Author Topic: Hangout every Friday @ 10am EST/STD  (Read 215558 times)

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Offline topcandle

According to new sharedrop 20% of IDentabit goes to current BTS holders.  Yet this mix of current BTS holders not only includes original BTS, PTS, AGS, but now also Dev and delegate stakes due to inflation.  Instead of getting a whole 20%, now BTS holders get less than that. Wouldn't you agree that the social contract has now effectively been broken?  bts can be effectively taxed through inflation, decreasing the ownership of current bts holders. 
It may be a small percentage, due to the 11 MM inflated thus far, but it is a misstep over the first rules outlayed.  How can we be sure that future chains will fully honor 20% to bts holders in future chains?  Wouldn't the right thing to do be to compensate bts holders for this extra 11MM in supply?  Do we not stand for principals?


 It may be small for now, but inflation has a way of changing the rules, so one day it may be possible BTS holders now only get 5% while dev and delegates get 15%. 

« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 10:16:33 pm by topcandle »
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Offline Stan

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And can BM reassure us that this 2% inflation is temporary? He keeps referring to "ongoing development through dilution" as if it will last forever.

And another thing we are doing to lower the percentage of dilution is forming Cryptonomex to seek outside funding and spread development costs over many more projects.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Stan

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And can BM reassure us that this 2% inflation is temporary? He keeps referring to "ongoing development through dilution" as if it will last forever.

Inflation can stop when either:
* Bitshares no longer requires paying for development support, either because it no longer needs active development, or its remaining developers are doing it for free or for referral fees, or for fees they get for use of smart contracts they are developing.  Maybe this state could be achieved in a couple years after all core features are developed?
OR
* Bitshares fees generated exceed development inflation costs.  If Bitshares were to become a successful crypto exchange on the order of something like Bitfinex, this would probably be the case, and we would be talking about Bitshares making a profit (be deflationary) rather than being inflationary.

Regardless, moving to 2.0 can probably cut inflation from 2% down to the 1-1.5% range due to elimination of marketing delegates.  The assumption is that markers profit from referrals they generate, and we will not need to use dilution to fund marketing delegates anymore.

I think it should be a goal that we set worker payout rate in 2.0 such that emission of BTS is lower than it is currently.  It is very possible to do this and cover worker proposals from the core dev team plus a few others.

Another factor that will reduce dilution is that Worker proposals can offer to have their pay vest over a specified period of time.
So some of our delegate slots can be switched over from vesting immediately to being locked up for gradual release over a year or more.
So a developer company can pay salaries out of their own working capital instead of selling BTS immediately.  So that company essentially lends its working capital to BTS in the form of development labor to be paid back later when the worker pay vests.

This delays the impact of paying for development with dilution until after the growth that development causes has occurred.

This is not a requirement on all workers, just one way they can sweeten their proposals to get them funded.

"I will gladly give you a hamburger today, for pay that vests Tuesday" as Popeye's friend Wimpy might say.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 11:47:25 pm by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Ander

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And can BM reassure us that this 2% inflation is temporary? He keeps referring to "ongoing development through dilution" as if it will last forever.

Inflation can stop when either:
* Bitshares no longer requires paying for development support, either because it no longer needs active development, or its remaining developers are doing it for free or for referral fees, or for fees they get for use of smart contracts they are developing.  Maybe this state could be achieved in a couple years after all core features are developed?
OR
* Bitshares fees generated exceed development inflation costs.  If Bitshares were to become a successful crypto exchange on the order of something like Bitfinex, this would probably be the case, and we would be talking about Bitshares making a profit (be deflationary) rather than being inflationary.

Regardless, moving to 2.0 can probably cut inflation from 2% down to the 1-1.5% range due to elimination of marketing delegates.  The assumption is that markers profit from referrals they generate, and we will not need to use dilution to fund marketing delegates anymore.

I think it should be a goal that we set worker payout rate in 2.0 such that emission of BTS is lower than it is currently.  It is very possible to do this and cover worker proposals from the core dev team plus a few others.
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Offline speedy

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And can BM reassure us that this 2% inflation is temporary? He keeps referring to "ongoing development through dilution" as if it will last forever.

Offline speedy

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Here is my question for next week's hangout:

According to bts blocks, we have 37 100% delegates resulting in inflation of 2.38% == 60 million BTS / year, or 164000 BTS / day.

My question is how can the increased fees earned in BTS 2.0 cover that daily deficit?

We currently average 600 BTS / day in fees. So we need to either fire some delegates or increase our daily earned fees x273.

While last week's philosophical discussion on the creation of money was interesting, is that really what we want to hear about? Everyone here already knows the current financial system is broken, but we arent going to "Replace the dollar" (33:05) if BitShares keeps expanding its money supply.


Offline fuzzy

Questions below this point will be asked in next week's hangout (14 AUG 2015)
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Offline yellowecho

Any estimate on when the new hangout will be posted to Soundcloud?  Or the raw? I wasn't able to attend this weeks hangout so I'm feeling out of the loop
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Offline Thom

I sent you a PM with the links to the raw mp3 recordings you requested.
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Offline fuzzy

Fuzzy, Any big plans for your 100th episode?

Nope to be honest our 100th episode was actually something like 7-8 episodes ago :P 
We will just keep trucking and keep trying to build a community to put bitshares and friends at the helm as it pushes cryptocurrencies to  a new level.
I do have plans though... just not for this specific occasion.

I'm way behind. I listen to them on SoundCload and the last one was marked E98.

I'm just glad you enjoy them :)
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline konelectric

Fuzzy, Any big plans for your 100th episode?

Nope to be honest our 100th episode was actually something like 7-8 episodes ago :P 
We will just keep trucking and keep trying to build a community to put bitshares and friends at the helm as it pushes cryptocurrencies to  a new level.
I do have plans though... just not for this specific occasion.

I'm way behind. I listen to them on SoundCload and the last one was marked E98.
Tweeter: Konelectric. Steemit: Konelectric. Youtube: Patrick Konshak. Success Council: Yourship. Mumble: Yourship or Konelectric.

Offline fuzzy

Fuzzy, Any big plans for your 100th episode?

Nope to be honest our 100th episode was actually something like 7-8 episodes ago :P 
We will just keep trucking and keep trying to build a community to put bitshares and friends at the helm as it pushes cryptocurrencies to  a new level.
I do have plans though... just not for this specific occasion. 
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D