Author Topic: Year End Developer Bonuses  (Read 6063 times)

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Offline bytemaster

Year End Developer Bonuses
« on: December 31, 2014, 09:48:45 pm »
I wanted to provide some transparency on our year end bonuses:

Toast, Nathan, Valentine, Vikram, Stan, and James Caffe, Dan N.  (all of whom have 100% pay delegates) have received 3M BTS severance / bonus from Invictus
Ben (Drltc) and Agent86 have received 1M BTS severance / bonus (also have 100% pay delegates)

This ends I3's responsibility to continue funding these individuals whom are now free agents working to support the BitShares ecosystem.   I trust each of these individuals to continue contributing to BitShares because they believe in the cause and to get their delegate pay.     Each of these individuals also has a large vesting balance that will mature over the next 2 years which should keep them loyal to the project as a whole.

As you know delegate pay is not sufficient to cover their salaries in the coming year.  This bonus is an incentive to get the value of BTS up to both maximize the value of their bonus and to ensure they can continue to earn what they need from delegate pay.   

Any profits earned by Invictus are taxed at 35%.  For efficiency sake we needed to pay everyone in 2014 with at least 65% efficiency. 

This means that a large number of BTS that I use to vote with are now distributed among the core developers. 

There remains about 67 M BTS that is being held in reserve to cover 2015 expenses I3 may face including any taxes, accounting, legal, fees, or fines we may face in the year(s) ahead.  At todays market cap that represents about $1 million held in reserve.   Some of those funds are ear-marked for marketing performance-based bonuses.  The funds will also be used to provide free office space anyone who wants to come to blacksburg to work on BitShares. 

Overall we raised about $3.6 million in AGS donations and now that these bonuses have been paid we have spent $3.6 million in 2014.    We had a large capital-loss on our BTC holdings and an offsetting capital gain on our BTS holdings.    Of the money we spent, 10% went to China, 10% went to US Marketing (conferences, videos, website, travel), 7% on FMV.   Our largest expense category was developer salaries and grants including ~$100K for Toast and ~$100K for HackFisher as well as salaries for over a dozen different developers.   

Early next year I will have Stan prepare a breakdown on what categories the $3.6 million in AGS donations were spent on as a final report. 

In 2015 we hope to raise the bar in both efficiency, productivity, and transparency.   

Anything said in this post are rough estimates from memory and are not official statements.  The numbers may be completely wrong.

Just a reminder:  the AGS donations had NO STRINGS ATTACHED.   I did my best with the funds to further my own objectives of securing life, liberty, and property for all.   If you are unhappy with how we managed the money I am sorry, I suggest you focus on how the government is wasting far more than I did.    I am a mere software engineer with a grand vision who was learning a lot as I went.   

Happy New Years Everyone!

« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 09:57:58 pm by bytemaster »
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

charleshoskinson

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2014, 09:52:06 pm »
How much did you pay yourself?

Offline cass

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2014, 09:53:44 pm »
Happy new year!
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2014, 09:54:04 pm »
How much did you pay yourself?

I had a lower salary than almost all of the developers and took a bonus of equal size.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

charleshoskinson

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2014, 09:55:17 pm »
Quote
I had a lower salary than almost all of the developers and took a bonus of equal size.

Thanks for the transparency  and happy new year. Good work this year Dan. It must have been hell getting through all of it. Hopefully next year will be better for both of us.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2014, 09:56:04 pm »
How much did you pay yourself?

fair question
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sumantso

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2014, 09:56:22 pm »
If you are unhappy with how we managed the money I am sorry, I suggest you focus on how the government is waisting far more than I did.

Waist - BM's kryptonite. Maybe he is eating too many pies.

Happy New Year fellow BTSers :)

Offline cass

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2014, 09:56:39 pm »
Quote
I had a lower salary than almost all of the developers and took a bonus of equal size.

Thanks for the transparency  and happy new year. Good work this year Dan. It must have been hell getting through all of it. Hopefully next year will be better for both of us.

Wish you all best for 2015 !  +5%
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charleshoskinson

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2014, 09:57:12 pm »
Quote
Waist - BM's kryptonite. Maybe he is eating too many pies.

It's the Soda. I remember Pam trying to limit the consumption. Dangerous stuff. I put on 25 pounds myself this year. Too much stress and traveling.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2014, 09:58:23 pm »
If you are unhappy with how we managed the money I am sorry, I suggest you focus on how the government is waisting far more than I did.

Waist - BM's kryptonite. Maybe he is eating too many pies.

Happy New Year fellow BTSers :)
I grew two belt notches this year... it is on my mind :)
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline speedy

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2014, 10:15:00 pm »
In 2015 we hope to raise the bar in both efficiency, productivity, and transparency.

I think I speak for many here when I say the team's performance in 2014 was outstanding!

Offline onceuponatime

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2014, 10:22:52 pm »
I no longer have to pay for cable, bars, movies, sports, or any entertainment at all. Trying to keep up with Bitshares takes up all of my time. So I have certainly gotten my money's worth   ;D

Happy New Year everyone.

Offline nz

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2015, 12:21:42 am »
How much did you pay yourself?

I had a lower salary than almost all of the developers and took a bonus of equal size.

I applaud your efforts, dedication and vision bytemaster. Thank you for all you have done and will do.
Heres to a great 2015.

PS. This goes for all the other developers too by the way  :)
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Offline robrigo

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2015, 12:27:41 am »
As somebody who likes to read new commits to the repo I got to say that the BTS team works their asses off! You guys definitely deserve it. Good work BTS team, for going live with the project in 2014 and then elegantly bootstrapping it via crowdfunding and equity.

And with that, a large amount of stake has now become further distributed.  +5% for boosting trust in the network going into 2015.

Offline mitao

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2015, 12:53:25 am »
Are devs free to leave the project if they want?

Offline Rune

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2015, 01:10:07 am »
Best dev team ever

Offline eagleeye

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2015, 01:17:28 am »
Sounds good Dan you have done the best job you could.


Offline xiahui135

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2015, 02:02:44 am »
hope bts and bit-assets will be easier to use. bitUSD is a great innovation, and i hope it usable to common people.

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2015, 02:03:16 am »
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Offline ssjpts

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2015, 03:16:56 am »
No Bonuses for the BTS supporter here :'(,but we love you all.Happy New Year 2015,Happy New BTS Year. ;)
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Offline Thom

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2015, 03:53:11 am »
How much did you pay yourself?

I had a lower salary than almost all of the developers and took a bonus of equal size.

I applaud your efforts, dedication and vision bytemaster. Thank you for all you have done and will do.
Heres to a great 2015.

PS. This goes for all the other developers too by the way  :)

 +5% -- couldn't have said it any better myself. Way to go everyone, and especially you BM
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Offline mint chocolate chip

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2015, 04:07:25 am »
A most impressive effort in 2014. It truly is amazing how much was accomplished this year by all the developers; Dan your leadership is exemplary.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2015, 04:31:18 am »
Congrats on a job well done! Now let's crank this thing to the next level and beyond!

Offline BTSdac

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2015, 04:39:15 am »
happy new year
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2015, 04:53:16 am »
Thx for the efforts and transparancy ... the devs deserve every single larimer ... for sure ...

Left to say: happy new year from sydney
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2015, 05:22:24 am »
No Bonuses for the BTS supporter here :'(,but we love you all.Happy New Year 2015,Happy New BTS Year. ;)
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Bonus sent . Enjoy .
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Offline Overthetop

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2015, 06:56:40 am »
Happy New Years Everyone!

 :)
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Offline abelljefrry

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2015, 08:32:47 am »
Happy New Year to BM & all the developers behind BitShares!

Thanks for the great 2014!
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Offline CalabiYau

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2015, 08:44:14 am »
Thank you for the good job everyone.

Happy New Year !
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 08:52:19 am by CalabiYau »

Offline crypto4ever

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2015, 08:51:47 am »

Just wanted to say...

A lot of people are about money, it's how we're designed by the status quo and social upbringing.

I saw things said from toast and Bytemaster this year that proved to me, that they actually aren't chasing money as much as they want to do the right thing with their talents and leave a legacy behind them.

For that, I am very supportive and appreciative of their efforts.   We don't need to ride them to perform. They're putting their sweat equity in this not just for profit, but to create something they're proud of... For that, they have my upmost respect, and it's like a new sun shining bright on all of us.

Congrats to all developers working as hard as you can. All of you deserve the same respect. Be proud of your contributions to this.. It's more than profit. It's changing life for millions of people if it works.

Happy New Year.

Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2015, 11:18:35 am »
Thx for the efforts and transparancy ... the devs deserve every single larimer ... for sure ...

  +5% Happy New Year!

Offline Harvey

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2015, 01:15:08 pm »
Wish everyone all the best in 2015!
 +5%
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Offline cube

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2015, 01:18:42 pm »
Thanks for the report.  I appreciate the transparency.  Looking forward to another impressive year ahead.

Well wishes to BM, Stan, toast and others in the team.  Have a happy new year!
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 01:20:18 pm by cube »
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Offline Riverhead

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2015, 02:05:26 pm »
A fantastic year that saw good times and bad. A hearty congratulations to Dan, Stan, Toast, Nathan, Adam, Vikram, and the many others I am not remembering, for having the vision and tenacity to stay the course.

2015 is going to be awesome.



Offline svk

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2015, 02:28:01 pm »
Thanks for the transparency and for all your hard work! Keep it up, 2015 will be amazing :)
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Offline bitmarket

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2015, 02:47:21 pm »
What??  Not one person bitching and moaning?   It almost like all these people from all over the world have a unifying goal and shared vision.  That shit is powerful.

Well done everyone.  2015 is going to be epic.
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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2015, 03:02:09 pm »
best start in 2015 for everyone, especially every "fulltime" BTSer.

Wish us all the best  +5% for everyone.

Offline Gentso1

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2015, 03:17:33 pm »
What??  Not one person bitching and moaning?   It almost like all these people from all over the world have a unifying goal and shared vision.  That shit is powerful.

Well done everyone.  2015 is going to be epic.

Just wait for it.....

You mentioned trying to be more efficient in 2015, did you feel like you weren't efficient in 2014? What do you plan to do differently in 2015?

Offline bytemaster

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2015, 03:23:31 pm »
What??  Not one person bitching and moaning?   It almost like all these people from all over the world have a unifying goal and shared vision.  That shit is powerful.

Well done everyone.  2015 is going to be epic.

Just wait for it.....

You mentioned trying to be more efficient in 2015, did you feel like you weren't efficient in 2014? What do you plan to do differently in 2015?

In 2014 there was a bit of wasted effort on Keyhotee and the Marketing department failed miserably.  2015 should be much better.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2015, 03:58:58 pm »
What??  Not one person bitching and moaning?   It almost like all these people from all over the world have a unifying goal and shared vision.  That shit is powerful.

Well done everyone.  2015 is going to be epic.

Just wait for it.....

You mentioned trying to be more efficient in 2015, did you feel like you weren't efficient in 2014? What do you plan to do differently in 2015?

In 2014 there was a bit of wasted effort on Keyhotee and the Marketing department failed miserably.  2015 should be much better.

People , grab the steering wheel of the marketing race car ourselves , hit the accelerator now !
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Offline NewMine

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2015, 04:45:19 pm »
What??  Not one person bitching and moaning?   It almost like all these people from all over the world have a unifying goal and shared vision.  That shit is powerful.

Well done everyone.  2015 is going to be epic.

Complaining amidst this circle jerk would be pointless.

I will predict that 6months from now, despite this $50K bonus to each developer, there will be complaining about how they are not getting paid enough and most likely will "propose" multiple delegates per developer or they will bail. The $150K for the past year is more than the average targeted BitShares user will make over 3 years, but not enough for themselves.

In light of the Marketing mess and AGS funds depleted, I do find this a slap in the face. A $50,000 bonus after all the claims of of "we are out of money". I guess this was Brian Page's earmarked shares that you guys are greedily taking for yourselves?

*Why no bonus for the NullSt. people?  Can I have a severance too? I will take 3 million BTS to go away and never come back. Send to newmine  ;)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 05:01:20 pm by NewMine »

Offline lovejoy

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2015, 04:46:28 pm »
A hearty thank you to all who have contributed their herculean efforts to this grand vision thus far!
And especially for Dan, and his merry crew, who have not wavered in that vision even at the most challenging of moments.

2015 is going to be a strong showing from this community... I can feel it!

Offline bytemaster

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2015, 05:05:21 pm »
What??  Not one person bitching and moaning?   It almost like all these people from all over the world have a unifying goal and shared vision.  That shit is powerful.

Well done everyone.  2015 is going to be epic.

Complaining amidst this circle jerk would be pointless.

I will predict that 6months from now, despite this $50K bonus to each developer, there will be complaining about how they are not getting paid enough and most likely will "propose" multiple delegates per developer or they will bail. The $150K for the past year is more than the average targeted BitShares user will make over 3 years, but not enough for themselves.

In light of the Marketing mess and AGS funds depleted, I do find this a slap in the face. A $50,000 bonus after all the claims of of "we are out of money". I guess this was Brian Page's earmarked shares that you guys are greedily taking for yourselves?

There is no greed going on here.  Is the average targeted BitShares user working 60+ hours per week?  These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google and for the next 6 months are working for delegate pay of just $2500 per month or less than $10,000.   The only person who is greedy are those who expect to profit from the work of others.

As far as "out of money" goes we are out of BTC and the BTS we have remaining is all budgeted for the next year and thus cannot be spent. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2015, 05:07:09 pm »
Quote
*Why no bonus for the NullSt. people?  Can I have a severance too? I will take 3 million BTS to go away and never come back. Send to newmine  ;)

That is why you don't get a bonus/severance.  Those that did get it are committed to the cause and will not abandon the project even though in our contract-free ecosystem they could.   

« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 05:53:12 pm by Stan »
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Offline RenaudGagne

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2015, 06:03:42 pm »
I applaud your herculean efforts and achievements.

Marketing is a community effort and if you are invested in Bitshares, you have an incentive to shout about it on the rooftops(and upvote every single post about it on reddit).

Offline liondani

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2015, 06:12:33 pm »
It's more than profit. It's changing life for millions of people if it works.
Happy New Year.

 +5% +5% +5%


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Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2015, 09:01:17 pm »
We appreciate all your efforts to make BTS better and better.

Happy new year!
BTS committee member:jademont

Offline NewMine

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2015, 09:12:39 pm »
What??  Not one person bitching and moaning?   It almost like all these people from all over the world have a unifying goal and shared vision.  That shit is powerful.

Well done everyone.  2015 is going to be epic.

Complaining amidst this circle jerk would be pointless.

I will predict that 6months from now, despite this $50K bonus to each developer, there will be complaining about how they are not getting paid enough and most likely will "propose" multiple delegates per developer or they will bail. The $150K for the past year is more than the average targeted BitShares user will make over 3 years, but not enough for themselves.

In light of the Marketing mess and AGS funds depleted, I do find this a slap in the face. A $50,000 bonus after all the claims of of "we are out of money". I guess this was Brian Page's earmarked shares that you guys are greedily taking for yourselves?

There is no greed going on here.  Is the average targeted BitShares user working 60+ hours per week?  These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google and for the next 6 months are working for delegate pay of just $2500 per month or less than $10,000.   The only person who is greedy are those who expect to profit from the work of others.

As far as "out of money" goes we are out of BTC and the BTS we have remaining is all budgeted for the next year and thus cannot be spent.

It's total greed on all accounts and parties. Even me. Your altruistic intentions disappeared the second you required people to "donate" in order for you to develop your world changing idea.(By the way, I see no evidence of Satoshi Nakamoto asking to be paid while he developed Bitcoin). They further disappeared when you devalued your investors share so you could continue to siphon money out of BTS just to stay on board.

Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have. It speaks volume that you resort to this justification continually.  Just because you guys misjudged the opportunity cost involved in working on this project, doesn't mean you get to risk everyone's investment a la VOTE dilution and these bonuses so you make yourself whole in value to what you predicted you should've been paid.

Offline toast

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2015, 09:15:13 pm »
Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have.

I reneged on my offer which effectively blacklists me from applying there again any time soon. "They would have" is directly contradicted by the evidence.
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Offline NewMine

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2015, 09:22:16 pm »
Quote
*Why no bonus for the NullSt. people?  Can I have a severance too? I will take 3 million BTS to go away and never come back. Send to newmine  ;)

That is why you don't get a bonus/severance.  Those that did get it are committed to the cause and will not abandon the project even though in our contract-free ecosystem they could.

Wat? I have no affiliation with NullSt guys. I am just saying they are making about $2K per month and doing a better job than all of you guys, Stan, You, Brian Page etc. in the marketing arena and your near 1/2 a million dollars in pay you've paid yourselves. Just saying, maybe Stan's bonus (not sure why he earned it) should've gone to those guys.

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2015, 09:22:48 pm »
Quote
(By the way, I see no evidence of Satoshi Nakamoto asking to be paid while he developed Bitcoin)

Lol. All praise satoshi, the great messiah of crypto. Our lord and saviour did not ask for payment for developing his bit coin, thus anyone doing so are HERETICS!!!

Offline NewMine

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2015, 09:24:51 pm »
Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have.

I reneged on my offer which effectively blacklists me from applying there again any time soon. "They would have" is directly contradicted by the evidence.


I apologize. Can I have a link to the "evidence".

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2015, 09:25:22 pm »
I actually strongly agree about nullstreet guys being underpaid ATM.
Their delegates are getting voted in though.
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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2015, 09:25:40 pm »
Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have.

I reneged on my offer which effectively blacklists me from applying there again any time soon. "They would have" is directly contradicted by the evidence.


I apologize. Can I have a link to the "evidence".

PM'ing you
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Offline donkeypong

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2015, 09:26:55 pm »
Quote
*Why no bonus for the NullSt. people?  Can I have a severance too? I will take 3 million BTS to go away and never come back. Send to newmine  ;)

That is why you don't get a bonus/severance.  Those that did get it are committed to the cause and will not abandon the project even though in our contract-free ecosystem they could.

Wat? I have no affiliation with NullSt guys. I am just saying they are making about $2K per month and doing a better job than all of you guys, Stan, You, Brian Page etc. in the marketing arena and your near 1/2 a million dollars in pay you've paid yourselves. Just saying, maybe Stan's bonus (not sure why he earned it) should've gone to those guys.

Hey NewMine, how are things going with NXT?

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2015, 09:28:55 pm »
Quote
(By the way, I see no evidence of Satoshi Nakamoto asking to be paid while he developed Bitcoin)

Lol. All praise satoshi, the great messiah of crypto. Our lord and saviour did not ask for payment for developing his bit coin, thus anyone doing so are HERETICS!!!

I am merely pointing out that development can happen without the requirement and demands of being paid large salaries.

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2015, 09:29:54 pm »
Quote
*Why no bonus for the NullSt. people?  Can I have a severance too? I will take 3 million BTS to go away and never come back. Send to newmine  ;)

That is why you don't get a bonus/severance.  Those that did get it are committed to the cause and will not abandon the project even though in our contract-free ecosystem they could.

Wat? I have no affiliation with NullSt guys. I am just saying they are making about $2K per month and doing a better job than all of you guys, Stan, You, Brian Page etc. in the marketing arena and your near 1/2 a million dollars in pay you've paid yourselves. Just saying, maybe Stan's bonus (not sure why he earned it) should've gone to those guys.

Hey NewMine, how are things going with NXT?

NXT is horrible! Wouldn't touch it with your money?

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2015, 09:32:45 pm »
Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have.

I reneged on my offer which effectively blacklists me from applying there again any time soon. "They would have" is directly contradicted by the evidence.


I apologize. Can I have a link to the "evidence".

PM'ing you

PM'd you back.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2015, 09:34:08 pm »
What??  Not one person bitching and moaning?   It almost like all these people from all over the world have a unifying goal and shared vision.  That shit is powerful.

Well done everyone.  2015 is going to be epic.

Complaining amidst this circle jerk would be pointless.

I will predict that 6months from now, despite this $50K bonus to each developer, there will be complaining about how they are not getting paid enough and most likely will "propose" multiple delegates per developer or they will bail. The $150K for the past year is more than the average targeted BitShares user will make over 3 years, but not enough for themselves.

In light of the Marketing mess and AGS funds depleted, I do find this a slap in the face. A $50,000 bonus after all the claims of of "we are out of money". I guess this was Brian Page's earmarked shares that you guys are greedily taking for yourselves?

There is no greed going on here.  Is the average targeted BitShares user working 60+ hours per week?  These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google and for the next 6 months are working for delegate pay of just $2500 per month or less than $10,000.   The only person who is greedy are those who expect to profit from the work of others.

As far as "out of money" goes we are out of BTC and the BTS we have remaining is all budgeted for the next year and thus cannot be spent.

It's total greed on all accounts and parties. Even me. Your altruistic intentions disappeared the second you required people to "donate" in order for you to develop your world changing idea.(By the way, I see no evidence of Satoshi Nakamoto asking to be paid while he developed Bitcoin). They further disappeared when you devalued your investors share so you could continue to siphon money out of BTS just to stay on board.

Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have. It speaks volume that you resort to this justification continually.  Just because you guys misjudged the opportunity cost involved in working on this project, doesn't mean you get to risk everyone's investment a la VOTE dilution and these bonuses so you make yourself whole in value to what you predicted you should've been paid.

Well fortunately I never claimed altruistic intentions and I despise altruism in general.   I have always maintained that I wanted to make freedom profitable for everyone involved.   People don't work for free. 
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Offline liondani

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2015, 10:31:21 pm »


  People don't work for free.

I am not sure about that... 
Can you define "free" ?



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Offline bytemaster

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2015, 11:44:42 pm »



  People don't work for free.

I am not sure about that... 
Can you define "free" ?



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Offline fuzzy

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2015, 11:50:03 pm »



  People don't work for free.

I am not sure about that... 
Can you define "free" ?



Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D

Work full time requires money for food, shelter and clothing.

The point should be rather that we try to take care of those in our community who do work.  Should they have to work free while some people just sit back and observe, risking nothing?
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2015, 11:54:34 pm »
What??  Not one person bitching and moaning?   It almost like all these people from all over the world have a unifying goal and shared vision.  That shit is powerful.

Well done everyone.  2015 is going to be epic.

Complaining amidst this circle jerk would be pointless.

I will predict that 6months from now, despite this $50K bonus to each developer, there will be complaining about how they are not getting paid enough and most likely will "propose" multiple delegates per developer or they will bail. The $150K for the past year is more than the average targeted BitShares user will make over 3 years, but not enough for themselves.

In light of the Marketing mess and AGS funds depleted, I do find this a slap in the face. A $50,000 bonus after all the claims of of "we are out of money". I guess this was Brian Page's earmarked shares that you guys are greedily taking for yourselves?

There is no greed going on here.  Is the average targeted BitShares user working 60+ hours per week?  These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google and for the next 6 months are working for delegate pay of just $2500 per month or less than $10,000.   The only person who is greedy are those who expect to profit from the work of others.

As far as "out of money" goes we are out of BTC and the BTS we have remaining is all budgeted for the next year and thus cannot be spent.

It's total greed on all accounts and parties. Even me. Your altruistic intentions disappeared the second you required people to "donate" in order for you to develop your world changing idea.(By the way, I see no evidence of Satoshi Nakamoto asking to be paid while he developed Bitcoin).

That is because he gave himself/herself/themselves a handsome genesis stake bro.  I know you can Google and Read or you wouldn't have made your way here.  Right now would be a good time to employ those skills. 

You try to make comparisons where they do not exist...just to make a point with negative connotations.  Happy New Year, and I look forward to seeing you working for free in the coming year ;)
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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2015, 04:01:52 am »

NXT is horrible! Wouldn't touch it with your money?

I'm kidding. You're a thorn in somebody's side, but I wouldn't accuse you of being a spy...much too obvious with the pessimism.

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2015, 06:19:16 am »
Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have.

I reneged on my offer which effectively blacklists me from applying there again any time soon. "They would have" is directly contradicted by the evidence.

I'm grateful that you did. If we can get this to work, just think of all the good it will help to produce.  What a great use of talent and what a legacy for yourself, dan and others.

Let's bring this puppy home over the next year or two and be grateful for what we have. There's a lot of people suffering out there.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 06:22:10 am by mike623317 »

Offline fuzzy

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2015, 12:20:10 pm »
Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have.

I reneged on my offer which effectively blacklists me from applying there again any time soon. "They would have" is directly contradicted by the evidence.

I'm grateful that you did. If we can get this to work, just think of all the good it will help to produce.  What a great use of talent and what a legacy for yourself, dan and others.

Let's bring this puppy home over the next year or two and be grateful for what we have. There's a lot of people suffering out there.


I personally agree with Rune's Statement that top devs should temporarily have more than 1 delegate.  It is beyond frustrating to me that people would even question whether someone like toast should be getting paid well for their work.  It is not like these guys are just sitting around drinking beer and eating chips all day...
They are innovating, working hard, pitching marketing ideas, helping manage forums and github repos, answering questions of investors, attending interviews...etc.  I sincerely doubt any of them get a normal night's sleep--ever.  The amount of complaining I see is (imho) shameful. 
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Offline cass

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2015, 12:22:00 pm »
Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have.

I reneged on my offer which effectively blacklists me from applying there again any time soon. "They would have" is directly contradicted by the evidence.

I'm grateful that you did. If we can get this to work, just think of all the good it will help to produce.  What a great use of talent and what a legacy for yourself, dan and others.

Let's bring this puppy home over the next year or two and be grateful for what we have. There's a lot of people suffering out there.


I personally agree with Rune's Statement that top devs should temporarily have more than 1 delegate.  It is beyond frustrating to me that people would even question whether someone like toast should be getting paid well for their work.  It is not like these guys are just sitting around drinking beer and eating chips all day...
They are innovating, working hard, pitching marketing ideas, helping manage forums and github repos, answering questions of investors, attending interviews...etc.  I sincerely doubt any of them get a normal night's sleep--ever.  The amount of complaining I see is (imho) shameful.

 +5% Well said! I second that!
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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2015, 01:39:02 pm »
Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have.

I reneged on my offer which effectively blacklists me from applying there again any time soon. "They would have" is directly contradicted by the evidence.

I'm grateful that you did. If we can get this to work, just think of all the good it will help to produce.  What a great use of talent and what a legacy for yourself, dan and others.

Let's bring this puppy home over the next year or two and be grateful for what we have. There's a lot of people suffering out there.


I personally agree with Rune's Statement that top devs should temporarily have more than 1 delegate.  It is beyond frustrating to me that people would even question whether someone like toast should be getting paid well for their work.  It is not like these guys are just sitting around drinking beer and eating chips all day...
They are innovating, working hard, pitching marketing ideas, helping manage forums and github repos, answering questions of investors, attending interviews...etc.  I sincerely doubt any of them get a normal night's sleep--ever.  The amount of complaining I see is (imho) shameful.
+1
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2015, 01:43:47 pm »
I am personally ok with adequate (relative to industry standards) pay and think it is necessary. But there should be complete transparency which is why I am very happy about this step / OP. If there is no transparency observers have to no basis to form an opinion which is the worst because it is the "job" of shareholders to form an opinion on whether to vote in a delegate or not. In the past I had to "vote blindly" for toast

Offline James212

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2015, 02:20:06 pm »
Tired of hearing "These developers could be earning over $100K per year at places like google". If they really could, they would have.

I reneged on my offer which effectively blacklists me from applying there again any time soon. "They would have" is directly contradicted by the evidence.

I'm grateful that you did. If we can get this to work, just think of all the good it will help to produce.  What a great use of talent and what a legacy for yourself, dan and others.

Let's bring this puppy home over the next year or two and be grateful for what we have. There's a lot of people suffering out there.


I personally agree with Rune's Statement that top devs should temporarily have more than 1 delegate.  It is beyond frustrating to me that people would even question whether someone like toast should be getting paid well for their work.  It is not like these guys are just sitting around drinking beer and eating chips all day...
They are innovating, working hard, pitching marketing ideas, helping manage forums and github repos, answering questions of investors, attending interviews...etc.  I sincerely doubt any of them get a normal night's sleep--ever.  The amount of complaining I see is (imho) shameful.

 +5% +5%
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Offline oldman

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2015, 03:09:06 pm »
Multiple delegates for core devs is a bad idea because precedent.

Core devs have large BTS stakes and are incentivized by their holdings.

Let's not forget that when BTS hits ~ $1 all of the core devs become independently wealthy.

At $10 - $100/BTS they join the ultra high net worth crowd.

Keeping the dev team hungry and lean right now is ideal. Experience talking.

With regard to dev pay BM needs to stop using the term 'bonus'.

I don't think anyone in the community feels core devs are over compensated.

However, bonuses are associated with achieving goals etc. and 2014 was defined by continually moving the goal posts.

This was a good thing and ultimately will increase stakeholder returns etc. but it's 2015 and no 1.0.

Perhaps it would have been wise to schedule 'bonus' payments on release of 1.0, probably more palatable to the community and more in line with common perception of bonusing schemes.

Going forward I would suggest that 'bonus' payments be tied to achieving milestones and everything else be compensation, whether paid as salary or lump sum.

My other take away is that BTS needs to hit $.5-$1 in 2015.




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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2015, 04:09:45 pm »
Just saying, maybe Stan's bonus (not sure why he earned it) should've gone to those guys.

Somewhat agree to this part, having a bonus as well as a 100% delegate is overkill. But maybe he is handling expenses we are not aware of?

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2015, 04:49:39 pm »
Multiple delegates for core devs is a bad idea because precedent.

Core devs have large BTS stakes and are incentivized by their holdings.

Let's not forget that when BTS hits ~ $1 all of the core devs become independently wealthy.

At $10 - $100/BTS they join the ultra high net worth crowd.

Keeping the dev team hungry and lean right now is ideal. Experience talking.

With regard to dev pay BM needs to stop using the term 'bonus'.

I don't think anyone in the community feels core devs are over compensated.

However, bonuses are associated with achieving goals etc. and 2014 was defined by continually moving the goal posts.

This was a good thing and ultimately will increase stakeholder returns etc. but it's 2015 and no 1.0.

Perhaps it would have been wise to schedule 'bonus' payments on release of 1.0, probably more palatable to the community and more in line with common perception of bonusing schemes.

Going forward I would suggest that 'bonus' payments be tied to achieving milestones and everything else be compensation, whether paid as salary or lump sum.

My other take away is that BTS needs to hit $.5-$1 in 2015.
If our developers are forced to live off their existing stash, most will not have any holdings at all by the end of this year.  Hardly a motivating proposition.

Ultimately we are competing against the obvious fact that, at some point, it is better for a developer to pull down $150K at  Google, live off $50K, and buy $100K worth of BTS - minus taxes.    Compare this to the strategy of trying to live off a single delegate's salary (1/4 of the going average rate) and having no new BTS at the end of the month -- in fact, having less because you were forced to eat into some of what you earned last year just to pay your rent.

So we don't really have the presumptive option to "keep the developers hungry and lean."  We need them more than they need us.   BitShares will need to compete with their other options.

As for the "bonus" strategy, our approach was simply dictated by IRS tax rules. "Bonuses" were an IRS-acceptable way to achieve best value for BitShares.  The fact that there might be more optimal ways to do things without artificial constraints placed on us by The Powers that Be, doesn't really matter.  We worked with several law firms and an international accounting firm to optimize last year's unique tax situation.   This stretched the value we were able to generate for the BitShares community to the max extent those expert advisers were able to conceive. 

 :)


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Offline liondani

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2015, 04:56:14 pm »
Multiple delegates for core devs is a bad idea because precedent.

Core devs have large BTS stakes and are incentivized by their holdings.

Let's not forget that when BTS hits ~ $1 all of the core devs become independently wealthy.

At $10 - $100/BTS they join the ultra high net worth crowd.

Keeping the dev team hungry and lean right now is ideal. Experience talking.

With regard to dev pay BM needs to stop using the term 'bonus'.

I don't think anyone in the community feels core devs are over compensated.

However, bonuses are associated with achieving goals etc. and 2014 was defined by continually moving the goal posts.

This was a good thing and ultimately will increase stakeholder returns etc. but it's 2015 and no 1.0.

Perhaps it would have been wise to schedule 'bonus' payments on release of 1.0, probably more palatable to the community and more in line with common perception of bonusing schemes.

Going forward I would suggest that 'bonus' payments be tied to achieving milestones and everything else be compensation, whether paid as salary or lump sum.

My other take away is that BTS needs to hit $.5-$1 in 2015.

I agree with you in general but don't forget bm was in pressure to give the bonuses earlier (end of 2014) because of taxes etc.  he would face if AGS funds would not spend the same year they purchased them... That was one of the main reason he made the merge thing (in my opinion, and not VOTE etc.) so a big stake of BTS from current devs are vested the next 2 years and they have still motivation to work for the project... Imagine the merge would not happen at 2014 and he would give the bonuses like he did now? ... am I missing something?
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Offline liondani

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2015, 05:11:30 pm »
Ultimately we are competing against the obvious fact that, at some point, it is better for a developer to pull down $150K at  Google, live off $50K, and buy $100K worth of BTS - minus taxes.   

I am starting as well to get tired to hear this Google argument every time Stan!
If that was true Google would have a whole Country of developers employed right know! Don't they stop to hire ?
Or after all if they would not believe on the project they would already work for Google, and believe me they would not buy  $100K worth of BTS but $100K worth of ripple, ethereum etc.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #75 on: January 02, 2015, 05:17:59 pm »
Ultimately we are competing against the obvious fact that, at some point, it is better for a developer to pull down $150K at  Google, live off $50K, and buy $100K worth of BTS - minus taxes.   

I am starting as well to get tired to hear this Google argument every time Stan!
If that was true Google would have a whole Country of developers employed right know! Don't they stop to hire ?
Or after all if they would not believe on the project they would already work for Google, and believe me they would not buy  $100K worth of BTS but $100K worth of ripple, ethereum etc.

Google is merely a proxy for market supply / demand for developer time and the need to pay competitive rates.   How do we know we are paying developers enough?  They work for us.  How do we know we aren't paying them too much?  Because they had other offers as similar prices elsewhere.    Ie: developers have an opportunity cost associated with working on BitShares. 

As far as Bonus / Severance goes it is all a matter of perspective.  What matters legally is that they have no legal obligation to perform work in 2015 for Invictus.     

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline neo1344

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #76 on: January 02, 2015, 05:26:08 pm »
lucrative shares!! nothing wrong for DEV to get paid however what happened to DNS snapshot allocation to exchanges? it has been almost two months now and Bter keep writing me that they have not received any BTS yet.this is biggest obstacles that Bitshares facing right nowadays.many investors has lost their trust to this community.
happy new year and best wishes

Offline Stan

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #77 on: January 02, 2015, 06:36:22 pm »
I agree with you in general but don't forget bm was in pressure to give the bonuses earlier (end of 2014) because of taxes etc.  he would face if AGS funds would not spend the same year they purchased them... That was one of the main reason he made the merge thing (in my opinion, and not VOTE etc.) so a big stake of BTS from current devs are vested the next 2 years and they have still motivation to work for the project... Imagine the merge would not happen at 2014 and he would give the bonuses like he did now? ... am I missing something?

You are pretty close, except for the phrase in bold.   Let me unravel it a bit into the logical reasoning sequence:

1.  The Great BitCoin Depression reduced our development runway from 2 down to 1 years.
2.  The idea of a self-funding block chain emerged as a solution that would provide sustainable long-term funding.
3.  With it, there was no need to incur the tax and progress penalties of carrying half the funds into the second year at a much slower burn rate.  Best value was to use all donations this year.
4.  VOTE was the next DAC available to be implemented to honor post-Feb AGS donors.
5.  To honorably build VOTE to be the best it could be, we would have implemented what BTS is today, including the self-funding strategy and inheriting all the features of BTS.
6.  That would have left BTSX as the far distant second-best crypto in the world - stuck without any further funding.
7.  This would have been contrary to BM's other obligation to do what was best for BTSX.

dilemma  [dih-lem-uh] noun
1. a situation requiring a choice between equally undesirable alternatives..

Thus, something had to give.  That led to the need for BM to focus on just one DAC so that each new, better, DAC didn't cannibalize the network effect of previous best effort.   

Thus the incorrectly named "merger" was
the ultimate effect not the initial cause.

We are here where we are by a Darwinian process of natural selection.  The current solution was deliberately engineered to be the most survivable. 

And to survive, we dinosaurs must continue to evolve. 
Rumor has it that mammals are on the drawing board...




Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline eagleeye

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Re: Year End Developer Bonuses
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2015, 12:30:01 am »
Quote
*Why no bonus for the NullSt. people?  Can I have a severance too? I will take 3 million BTS to go away and never come back. Send to newmine  ;)

That is why you don't get a bonus/severance.  Those that did get it are committed to the cause and will not abandon the project even though in our contract-free ecosystem they could.

Wat? I have no affiliation with NullSt guys. I am just saying they are making about $2K per month and doing a better job than all of you guys, Stan, You, Brian Page etc. in the marketing arena and your near 1/2 a million dollars in pay you've paid yourselves. Just saying, maybe Stan's bonus (not sure why he earned it) should've gone to those guys.

Stan earned his bonus, go f yourself.