ripple rally

[alexkravets]

I personally NEVER hold any value in any IOUs inside ripple, but rather use them for what they are meant to be used:

Cash-in & Cash-out.

Then what is the point of even attempting decentralization?  Why not just make ripple a centralized service completely?  It seems like it would be much easier.

Sir,

You confuse Ripple labs majority position in XRP the asset with control of the network or protocol.

Ripple is nether a PoW NOR a PoS ledger, it uses Ripple Consensus which is entirely different.

You or I are absolutely no less privileged from the point of Ripple consensus than Ripple labs.

At this time the DEFAULT UNL list contains RL nodes when you download the server but you can change it to whatever list of nodes you want. You are also free to lobby other nodes to add your servers.

De-facto the UNL nodes on most of the hundreds of rippled nodes out there still do contain RL nodes thereby keeping the network centralized at this time, in the long run banks will start listing each other thereby creating a de facto cartel but without a central operator and the network will become as decentralized as Internet routing is today


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[fuzzy]

I personally NEVER hold any value in any IOUs inside ripple, but rather use them for what they are meant to be used:

Cash-in & Cash-out.

Then what is the point of even attempting decentralization?  Why not just make ripple a centralized service completely?  It seems like it would be much easier.

Because then how would you get all the "decentralize everything" crowd?  You first need to appear as though you are different from the legacy system until enough people have skin in the game...later on you can change things up and people will have to choose to accept it or potentially walk away from a system they believe will make them wealthy beyond imagination. 

I think ripple's tech is awesome, btw...just kind of stunned by the level of centralization in its ownership and even more stunned that people would be cool with it being so centralized. 

[Helikopterben]

I personally NEVER hold any value in any IOUs inside ripple, but rather use them for what they are meant to be used:

Cash-in & Cash-out.

Then what is the point of even attempting decentralization?  Why not just make ripple a centralized service completely?  It seems like it would be much easier.

[alexkravets]

Ok.  Please explain how bitcoin and bts balances are fully contained within the ripple protocol with no third party risk.

I never claimed that IOU balances have no counterparty risk, I merely stated that XRP carries none.

Any IOU issued by any issuer be it BTC or USD or BTS would carry the risk of that issuer not redeeming it or simply disappearing.

There is one notable edge case, the case of a central bank whose currency is forced onto the population by legal tender laws and tax collectors requiring it for payment of taxes issuing IOUs into Ripple.

Imagine Central Bank of Korea issuing KRW IOUs, those are inherently higher quality than any other KRW IOU issued by a private bank or a gateway, in some sense because KRWs can be printed ad infinitum, there's really no good reason not to "redeem" them into a bank balance at a Korean bank.

[Helikopterben]

Congratulations to the Ripple folks.  However, I prefer the security of a self-contained autonomous financial system such as bitcoin or bitshares.  As the fiat currency crisis deepens, defaults will inevitably occur with some ripple gateways IMHO.  Some gateways will be in need of a bailout and may or may not get them.  The only true flight to safety will be inside systems that are not subject to counterparty risk such as bitcoin and bitshares.  Ripple provides a much needed patch for the legacy banking system but I believe the entire legacy system needs to be replaced completely.  Make no mistake, when you trust a ripple gateway, you are trusting someone else with your money, which has been proven to be a bad idea.  Of course, who am I to argue with the market.

You speak out of ignorance of mechanics of Ripple AND mechanics of the current Bitcoin/BitShares ecosystem.

Any current Bitcoin of BTS exchange issues "account balances" a.k.a. IOUs. 

What Ripple does in ADDITION to Bitcoin is formalize the role of such entities in the protocol.

However, even tho Ripple Gateways do cash-in / cash-out operations into and out of Ripple, UNLIKE current banks or crypto exchanges ALL their balances are tradable and once issued, cannot (in general with some exceptions) be frozen.

So there is absolutely nothing new here.

I personally NEVER hold any value in any IOUs inside ripple, but rather use them for what they are meant to be used:

Cash-in & Cash-out.

It's a whole huge discussion on weather or not Ripple is currently centralized or de-centralizable in the future.

And I can answer specific questions, but I see 9 out of 10 people criticise Ripple out of complete ignorance about what it is.

Just spend an hour reading the wiki and come out better informed next time: https://wiki.ripple.com/Main_Page

Ok.  Please explain how bitcoin and bts balances are fully contained within the ripple protocol with no third party risk.

[alexkravets]

Bridging asset doesn't mean its intended to be used as reserves.

At this time in world FOREX markets (which dwarf EVERYTHING else by a factor of 10x+ i.e. 5 Trillion USD in DAILY volume ),
the asset that's being used as a bridging asset is an IOU at one of Fed/FDIC backed TBTF banks (either US or US subsidiaries of EURO/Asian TBTF banks, which are themselves FDIC insured and Fed-backed)

All trades are denominated in lots of 5 million USDs.

Should XRP become a Bridging asset/currency ... it will have HUGE daily volumes and low volatility and will then perform the same role as currently performed by USD IOUs issued by TBTF banks.

If that's not a good currency to have reserves in, then I don't know what would be ...

Imagine that you are a Norwegian oil company selling oil to Japan.  It's NOT the case USD is used to conduct such transactions because OIL is denominated in USD, since modern finantial institutions will SETTLE the transaction in Yen or Norwergian Kroner for a tiny fee ... The reason such trades are PERFORMED in USDs is because of the existence of a spider web of Swap lines from foreign central banks to the Fed and a web of TBTF banks that have mutual ledgers with USD IOU's listed in them ... In other words, because an average Japanese bank does NOT have an average Norwegian bank as a trusted correspondent with mutally held collateral and a mutual ledger which closes daily ... but they both have such with Fed-backed TBTF banks ... that's the reason USD is the reserve currency of the world ... which is isomorphic to the role that XRP plays inside Ripple.

[toast]

Bridging asset doesn't mean its intended to be used as reserves.

But yes we have realized the power of gateways and have features incoming to make it a reality

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[alexkravets]

What if the secret plan is for XRP to become the reserve currency?

This plan is NOT secret !

Ripple labs has stated in numerous white papers and primers that XRP is meant to serve the role of the counter-party risk free BRIDGING ASSET in the global decentralized instant-settlement FOREX exchange.

See https://ripple.com/knowledge_center/bridge-currency/

SHOULD XRP succeed in the long run, its eventual trajectory will take it toward USD 2.0 compare that to Bitcoin's Gold 2.0

Cheers ...

[alexkravets]

Congratulations to the Ripple folks.  However, I prefer the security of a self-contained autonomous financial system such as bitcoin or bitshares.  As the fiat currency crisis deepens, defaults will inevitably occur with some ripple gateways IMHO.  Some gateways will be in need of a bailout and may or may not get them.  The only true flight to safety will be inside systems that are not subject to counterparty risk such as bitcoin and bitshares.  Ripple provides a much needed patch for the legacy banking system but I believe the entire legacy system needs to be replaced completely.  Make no mistake, when you trust a ripple gateway, you are trusting someone else with your money, which has been proven to be a bad idea.  Of course, who am I to argue with the market.

You speak out of ignorance of mechanics of Ripple AND mechanics of the current Bitcoin/BitShares ecosystem.

Any current Bitcoin of BTS exchange issues "account balances" a.k.a. IOUs. 

What Ripple does in ADDITION to Bitcoin is formalize the role of such entities in the protocol.

However, even tho Ripple Gateways do cash-in / cash-out operations into and out of Ripple, UNLIKE current banks or crypto exchanges ALL their balances are tradable and once issued, cannot (in general with some exceptions) be frozen.

So there is absolutely nothing new here.

I personally NEVER hold any value in any IOUs inside ripple, but rather use them for what they are meant to be used:

Cash-in & Cash-out.

It's a whole huge discussion on weather or not Ripple is currently centralized or de-centralizable in the future.

And I can answer specific questions, but I see 9 out of 10 people criticise Ripple out of complete ignorance about what it is.

Just spend an hour reading the wiki and come out better informed next time: https://wiki.ripple.com/Main_Page

[mitao]

I think it would make more sense for us to make an XRP gateway on the bitshares network. Then XRP could be easily traded against bitUSD too. We might even want to have bitXRP.

This is great, but keep in mind this:

Ripple Labs needs bitXRP MUCH LESS than Bitshares needs a BTS gateways inside Ripple.

Currently BTS liquidity is really poor because essentially there's only btc38 clunky chinese exchange trading it for CNY and a little for BTC. 

This is unacceptable. 

By simply installing RL's gateways software, BTS will suddenly become quoted and tradable vs. millions of dollar's worth of daily liquidity. 

All without fees, but even better ... you'll be able to send BTS to your BTC brain wallets and get auto-conversion on the fly ! 
Think that over again ... 

What are the steps today to sell off some BTS ?

1. Go to btc38 and open an account.
2. Sell some BTS for CNY    (pay fee & spread)
3. Sell those CNYs for BTC  (pay fee & spread)
4. Send those BTCs out (3 btc at a time ! cumbersome btc38 requirement) to your coinbase/circle account (pay withdrawal fee)
5. Sell those BTCs to deposit into your USD account.

This is just way too crazy ...

I do know that some "onramps/offramps" are in the works according to bytemaster but until then (and even afterwards !)

BTS gateway inside Ripple would be nice.

Remember liquidity begets liquidity, conversely once liquidity disappears everything disappears ... just ask Mastercoin

Very correct, thank you

[Helikopterben]

Congratulations to the Ripple folks.  However, I prefer the security of a self-contained autonomous financial system such as bitcoin or bitshares.  As the fiat currency crisis deepens, defaults will inevitably occur with some ripple gateways IMHO.  Some gateways will be in need of a bailout and may or may not get them.  The only true flight to safety will be inside systems that are not subject to counterparty risk such as bitcoin and bitshares.  Ripple provides a much needed patch for the legacy banking system but I believe the entire legacy system needs to be replaced completely.  Make no mistake, when you trust a ripple gateway, you are trusting someone else with your money, which has been proven to be a bad idea.  Of course, who am I to argue with the market.

What if the secret plan is for XRP to become the reserve currency?

It definitely could but according to their model, any other assets won't be native to the system, introducing third party risk.

[fuzzy]

Congratulations to the Ripple folks.  However, I prefer the security of a self-contained autonomous financial system such as bitcoin or bitshares.  As the fiat currency crisis deepens, defaults will inevitably occur with some ripple gateways IMHO.  Some gateways will be in need of a bailout and may or may not get them.  The only true flight to safety will be inside systems that are not subject to counterparty risk such as bitcoin and bitshares.  Ripple provides a much needed patch for the legacy banking system but I believe the entire legacy system needs to be replaced completely.  Make no mistake, when you trust a ripple gateway, you are trusting someone else with your money, which has been proven to be a bad idea.  Of course, who am I to argue with the market.

What if the secret plan is for XRP to become the reserve currency?

 Careful toast or u might end up sounding like me and my conspiracies (if it isnt already obvious...I wholeheartedly agree).

Now what if ripple represents banking cartel control, 2.0..?


 I mean sure, people could open up their own gateways, but it would not be accepted as "legitimate".  Worst case, use a false flag and blame it on 3rd party "unregulated" gateways for working with the "terrorists".  Nvm that the current, "legitimate" banking infrastructure works with them all the time..

[Empirical1.1]

Congratulations to the Ripple folks.  However, I prefer the security of a self-contained autonomous financial system such as bitcoin or bitshares.  As the fiat currency crisis deepens, defaults will inevitably occur with some ripple gateways IMHO.  Some gateways will be in need of a bailout and may or may not get them.  The only true flight to safety will be inside systems that are not subject to counterparty risk such as bitcoin and bitshares.  Ripple provides a much needed patch for the legacy banking system but I believe the entire legacy system needs to be replaced completely.  Make no mistake, when you trust a ripple gateway, you are trusting someone else with your money, which has been proven to be a bad idea.  Of course, who am I to argue with the market.

What if the secret plan is for XRP to become the reserve currency?

BTSX crushed XRP as a crypto-currency.

[toast]

Congratulations to the Ripple folks.  However, I prefer the security of a self-contained autonomous financial system such as bitcoin or bitshares.  As the fiat currency crisis deepens, defaults will inevitably occur with some ripple gateways IMHO.  Some gateways will be in need of a bailout and may or may not get them.  The only true flight to safety will be inside systems that are not subject to counterparty risk such as bitcoin and bitshares.  Ripple provides a much needed patch for the legacy banking system but I believe the entire legacy system needs to be replaced completely.  Make no mistake, when you trust a ripple gateway, you are trusting someone else with your money, which has been proven to be a bad idea.  Of course, who am I to argue with the market.

What if the secret plan is for XRP to become the reserve currency?

[Helikopterben]

Congratulations to the Ripple folks.  However, I prefer the security of a self-contained autonomous financial system such as bitcoin or bitshares.  As the fiat currency crisis deepens, defaults will inevitably occur with some ripple gateways IMHO.  Some gateways will be in need of a bailout and may or may not get them.  The only true flight to safety will be inside systems that are not subject to counterparty risk such as bitcoin and bitshares.  Ripple provides a much needed patch for the legacy banking system but I believe the entire legacy system needs to be replaced completely.  Make no mistake, when you trust a ripple gateway, you are trusting someone else with your money, which has been proven to be a bad idea.  Of course, who am I to argue with the market.