Author Topic: Is everyone against merger and inflating for stuff out of BTS yet?  (Read 11408 times)

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Offline Empirical1.1

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We have not done that. 
BitShares is not a currency, it is a company. 
Its products (BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGLD, etc.) are currencies.
could you explain please , why this "currencies" so special to use over BTC?

First generation crypto currencies are subject to large fluctuations in price that makes them less suitable for use as a store of value.  BitShares BTS it also subject to such fluctuations.  So we don't use it as a currency.  We use it as collateral to back a stable currency pegged to other assets like USD, CNY, EUR, gold and silver.

This next-generation currency, produced as a derivative of the underlying asset, is much more stable and therefore suitable for use as a currency.

In the process we improved everything else about bitcoin.  Confirmed transactions are possible in ten seconds vs. the hour it can take to get a fully confirmed Bitcoin transaction.

In addition, the BitShares currencies (BitUSD, et. al.) pay a yield - similar to variable interest to all who hold them.

BitShares completely revolutionizes the crypto currency industry.

This is not just an incremental improvement or a better meme.
It is the same scale of performance improvement as between a horse and an automobile.

EDIT:  In terms of speed, it is more like the leap from a horse to a jet aircraft.  :)

As an analogy, BTS like real world gold while bitusd, bitcny etc. as real world currencies.  So this whole mechanism behind BTS is an evolution digitally of the old-fashioned monetary system, which as BM put it as BANKING.

No BTSX was like a real world gold, BTS is like a share in a competitive company that shareholders change based on what they think is best. Bytemaster has said if you want something like a gold, buy BitGold. I think some people will prefer something more like a real world gold backing BitAssets a bit more.

Well, reading ur reply I suddenly realise that BTSX is actually gold as it is has a fixed amount. So I agree with you BTS is not suited to this analogy anymore...Unless we can see BTS as digital gold anyway because real world gold quantity is increasing somehow though in a very very slow pace. This is not the serious point anyway.

Thanks toast for enlightening me, it's just the way I understand it. I would prefer a thing has collateral nature as analog of gold, which bitgold not have?

Yes I think many would prefer a thing has collateral nature as analog to gold.
Unfortunately BTS can't be seen as that, as even though it is increasing at a slow pace it may be changed for a merger with another company or for other reasons. BTS is still good collateral because it is very transparent & there is a lot of BTS backing the BitAssets, so it is still very safe. People will think of it differently to BTSX though in my opinion.

Offline merlin0113

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We have not done that. 
BitShares is not a currency, it is a company. 
Its products (BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGLD, etc.) are currencies.
could you explain please , why this "currencies" so special to use over BTC?

First generation crypto currencies are subject to large fluctuations in price that makes them less suitable for use as a store of value.  BitShares BTS it also subject to such fluctuations.  So we don't use it as a currency.  We use it as collateral to back a stable currency pegged to other assets like USD, CNY, EUR, gold and silver.

This next-generation currency, produced as a derivative of the underlying asset, is much more stable and therefore suitable for use as a currency.

In the process we improved everything else about bitcoin.  Confirmed transactions are possible in ten seconds vs. the hour it can take to get a fully confirmed Bitcoin transaction.

In addition, the BitShares currencies (BitUSD, et. al.) pay a yield - similar to variable interest to all who hold them.

BitShares completely revolutionizes the crypto currency industry.

This is not just an incremental improvement or a better meme.
It is the same scale of performance improvement as between a horse and an automobile.

EDIT:  In terms of speed, it is more like the leap from a horse to a jet aircraft.  :)

As an analogy, BTS like real world gold while bitusd, bitcny etc. as real world currencies.  So this whole mechanism behind BTS is an evolution digitally of the old-fashioned monetary system, which as BM put it as BANKING.

No BTSX was like a real world gold, BTS is like a share in a competitive company that shareholders change based on what they think is best. Bytemaster has said if you want something like a gold, buy BitGold. I think some people will prefer something more like a real world gold backing BitAssets a bit more.

Well, reading ur reply I suddenly realise that BTSX is actually gold as it is has a fixed amount. So I agree with you BTS is not suited to this analogy anymore...Unless we can see BTS as digital gold anyway because real world gold quantity is increasing somehow though in a very very slow pace. This is not the serious point anyway.

Thanks toast for enlightening me, it's just the way I understand it. I would prefer a thing has collateral nature as analog of gold, which bitgold not have?

Offline Empirical1.1

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We have not done that. 
BitShares is not a currency, it is a company. 
Its products (BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGLD, etc.) are currencies.
could you explain please , why this "currencies" so special to use over BTC?

First generation crypto currencies are subject to large fluctuations in price that makes them less suitable for use as a store of value.  BitShares BTS it also subject to such fluctuations.  So we don't use it as a currency.  We use it as collateral to back a stable currency pegged to other assets like USD, CNY, EUR, gold and silver.

This next-generation currency, produced as a derivative of the underlying asset, is much more stable and therefore suitable for use as a currency.

In the process we improved everything else about bitcoin.  Confirmed transactions are possible in ten seconds vs. the hour it can take to get a fully confirmed Bitcoin transaction.

In addition, the BitShares currencies (BitUSD, et. al.) pay a yield - similar to variable interest to all who hold them.

BitShares completely revolutionizes the crypto currency industry.

This is not just an incremental improvement or a better meme.
It is the same scale of performance improvement as between a horse and an automobile.

EDIT:  In terms of speed, it is more like the leap from a horse to a jet aircraft.  :)

As an analogy, BTS like real world gold while bitusd, bitcny etc. as real world currencies.  So this whole mechanism behind BTS is an evolution digitally of the old-fashioned monetary system, which as BM put it as BANKING.

No BTSX was like a real world gold, BTS is like a share in a competitive company that shareholders change based on what they think is best. Bytemaster has said if you want something like a gold, buy BitGold. I think some people will prefer something more like a real world gold backing BitAssets a bit more.

Offline merlin0113

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We have not done that. 
BitShares is not a currency, it is a company. 
Its products (BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGLD, etc.) are currencies.
could you explain please , why this "currencies" so special to use over BTC?

First generation crypto currencies are subject to large fluctuations in price that makes them less suitable for use as a store of value.  BitShares BTS it also subject to such fluctuations.  So we don't use it as a currency.  We use it as collateral to back a stable currency pegged to other assets like USD, CNY, EUR, gold and silver.

This next-generation currency, produced as a derivative of the underlying asset, is much more stable and therefore suitable for use as a currency.

In the process we improved everything else about bitcoin.  Confirmed transactions are possible in ten seconds vs. the hour it can take to get a fully confirmed Bitcoin transaction.

In addition, the BitShares currencies (BitUSD, et. al.) pay a yield - similar to variable interest to all who hold them.

BitShares completely revolutionizes the crypto currency industry.

This is not just an incremental improvement or a better meme.
It is the same scale of performance improvement as between a horse and an automobile.

EDIT:  In terms of speed, it is more like the leap from a horse to a jet aircraft.  :)

As an analogy, BTS like real world gold while bitusd, bitcny etc. as real world currencies.  So this whole mechanism behind BTS is an evolution digitally of the old-fashioned monetary system, which as BM put it as BANKING.

Offline Crossover

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We have not done that. 
BitShares is not a currency, it is a company. 
Its products (BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGLD, etc.) are currencies.
could you explain please , why this "currencies" so special to use over BTC?

First generation crypto currencies are subject to large fluctuations in price that makes them less suitable for use as a store of value.  BitShares BTS it also subject to such fluctuations.  So we don't use it as a currency.  We use it as collateral to back a stable currency pegged to other assets like USD, CNY, EUR, gold and silver.

This next-generation currency, produced as a derivative of the underlying asset, is much more stable and therefore suitable for use as a currency.

In the process we improved everything else about bitcoin.  Confirmed transactions are possible in ten seconds vs. the hour it can take to get a fully confirmed Bitcoin transaction.

In addition, the BitShares currencies (BitUSD, et. al.) pay a yield - similar to variable interest to all who hold them.

BitShares completely revolutionizes the crypto currency industry.

This is not just an incremental improvement or a better meme.
It is the same scale of performance improvement as between a horse and an automobile.

EDIT:  In terms of speed, it is more like the leap from a horse to a jet aircraft.  :)
Thank you, let me explain how i see this now,
lets suppose im the investor of oil rig, i bought oil rig for 500 USD of my own and 500 i pulled from investors, the rig valued by the revenue flow over period of oil extraction devided to time discount,
 market value due higher inflation expectations rised to 2000 USD, my 1/2 share of company now valued at 1000 USD,
i decided to make Oilrig shares as digital money among rig personnel, but because of unstable price nature of shares i have to use reverse engineering derivative, digital tokens of common currencies, usd, gld.
When market value of rig rised to 3000 USD, investors created digital assets for the total amount of 2000 usd + 1 oz gold,
1 month later alien race bring new source of energy tech, oil prices fell down significantly more then 50%, market value of oilrig tumble to 1000 and still going down.
Share owners cant redeem their tokens, because value of deriv.assets 3000 > 1000, they are in trap, what to do in such scenario?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 10:55:45 pm by Crossover »

Offline arhag

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Is it me, or have you accidentally blown up the last few days of the region shown in my chart and mislabeled the dates? :)

I am pretty certain I have not mislabeled the dates. I am more or less using the same data and charting functionality from coinmarketcap. Remember, I am effectively plotting a normalized price of BTS and NXT both priced in BTC (not USD which your chart appears to be plotting). Feel free to look through the source code and see if you find any bugs though.

Offline monsterer

They havent moved at the same times, the same amounts.  There are definite periods of outperformance on that chart, by one or the other. 

Where? Point out the major differences.

Look, I'll include this again to help you:



The market caps priced in USD appear to be masking much of the differences in price movements between BTS and NXT. Using my tool (http://jsfiddle.net/p4qvLwwp/4/) I was able to generate a plot of the change in prices of the two assets over the same time period:


You can clearly see that the BTS price was hurting more than NXT during the BTC bear market period from October 26 to November 2. But it seems to have returned back to normal relative to NXT from November 2 to November 10 during the BTC rebound. Then as BTC had its mini-bubble with a peak at November 13, both NXT and BTS went down, but again BTS went down faster than NXT, and what's worse is that it has continued to slide down despite the fact that the BTC price has somewhat stabilized in the short term and the NXT price is starting to reflect that stability.

You can of course have very different interpretations from this data, but it seems clear to me that BTS is hurting more and that it is likely because of some large BTS holders becoming upset with all the latest changes and trying to get out slowly. I think that view is incredibly irrational and that BTS is much better off in the long run because of the merge to BTS and delegate dilution pay. Though this sell off is unfortunate, we are better off having the stake move to stronger hands who actually understand the value of the new system. I just hope the people selling have nearly finished divesting their stake and we can soon go back to higher prices.

Is it me, or have you accidentally blown up the last few days of the region shown in my chart and mislabeled the dates? :)
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Offline Ander

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Thanks arhag, on that version you can clearly see the large differences in performance.
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Offline Stan

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We have not done that. 
BitShares is not a currency, it is a company. 
Its products (BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGLD, etc.) are currencies.
could you explain please , why this "currencies" so special to use over BTC?

First generation crypto currencies are subject to large fluctuations in price that makes them less suitable for use as a store of value.  BitShares BTS it also subject to such fluctuations.  So we don't use it as a currency.  We use it as collateral to back a stable currency pegged to other assets like USD, CNY, EUR, gold and silver.

This next-generation currency, produced as a derivative of the underlying asset, is much more stable and therefore suitable for use as a currency.

In the process we improved everything else about bitcoin.  Confirmed transactions are possible in ten seconds vs. the hour it can take to get a fully confirmed Bitcoin transaction.

In addition, the BitShares currencies (BitUSD, et. al.) pay a yield - similar to variable interest to all who hold them.

BitShares completely revolutionizes the crypto currency industry.

This is not just an incremental improvement or a better meme.
It is the same scale of performance improvement as between a horse and an automobile.

EDIT:  In terms of speed, it is more like the leap from a horse to a jet aircraft.  :)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 08:23:32 pm by Stan »
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Offline CLains

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"BTC dying" kills the altmarket, because it leads to a crypto depression. What happens when a system is in depression? In terms of the brain, neural activity is centralized around the ego, the self, and in terms of the body, blood and heat is transferred to the center of the body, leaving all extremities cold, environmentally one stops exploring and sits still in a corner, trying to conserve energy for better times. The giant squid BTC retracts blood from all the alt-tentacles into the core, leaving them cold and putting exploration on a halt.







Offline toast

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We have not done that. 
BitShares is not a currency, it is a company. 
Its products (BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGLD, etc.) are currencies.
could you explain please , why this "currencies" so special to use over BTC?

Price stability, interest, 10s transaction times.
USD, CNY, GLD have the same stability over BTC, thats all?

No, I listed two other things:  Getting paid interest and 60 times faster transactions
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline arhag

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They havent moved at the same times, the same amounts.  There are definite periods of outperformance on that chart, by one or the other. 

Where? Point out the major differences.

Look, I'll include this again to help you:



The market caps priced in USD appear to be masking much of the differences in price movements between BTS and NXT. Using my tool (http://jsfiddle.net/p4qvLwwp/4/) I was able to generate a plot of the change in prices of the two assets over the same time period:


You can clearly see that the BTS price was hurting more than NXT during the BTC bear market period from October 26 to November 2. But it seems to have returned back to normal relative to NXT from November 2 to November 10 during the BTC rebound. Then as BTC had its mini-bubble with a peak at November 13, both NXT and BTS went down, but again BTS went down faster than NXT, and what's worse is that it has continued to slide down despite the fact that the BTC price has somewhat stabilized in the short term and the NXT price is starting to reflect that stability.

You can of course have very different interpretations from this data, but it seems clear to me that BTS is hurting more and that it is likely because of some large BTS holders becoming upset with all the latest changes and trying to get out slowly. I think that view is incredibly irrational and that BTS is much better off in the long run because of the merge to BTS and delegate dilution pay. Though this sell off is unfortunate, we are better off having the stake move to stronger hands who actually understand the value of the new system. I just hope the people selling have nearly finished divesting their stake and we can soon go back to higher prices.

Offline toast

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We have not done that. 
BitShares is not a currency, it is a company. 
Its products (BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGLD, etc.) are currencies.
could you explain please , why this "currencies" so special to use over BTC?

Price stability, interest, 10s transaction times.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline Crossover

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We have not done that. 
BitShares is not a currency, it is a company. 
Its products (BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGLD, etc.) are currencies.
could you explain please , why this "currencies" so special to use over BTC?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 07:19:20 pm by Crossover »

Offline monsterer

They havent moved at the same times, the same amounts.  There are definite periods of outperformance on that chart, by one or the other. 

Where? Point out the major differences.

Look, I'll include this again to help you:

My opinions do not represent those of metaexchange unless explicitly stated.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads