Author Topic: Who is Cryptonomex?  (Read 1976 times)

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Offline bobmaloney

Who is Cryptonomex?
« on: June 16, 2015, 07:07:01 pm »
Since we are most likely going to be voting on awarding the majority of large worker contracts for the foreseeable future to Cryptonomex, I think it is the responsibility of the Bitshares community to require at least a responsible level of transparency regarding the makeup and ownership of what will be our largest contractor.

If there are a few big CNX investors that wish to remain anonymous for the time being - fine - but please allow the community to know that is at their request and weight the information ourselves.
They may wish to keep their anonymity and maybe the large percentage of this community will be OK with that, but in the spirit of what was Bitshares, I request a little more openness from here on out.

Now is the time for the community to set precedent on what requirements will be necessary from contractors, going forward.
I would like to see some answers to this before any of these proposals come to a vote.

My previous post that was unfortunately made at the end of the locked NuMine thread:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16902.msg216862.html#msg216862

Quote
I don't see it that way.

I think most people here with legitimate concerns (by now I think most of us know who to read, who to consider and who to skip) are over Cryptonomex as a company.

We don't know the ownership percentages - what little we do know is from the mumble - that bytemaster doesn't own 51%.

But how much do the angels own? Who are they?  What are their goals? Interests? Alignment?  This matters.

bytemaster's claim that they plan to diversify holdings is somewhat bothersome as well and a lot of that part of the mumble came off as kind of like - (not a quote) 'well, things are different now - we are Cryptonomex, you're not - so it's none of your business'

Yes, that is bothersome - and this is coming from someone who has been here since the beginning and trusted in the devs through every minor crisis to date.

If the diversification is short term, to pay for rather immediate expenses - OK, but if Cryptonomex is truly all-in on BTS - their holdings should reflect that.

Also - who is Cryptonomex?

What makes the team? I've been looking for a team page and have yet to find it.

Is Toast part of Cryptonomex? Vikram? Agent86? theoretical? who? - is there a link I'm not seeing?

Again, I think most concerned here have a tremendous amount of trust and faith in the Larimer's and the rest of the dev team, but we have yet to be convinced that Cryptonomex is not something that can run away from them.

I really hope to get some reassuring answers soon. We have our first Bay Area meetup on Thursday and I'm sure most of us have had enough of a hard time trying to get up to speed with the technical and operational 2.0 changes - I really would like this issue to be worked out before being blindsided by a newb with interest and not having an answer.

Lastly, thanks again to everybody in this community - from the devs to the lurkers who show up for 1 or 2 important posts. The last 18 months have been the most optimistic I have ever been that the next 100 years will be one of enlightenment and abundance.

Thank you
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 07:11:48 pm by bobmaloney »
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2015, 07:24:14 pm »
Dan, Stan, Ben, Nathan, Follow My Vote, Valentine, SVK, Cass, Chronos, Max W, Bo, Li,James,Vikram,Synapticad, Gregory, Lance (Agent86), Alt, Misc Laywers

In other words, people you know and love from around the forum.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Stan

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2015, 07:32:47 pm »
Since we are most likely going to be voting on awarding the majority large worker contracts for the foreseeable future to Cryptonomex, I think it is the responsibility of the Bitshares community to require at least a responsible level of transparency regarding the makeup and ownership of what will be our largest contractor.

If there are a few big CNX investors that wish to remain anonymous for the time being - fine - but please allow the community to know that is at their request and weight the information ourselves.
They may wish to keep their anonymity and maybe the large percentage of this community will be OK with that, but in the spirit of what was Bitshares, I request a little more openness from here on out.

Now is the time for the community to set precedent on what requirements will be necessary from contractors, going forward.
I would like to see some answers to this before any of these proposals come to a vote.

My previous post that was unfortunately made at the end of the locked NuMine thread:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16902.msg216862.html#msg216862

Quote
I don't see it that way.

I think most people here with legitimate concerns (by now I think most of us know who to read, who to consider and who to skip) are over Cryptonomex as a company.

We don't know the ownership percentages - what little we do know is from the mumble - that bytemaster doesn't own 51%.

But how much do the angels own? Who are they?  What are their goals? Interests? Alignment?  This matters.

bytemaster's claim that they plan to diversify holdings is somewhat bothersome as well and a lot of that part of the mumble came off as kind of like - (not a quote) 'well, things are different now - we are Cryptonomex, you're not - so it's none of your business'

Yes, that is bothersome - and this is coming from someone who has been here since the beginning and trusted in the devs through every minor crisis to date.

If the diversification is short term, to pay for rather immediate expenses - OK, but if Cryptonomex is truly all-in on BTS - their holdings should reflect that.

Also - who is Cryptonomex?

What makes the team? I've been looking for a team page and have yet to find it.

Is Toast part of Cryptonomex? Vikram? Agent86? theoretical? who? - is there a link I'm not seeing?

Again, I think most concerned here have a tremendous amount of trust and faith in the Larimer's and the rest of the dev team, but we have yet to be convinced that Cryptonomex is not something that can run away from them.

I really hope to get some reassuring answers soon. We have our first Bay Area meetup on Thursday and I'm sure most of us have had enough of a hard time trying to get up to speed with the technical and operational 2.0 changes - I really would like this issue to be worked out before being blindsided by a newb with interest and not having an answer.

Lastly, thanks again to everybody in this community - from the devs to the lurkers who show up for 1 or 2 important posts. The last 18 months have been the most optimistic I have ever been that the next 100 years will be one of enlightenment and abundance.

Thank you

Cryptonomex is currently owned by about 20 people you already know and presumably dearly love.
(Hint:  one way you can tell is if their emails end in @cryptonomex.com.)
Over time, the list of stakeholders will grow as more contributors join us.
Those with public roles will appear on our web site when we get around to it.
But their private ownership percentages is not for us to disclose.

I'm not sure what Dan meant by "diversification", but since I'm the one who would do the diversifying I'm sure I would know about it if we were. Obviously we must pay some of our bills in fiat and a few in BTC.  I can tell you that my ownership in BitShares has monotonically increased since the beginning.

You can have my BitShares when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.





Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2015, 07:36:40 pm »
Dan, Stan, Ben, Nathan, Follow My Vote, Valentine, SVK, Cass, Chronos, Max W, Bo, Li,James,Vikram,Synapticad, Gregory, Lance (Agent86), Alt, Misc Laywers

In other words, people you know and love from around the forum.

Dream Team!

Offline merivercap

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 07:43:05 pm »
Dan, Stan, Ben, Nathan, Follow My Vote, Valentine, SVK, Cass, Chronos, Max W, Bo, Li,James,Vikram,Synapticad, Gregory, Lance (Agent86), Alt, Misc Laywers

In other words, people you know and love from around the forum.

Dream Team!

That's awesome!   Hey you guys should leave some talent for the rest of us 3rd party startups too... :P
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Offline karnal

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2015, 07:44:49 pm »
Dan, Stan, Ben, Nathan, Follow My Vote, Valentine, SVK, Cass, Chronos, Max W, Bo, Li,James,Vikram,Synapticad, Gregory, Lance (Agent86), Alt, Misc Laywers

In other words, people you know and love from around the forum.

My heart is filled with the warm fuzzy feeling (tm) reading this +5%

Offline bobmaloney

Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2015, 07:56:11 pm »
But their private ownership percentages is not for us to disclose.

Understandable.

However, while Dan claimed that he did not own 51% - I can't help but worry that ownership may be lopsided enough (in favor of the angels) that a very small group can choose to divert the wishes of the rest of the group.

Additionally, my ignorance regarding IP law leads me to worry about what happen to those rights if something like that does happen.

Maybe we can get a list or pie chart of ownership percentages with names redacted?
Seeing an equal list of sub-10% ownership slices would sure let me sleep a lot easier with the current situation than seeing 2 or 3 30% slices.

I'm not sure what Dan meant by "diversification", but since I'm the one who would do the diversifying I'm sure I would know about it if we were. Obviously we must pay some of our bills in fiat and a few in BTC.  I can tell you that my ownership in BitShares has monotonically increased since the beginning.

My take from the mumble sounded as if there was to be diversification beyond BTS.
Again, I understand short-term costs and expenses, but I want to know that CNX is all in - and if they have positioned themselves to live and die with BTS.

Thanks again for addressing this.
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2015, 08:03:08 pm »
Angels control less than 20%
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Stan

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2015, 08:35:16 pm »

Maybe we can get a list or pie chart of ownership percentages with names redacted?
Seeing an equal list of sub-10% ownership slices would sure let me sleep a lot easier with the current situation than seeing 2 or 3 30% slices.

No one currently controls more than 15% of the shareholder votes. 

89.5% of the founding shares are held by American's and 10.5% are held by a Chinese angel investor.  Additional shares will be issued on an ongoing basis  to eligible contributors of capital and labor and will include shareholders from many nations, mostly drawn from well known members of this international community. 

Founding share distribution was negotiated based on past contributions by former Invictus contributors (50%) and shareholders (50%) in such a way as to ensure that all essential intellectual property resides with Cryptonomex.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 02:08:06 am by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline bobmaloney

Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2015, 09:25:32 pm »
Thanks for your replies and hard work.

Hopefully we can get a more in depth look at CNX via a Beyond Bitcoin interview with fuzzy in a similar manner as the Taulant/Bitsapphire Developer Hangout.

I believe that it will be beneficial to the community to hear about the CNX on this level before the worker proposal voting.

Thanks again fellas.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 10:01:00 pm by bobmaloney »
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
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Offline betax

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2015, 09:28:34 pm »
Dan, Stan, Ben, Nathan, Follow My Vote, Valentine, SVK, Cass, Chronos, Max W, Bo, Li,James,Vikram,Synapticad, Gregory, Lance (Agent86), Alt, Misc Laywers

In other words, people you know and love from around the forum.

 +5% Thanks for sharing, great people.
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Offline Ben Mason

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2015, 09:48:50 pm »
Dan, Stan, Ben, Nathan, Follow My Vote, Valentine, SVK, Cass, Chronos, Max W, Bo, Li,James,Vikram,Synapticad, Gregory, Lance (Agent86), Alt, Misc Laywers

In other words, people you know and love from around the forum.

 +5% Thanks for sharing, great people.

Yep. Probably the best development team in the world. Eat your heart out Google  ;)

Offline Ben Mason

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2015, 09:50:44 pm »
Oh and Bobmaloney, excellent questions, most courteously put!  +5%

Offline cass

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2015, 10:43:54 pm »
Quote
but I want to know that CNX is all in - and if they have positioned themselves to live and die with BTS.

I'm all in BitShares!
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline karnal

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2015, 10:58:03 pm »
Quote
but I want to know that CNX is all in - and if they have positioned themselves to live and die with BTS.

I'm all in BitShares!

+5%

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2015, 03:01:25 am »
Dan, Stan, Ben, Nathan, Follow My Vote, Valentine, SVK, Cass, Chronos, Max W, Bo, Li,James,Vikram,Synapticad, Gregory, Lance (Agent86), Alt, Misc Laywers

In other words, people you know and love from around the forum.

Answered in 17 minutes flat.  +5%
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Offline brainbug

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2015, 10:13:56 am »
Don't forget this document, by the Euro Banking Association, here:

https://www.abe-eba.eu/downloads/knowledge-and-research/EBA_20150511_EBA_Cryptotechnologies_a_major_IT_innovation_v1.0.pdf

BitShares is not mentioned but Ripple and friends as "asset-centric technologies". So, I'm wondering what BitShares would be..

In that regard, is CNX also concerned with compliance issues and lobbying, or "just" offering blockchain technology?

Offline Stan

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2015, 01:54:05 pm »
Dan, Stan, Ben, Nathan, Follow My Vote, Valentine, SVK, Cass, Chronos, Max W, Bo, Li,James,Vikram,Synapticad, Gregory, Lance (Agent86), Alt, Misc Laywers

In other words, people you know and love from around the forum.

Dream Team!

Speaking of Dream Team, Michael X should also have been included on this list. 

We expect this list to grow since Cryptonomex is mostly an employee owned company.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline bobmaloney

Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2015, 04:18:13 pm »
Who is this dude named Ben?

I'm drawing a blank with Li as well.
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Offline tonyk

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2015, 04:36:14 pm »
Who is this dude named Ben?

I'm drawing a blank with Li as well.

As far as I know [about 20% reliability] - Ben is drltc/theoretical/theoreticalbts, Li is the early Chinese investor in (BM) I3
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 04:43:28 pm by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline cass

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2015, 06:24:26 pm »
Dan, Stan, Ben, Nathan, Follow My Vote, Valentine, SVK, Cass, Chronos, Max W, Bo, Li,James,Vikram,Synapticad, Gregory, Lance (Agent86), Alt, Misc Laywers

In other words, people you know and love from around the forum.

Dream Team!


Pls don't forget Fabi/Xeroc on this dream team !!!
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Offline tonyk

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2015, 03:51:29 pm »
Providing information about a private company is something that goes against my core believes.

That said, in this circumstances it was much needed.
It was also well do -  just enough info -20% angels share; no one with more than 15%; info who is in.

 +5%


I have 2 other things, if you allow me - is Xeroc in? If not why? - this is question for him.

Other than Xeroc, I have a wish to see one more person in - arhag! I know he has stated earlier that he does not have the time to work on extra stuff as it is. This does not mean he is not interested in being a stakeholder (participating with money and general advice). I might have a man crush on him but I have not seen a single not well thought out idea. All his ideas are usually close to perfect. [The only problem I have ever had with them is...well being too perfect and so requiring a lot of work/coding when a 'just OK solution' will suffice]

Anyway - thanks for the answers already provided or upcoming.
 
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Who is Cryptonomex?
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2015, 04:41:51 pm »
@tonyk: no paper work has been done and no contract has been signes by me in that regard .. however I have a verbal aggreement with bm to get a "financial appreciation" for the work I "do" for bts2.0 (in particular python coding) .. note that I consider my previous "work" (support, coding, etc) as being delivered on a voluntery basis thus unpaid ..

Currently, I am in vacation and am happy to discuss this in detail when I am back at home ..

Finally, I do consider working in/for the BitShares ecosystem full-time in the near future .. (no details are decided yet though)


Ps. +5% to have arhag in "the team" (whatever that means) .. at least as a consultant ..
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