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Offline Rune

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2014, 10:32:13 AM »
Just call it "protoshares". Calling it "bitshares-PTS" was an unfortunate necessity because I3 was a company that could get sued.

Yes, the branding is a bit of an awful mess but our intention is to address one issue at a time. The current focus is 100% on an upgrade to DPoS. Same coin, same name, same allocation, same exchanges, with only one simple upgrade.

The key to making this upgrade happen is to convince the exchanges to switch their current order books over to the new blockchain. Do you think that is possible or will people feel this is "stealing" their POW PTS? Will be interesting to see how exchanges and holders react

Offline testz

Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2014, 10:47:22 AM »
The billion units was primarily to help in marketing. It gives us a nice round number to start with for supply (vs. 1,783,034) and it creates the perception of value (eg, feels better to tip 100PTS than 0.1PTS). Perception drives reality.

I agree this is an unnecessary and distracting change. Changing the number of units again feels like a new project, rather than an upgrade. Maybe a 1.8 mil hardcap, with the the last 40,000 set aside for transaction subsidies.

Nice idea, what if we convert PTS to new PTS by 1:1 ratio and make hard limit of new PTS to 2 000 000 (as planned from beginning) and use unallocated PTS to honor delegates for 10 years (it's will be ~0,0076 PTS per produced block except user registration and transactions fee).

Offline pc

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2014, 12:20:01 PM »

Nice idea, what if we convert PTS to new PTS by 1:1 ratio and make hard limit of new PTS to 2 000 000 (as planned from beginning) and use unallocated PTS to honor delegates for 10 years (it's will be ~0,0076 PTS per produced block except user registration and transactions fee).

We've already discussed that idea.
Our goal is to position PTS as a no-dilution, no-inflation investment vehicle, so we have decided against it.
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Offline FreeTrade

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2014, 12:56:16 PM »
We've already discussed that idea.
Our goal is to position PTS as a no-dilution, no-inflation investment vehicle, so we have decided against it.

Tony had an interesting idea here -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11576.0

I think we've got about 1,760,000 PTS minted now.

If we were to have 20,000 transaction processing subsidy (1%) in the first year, reducing by 50% each year . . . we'd have a maximum possible cap of 1,800,000 mil - you could still market it as no-dilution, no-inflation, on the basis that there is a total supply of 1.8 mil.

Really looking for a compromise with you guys on transaction processing subsidy - a lot of smart people have said it's not a good idea to get rid of it with no replacement. You'd also start to gain a reputation for pragmatic compromise, rather than ideological dogmatism.
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Offline alphaBar

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2014, 03:01:42 PM »
We've already discussed that idea.
Our goal is to position PTS as a no-dilution, no-inflation investment vehicle, so we have decided against it.

Tony had an interesting idea here -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11576.0

I think we've got about 1,760,000 PTS minted now.

If we were to have 20,000 transaction processing subsidy (1%) in the first year, reducing by 50% each year . . . we'd have a maximum possible cap of 1,800,000 mil - you could still market it as no-dilution, no-inflation, on the basis that there is a total supply of 1.8 mil.

Really looking for a compromise with you guys on transaction processing subsidy - a lot of smart people have said it's not a good idea to get rid of it with no replacement. You'd also start to gain a reputation for pragmatic compromise, rather than ideological dogmatism.

I think this is a point on which rational minds can disagree. All of the work we have done so far has been with no subsidy (on our own dime) and we're just getting started. Please consider a few things: (1) BTSX was operating successfully using the same model, (2) it is a point of differentiation for us and aligns better with our strategy/marketing, and (3) it can always be added if shareholders deem it necessary (slow and steady).

Offline alphaBar

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2014, 03:03:37 PM »

Offline islandking

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2014, 03:05:21 PM »
Will BTS be apart of the snapshot?
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Offline ticklebiscuit

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2014, 03:25:12 PM »
The billion units was primarily to help in marketing. It gives us a nice round number to start with for supply (vs. 1,783,034) and it creates the perception of value (eg, feels better to tip 100PTS than 0.1PTS). Perception drives reality.

I agree this is an unnecessary and distracting change. Changing the number of units again feels like a new project, rather than an upgrade. Maybe a 1.8 mil hardcap, with the the last 40,000 set aside for transaction subsidies.

If i want to invest in berkshire hathaway and they change their number of shares to 1 billion it makes their shares look less prestigious so i dont like this.  I want pts to be prestigious investment vehicles-not just some random blank currency based off vanilla dpos.  If you are going to sell ice cream at least label it premium and slightly more diffocult to get or else you are just selling icecream like all the rest.  Please dont needlessly mess with supply.

Sending pts should feel lkke sending flakes of gold, not bags of copper.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 03:40:26 PM by ticklebiscuit »

Offline testz

Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2014, 03:28:18 PM »
Will BTS be apart of the snapshot?

It's not new DAC, it's PTS replacement/upgrade 100% share drop to old PTS.

Offline islandking

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2014, 03:29:36 PM »
Will BTS be apart of the snapshot?

It's not new DAC, it's PTS replacement/upgrade 100% share drop to old PTS.

So all future PTS snapshots will be done on this new upgrade? Will the spark snapshot be on this new chain?
I've been working on a new electronic cash system that's fully peer-to-peer, with no trusted third party. - Satoshi

Offline testz

Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2014, 03:32:39 PM »
Will BTS be apart of the snapshot?

It's not new DAC, it's PTS replacement/upgrade 100% share drop to old PTS.

So all future PTS snapshots will be done on this new upgrade?

Yes, this is idea, if community support this upgrade all future snapshots will be done of new PTS.
New PTS will have all required functionality for making snapshots.

Offline testz

Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2014, 03:34:42 PM »
Will the spark snapshot be on this new chain?

No, spark snapshot will be taken at same time from old PTS (last block of PTS at December 14, UTC).

Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2014, 05:05:17 PM »
 +5% Best of luck guys  :)

...the name shouldn't be BitShares PTS. That just brings about the same confusion the merger was set up to eliminate.

Agreed. Hence the following:

Quote from: alphaBar
* After the upgrade, a complete rebrand.

Cool, the sooner you can drop 'BitShares' the better, from both a BTS & PTS POV imo.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 05:18:03 PM by Empirical1.1 »

Offline neo1344

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2014, 05:32:55 PM »
how many snapshot this community will ever have? and why don t u just call it snapshares,it s very easy way to makes $$$$$$

Offline ticklebiscuit

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Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2014, 07:09:20 PM »
+5% Best of luck guys  :)

...the name shouldn't be BitShares PTS. That just brings about the same confusion the merger was set up to eliminate.

Agreed. Hence the following:

Quote from: alphaBar
* After the upgrade, a complete rebrand.

Cool, the sooner you can drop 'BitShares' the better, from both a BTS & PTS POV imo.

Why? Isnt it powered by bitshares technology?

Why not have every fork called bitshares-fork?  So bitshares-sparkles, bitshares-rpdc...etc.
It shows competition inside the same place while also serving to make it easier for outsiders looking in to see all the chains that were sharedropped. In 2 years, if there are 20 bitshares forks all with bitshares somewhere in them with marketcaps in the 10's of millions, i bet there will be even more people wanting to buy pts.  Of couse, there needs to be an  leasy way to identify these for everyday people.  The best way is to keep bitshares in the names of these, not to dissassociate them from one another.

This decision boils down to two ways of thinking:
1) bitshares is a single SuperDAC
2) bitshares is a toolkit and a means of distinguishing yourself from inferior toolkits

Now that i have talked enough with a veteran here, I bought PTS.  I like profit, but also think competition between many chains with the bitshares name really helps that.

 

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