the whole merger and dilution change was completely bungled from a PR perspective.

[gamey]

That was back in May, and I'm sorry to say that in terms of global recognition Bitshares is still the little brother in the 2.0 space, despite our product being live and functioning and our market cap being bigger than all the others bar Ripple. Even Mastercoin that's been behind terrible stuff like the Maidsafe IPO somehow gets more recognition and press space than Bitshares.

Adam was making valid points about the lack of marketing and the difficulty in getting people to understand our product, and provided a critical voice. I see he hasn't posted for over a month now, and I for one am sorry to see him go. He could've been a valuable partner but instead we scared him away..

#1 That was not the post, but I should have reread exactly what he said and not vaguely referenced things.  I just hate to see the poor Adam references which is exactly how he wants people to see it.

#2 That same point he is bringing up is the same point many many people have made.  You make it sound like he was some voice of reason in a sea of dissent.  Pretty much everyone in the 'tribe'  has agreed with it.  Yes Adam has/had many valid criticisms, but the valid ones are usually just echoed by community members.  The invalid ones?  Not so much.

And Xeroc - I agree about not bringing up ABL.  I was hesistant to do it, but could not resist.  I'd be fine never reading anything about ABL on here and thats nothing personal.  He sure as hell doesn't  like reading my posts.

[ebit]

 

[Stan]

This is how I personally see it... Bitshares is being hypocritical when it now switches from a deflationary cryptocurrency to an inflationary one. Sure, the inflation has been implemented for the "greater good", but it is hard to justify that for me. For months (almost a year) Bitshares has been marketing itself on the point that Bitcoin is diluting its shareholders, and that Bitshares looks at cryptocurrency differently in that it makes a profit for its shareholders by burning fees & being deflationary. I personally was sold on that point and it makes a lot of sense to me. Now, even though the dilution is more controlled (you can only dilute for developers, marketers, etc), it is still dilution and something I.. as a very small shareholder..  have no control over.

Thank you for bringing these up.  If these issues still bug a long time member like you, then they probably still bug others.  So I'll drop in a quick response to your main points:

Scattered deep among the prodigious piles of postings from the past month lie the key answers to your question about whether we are being hypocritical about "switching from a deflationary crypto-currency to an inflationary one"...

We have not done that. 
BitShares is not a currency, it is a company. 
Its products (BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGLD, etc.) are currencies.

These products are pegged to other assets that may be inflationary or deflationary.
Take your pick.
Mix your own basket.
You control the level of inflation or deflation.
"Dial-a-yield" is what we offer.
It's not cold fusion.  It's not warp drive.
But it's the value proposition investors should be considering.
It is the flux capacitor of finance.

And that is the reason you should want to invest in BitShares.

Nothing about issuing more "receipts" to recognize new value infusions affects our currencies.
This is the way most companies recognize the contributions of ongoing contributors.
This is consistent with our Prime Directive:
Develop a profitable, rapidly appreciating, useful company.

Dilution of a few percent is negligible
for a company aiming to appreciate by a few hundreds of percent per year.

Lost in the noise.
A mere rounding error.
Yet it is a huge competitive edge
that other crypto-enterprises have yet to discover.
And you are here with us on the ground floor!

Small shareholders in BitShares
are like small shareholders in traditional companies.
They benefit from riding on the resources of big investors
and the vision of big thinkers,
and from being a part of where those people are leading.
If anyone doesn't agree, they always have the option to sell
and find a horse to ride that they like better.
In that sense, the small investor has total control.

So, you see, how people look at things
(favorably or unfavorably)
often depends upon the metaphors they are using.
Creating a company that uses its dilution to fund growth
Is far better than a company that burns much more dilution in the fiery furnaces of Mordor.

That's the comparison we have been making.
And that remains faithful to the principles on which we are founded.

Semper Fi.

 

[santaclause102]

I'm not saying ABL is the greatest thing since sliced bread nor denying that some of his postings were rather tactless, I'm just saying we should try to keep the critical voices around and meet them with reason and maybe try to learn from what they're saying.

Scaring people away doesn't make us look good, Hoskinson is another example of this..

[svk]

I'm not saying ABL is the greatest thing since sliced bread nor denying that some of his postings were rather tactless, I'm just saying we should try to keep the critical voices around and meet them with reason and maybe try to learn from what they're saying.

Scaring people away doesn't make us look good, Hoskinson is another example of this..

[xeroc]

can we just stop talking about ABL once and for all?

[oco101]

@svk

Come one man...you should have read quite a few other posts from the adored by all of us ABL, since May 16th...


Any of those ring any bells:

-I3 has 40% of BTS?
-I3 is donating money to themselves (instead to ABL).
-All US agencies  are coming after I3, about now. Why ABL? - Cause I said so.

Yep that kind of fud I was talking. Good examples tonyk !!!


@svk I agree this one is a good one by ABL but unfortunately most of them are not like that

I apologize for the grave-digging but here's the conversation you must be referring to:

I am the most controversial member of this forum (if you say so) because this forum is very hostile to users who do not think you know absolutely what you're doing.  Look through old posts, you'll find them and note that they all left.   Most people pick a project, maybe two and stick with it.  I pick all the projects, invest in them all and try to help them all when they are doing the wrong thing.  Look at NXT or Counterparty's forums and you'll see the same thing.  I don't currently comment on Ethereum because they're doing just fine. 

I'm sorry I don't think you're doing a great job with Invictus, I really really don't.  This project is by far in last place when compared against the serious players in the space and impugning my motives just further pushes away one of your biggest supporters.

That was back in May, and I'm sorry to say that in terms of global recognition Bitshares is still the little brother in the 2.0 space, despite our product being live and functioning and our market cap being bigger than all the others bar Ripple. Even Mastercoin that's been behind terrible stuff like the Maidsafe IPO somehow gets more recognition and press space than Bitshares.

Adam was making valid points about the lack of marketing and the difficulty in getting people to understand our product, and provided a critical voice. I see he hasn't posted for over a month now, and I for one am sorry to see him go. He could've been a valuable partner but instead we scared him away..

[oco101]

@gamey I'm not sure you'll appreciate any of this but I think our community's reaction to both Adam B. Levine and alphaBar are examples of a tribal, cheerleading mentality that doesn't reflect well on us.

ABL once ridiculed our community for not being aware of how far behind we are.  Since then we've launched and killed a chain that had a market cap greater than the large majority of crypto 2.0 projects.

Alphabar is a completely different situation than ABL.  I have mixed feelings on Alphabar.  I would not have been so harsh on him if not for our previous arguments, but I do feel that his requests were genuine.

A lot of the time you get out of the forum what you put in.  I can pick apart these exchanges and will admit some level of culpability, but I don't think these are very good examples.  I don't feel we're any more tribal than elsewhere.  We're usually pretty open to legitimate criticism, but perhaps I am wrong.  I like BTC and other altcoins
even if I am reminded how sucky the confirmation times are whenever I am forced to use it.  A lot of BTC people just despise anything that isn't on *the* official blockchain.  but anyway I digress...

The problem with alphabar and ABL is how they say things. And usually they mixed a bit of fud here and there just to make I spicy, I agree they are good at starting big inflammatory discussions but I disagree with this approach. Just an example when all the rage was going on the forum about the merger. alphabar chose to make a  tread called  "The NEW Bitshares PTS - superDAC slayer!". Now imagine that tread without the "superDAC slayer" part. Guarantee, everybody would have look it up differently it. Turns out he just wanted to create basically an altcoin witch I think is a good idea by the way...and he chose the perfect timing too people  where pissed of with the distribution and merger. I would have waited a week or so before the announcement.
Same goes for ABL it does not feel they want to do constructive criticism they shoot first and ask later.
Both have good point but are especially good when they are proposing a viable solution, or at least don't mix fud ..
Look at CoinHorder post in this tread that is a perfect example of constructive criticism. And I agree with every point is making in . Is not that difficult really..

[Strip]

I was against it and sell all that I have. Now I try to recover my positions. My main objection was that Bitsheres is centralized and one man can do whatever he wants, but now I see that paid delegates can solve that problem in the long run.

Plus, there is always be funding of development. This feature alone makes Bitsheres much more competitive then others.

[zerosum]

@svk

Come one man...you should have read quite a few other posts from the adored by all of us ABL, since May 16th...


Any of those ring any bells:

-I3 has 40% of BTS?
-I3 is donating money to themselves (instead to ABL).
-All US agencies  are coming after I3, about now. Why ABL? - Cause I said so.

[svk]

@gamey I'm not sure you'll appreciate any of this but I think our community's reaction to both Adam B. Levine and alphaBar are examples of a tribal, cheerleading mentality that doesn't reflect well on us.

ABL once ridiculed our community for not being aware of how far behind we are.  Since then we've launched and killed a chain that had a market cap greater than the large majority of crypto 2.0 projects.

Alphabar is a completely different situation than ABL.  I have mixed feelings on Alphabar.  I would not have been so harsh on him if not for our previous arguments, but I do feel that his requests were genuine.

A lot of the time you get out of the forum what you put in.  I can pick apart these exchanges and will admit some level of culpability, but I don't think these are very good examples.  I don't feel we're any more tribal than elsewhere.  We're usually pretty open to legitimate criticism, but perhaps I am wrong.  I like BTC and other altcoins
even if I am reminded how sucky the confirmation times are whenever I am forced to use it.  A lot of BTC people just despise anything that isn't on *the* official blockchain.  but anyway I digress...

I apologize for the grave-digging but here's the conversation you must be referring to:

I am the most controversial member of this forum (if you say so) because this forum is very hostile to users who do not think you know absolutely what you're doing.  Look through old posts, you'll find them and note that they all left.   Most people pick a project, maybe two and stick with it.  I pick all the projects, invest in them all and try to help them all when they are doing the wrong thing.  Look at NXT or Counterparty's forums and you'll see the same thing.  I don't currently comment on Ethereum because they're doing just fine. 

I'm sorry I don't think you're doing a great job with Invictus, I really really don't.  This project is by far in last place when compared against the serious players in the space and impugning my motives just further pushes away one of your biggest supporters.

That was back in May, and I'm sorry to say that in terms of global recognition Bitshares is still the little brother in the 2.0 space, despite our product being live and functioning and our market cap being bigger than all the others bar Ripple. Even Mastercoin that's been behind terrible stuff like the Maidsafe IPO somehow gets more recognition and press space than Bitshares.

Adam was making valid points about the lack of marketing and the difficulty in getting people to understand our product, and provided a critical voice. I see he hasn't posted for over a month now, and I for one am sorry to see him go. He could've been a valuable partner but instead we scared him away..

[gamey]

@gamey I'm not sure you'll appreciate any of this but I think our community's reaction to both Adam B. Levine and alphaBar are examples of a tribal, cheerleading mentality that doesn't reflect well on us.

ABL once ridiculed our community for not being aware of how far behind we are.  Since then we've launched and killed a chain that had a market cap greater than the large majority of crypto 2.0 projects.

Alphabar is a completely different situation than ABL.  I have mixed feelings on Alphabar.  I would not have been so harsh on him if not for our previous arguments, but I do feel that his requests were genuine.

A lot of the time you get out of the forum what you put in.  I can pick apart these exchanges and will admit some level of culpability, but I don't think these are very good examples.  I don't feel we're any more tribal than elsewhere.  We're usually pretty open to legitimate criticism, but perhaps I am wrong.  I like BTC and other altcoins
even if I am reminded how sucky the confirmation times are whenever I am forced to use it.  A lot of BTC people just despise anything that isn't on *the* official blockchain.  but anyway I digress...

[monsterer]

I agree that the dominant factor was probably just the crypto bear market, not inflation.  But inflation did probably have some effect (there were definitely a couple periods where we dropped 10% more than other cryptos, right after dilution announcements and plan changes.

Also, while BTS performed similarly to NXT recently, both have performed weakly relative to the average altcoin during this period, and both actually had periods of terrible PR during this period.  NXT was plagued by horrible PR during the whole bluemeanie theft fiasco. 

Why don't you mark the dates on the graph where you noticed the price move due to bad news?

Personally, I think you're really grasping at straws saying NXT moves the same way as BTS because they had bad news as well. At the same time? By the same amounts? Really?