Can someone help me figure out the BTS price, compared to a 2billion supply?

[Ander]

I am counting the vesting shares as if they already existed.

But you are correct, until vesting ends there is extra sell pressure, and once it ends this sell pressure will go away.

[Frodo]

As BitShares supply can be deflationary if more fees are burned than new BTS released you can still grow your BTS holdings relative to total supply just by holding. Just like a stock buyback.

This isnt going to happen for at least another year. Calculations:

daily = 5e8 / (365 * 2)
684931 // new shares/day from vesting
daily * $0.004611
$3158

Until the vesting ends, BitShares needs to generate at least $3158/day in fees to be deflationary, and that doesnt include delegates.

Well it depends on how you look at it as all vested shares are already included in the current supply of 2.5something B BTS. So the total supply could decrease while it's still inflationary in terms of liquid BTS. But then again I wouldn't even expect that to happen too quickly.

[speedy]

As BitShares supply can be deflationary if more fees are burned than new BTS released you can still grow your BTS holdings relative to total supply just by holding. Just like a stock buyback.

This isnt going to happen for at least another year. Calculations:

daily = 5e8 / (365 * 2)
684931 // new shares/day from vesting
daily * $0.004611
$3158

Until the vesting ends, BitShares needs to generate at least $3158/day in fees to be deflationary, and that doesnt include delegates.

[thebutz]

Some earlier IPO investors have their funds dripped into their accounts so that they cannot dump massive amounts at a time.  It has nothing to do with mining.. we simply vote for our miners (who and how many)

Ah alright. That helps explain the price movements. I never took NXT or Ethereum that seriously as investments, NXT is a full premine (as evident by its constantly deteriorating price) and Ethereum is just getting manipulated beyond belief, anything that gets instant volatility upon release usually isn't worth it.  If that bits true about the devs waiting for Ether investors to cash out... wow. I feel like I stepped into Wonderland.

BTS pays witnesses to sign blocks and workers to perform tasks.
Both are elected by shareholders.
Referrers earn 80% of fees from everyone they refer.
Shareholders earn 20% of transaction fees paid as dividends by taking them out of service.
Collateralized bonds will pay peer to peer interest in version 2.1

So, you can earn with BTS, just by doing a variety of useful things.

Also thank you Frodo for your post as well, very helpful.

Alright, that answers my questions. Thank you very much! Bitshares is definitely looking like it will be at the forefront of the cryptocurrency movement. My only paranoia is that big banks will beat us to the punch, fork the github repo and claim it for themselves (from the news i've read this seems to be their intent), which would still be a huge leap forward for humanity anyway.. so long as they don't label freeform cryptocurrencies as 'financial terrorism' i guess we're good.

[Stan]

I would think there are some wallets with millions that are frozen or something.

Correct, the vested balances.

... I understand they are the ones privileged with signing blocks, so technically they're the only ones 'mining' the network? I wouldn't be able to stake my BTS and receive interest like in Peercoin, unless I became a delegate?

BTS pays witnesses to sign blocks and workers to perform tasks.
Both are elected by shareholders.
Referrers earn 80% of fees from everyone they refer.
Shareholders earn 20% of transaction fees paid as dividends by taking them out of service.
Collateralized bonds will pay peer to peer interest in version 2.1

So, you can earn with BTS, just by doing a variety of useful things.

[Frodo]

I would think there are some wallets with millions that are frozen or something.

Correct, the vested balances.

Is this the same thing as staking in normal PoS? I'm reading through the wiki now, not finding much about it. I found this:

No, vested balances have nothing to do with the consensus mechanism. It has been decided that some shares (from the "merger") should be released gradually over time.

So only the 101 delegates stake BTS? I understand they are the ones privileged with signing blocks, so technically they're the only ones 'mining' the network?

I wouldn't call it staking as it is independent of the amount of BTS they are holding. Delegates (witnesses in 2.0) are signing blocks and get payed in BTS. As everyone is free to run for a delegate spot competition should keep the payment that delegates receive reasonable.

I wouldn't be able to stake my BTS and receive interest like in Peercoin, unless I became a delegate?

No. Delegates do not receive interest for the BTS they are holding. Delegates are signing blocks in rounds, each round each delegate signs one block and receives a fixed amount of BTS for that block. It is really better to look at it as a service that delegates/witnesses provide in exchange for fixed pay.

As BitShares supply can be deflationary if more fees are burned than new BTS released you can still grow your BTS holdings relative to total supply just by holding. Just like a stock buyback.

[thebutz]

I would think there are some wallets with millions that are frozen or something.

Correct, the vested balances.

Is this the same thing as staking in normal PoS? I'm reading through the wiki now, not finding much about it. I found this:

"They [delegates] also post a small bond equal to 100x the average pay they receive for producing a single block. To make a profit a director must have greater than 99% uptime."

So only the 101 delegates stake BTS? I understand they are the ones privileged with signing blocks, so technically they're the only ones 'mining' the network? I wouldn't be able to stake my BTS and receive interest like in Peercoin, unless I became a delegate?

Do you think this project isnt worth 10 million?  Look at market cap, not the price of one individual coin.

$10m market cap is fair, also Bitshares price was resting at what looks like an all time low (1500satoshis). Just wanting to make sure what i'm buying into. The community here is certainly far more active than most other cryptos, actually might be the MOST active. I'm also convinced DPoS is the right way to go as far as market-adoption. The combination of democratic voting along with a public blockchain that gives 100% transparency to their actions is... amazing. Almost too good to be true. Hence my scrutiny over the current price.

Just gotta make sure before I jump on board.. thanks all for helping this noob out.

[Ander]

So apparently there are 2,511,953,117 bitshares in existence currently.

The current price is hovering between 1.5k-2.5k satoshis.

Does that not seem a little inflated? I would expect the price to be a lot less. Could anyone help me understand the price justification? It seems somewhat fixed, I would think there are some wallets with millions that are frozen or something. But then again, BTS is one of the most prominent altcoins that regularly holds >$100k daily volume.

I haven't been part of the community long, considering investing some money into this project but I can't seem to find any justification for the price. I appreciate any insight, it's just hard to believe an altcoin with this many units in supply can be this valued.. although i do see the value. DPoS model seems to be what banks are going to utilize.

Do you think this project isnt worth 10 million?  Look at market cap, not the price of one individual coin.

[jsidhu]

Then in ops eyes ethereum is inflated.. Heck Bitcoin is also inflated.

Hint: look at market cap not total coins. The value of bts is baked in and market cap of $100 million is not out of the realm of possibility.

[Stan]

So apparently there are 2,511,953,117 bitshares in existence currently.

The current price is hovering between 1.5k-2.5k satoshis.

Does that not seem a little inflated? I would expect the price to be a lot less. Could anyone help me understand the price justification? It seems somewhat fixed, I would think there are some wallets with millions that are frozen or something. But then again, BTS is one of the most prominent altcoins that regularly holds >$100k daily volume.

I haven't been part of the community long, considering investing some money into this project but I can't seem to find any justification for the price. I appreciate any insight, it's just hard to believe an altcoin with this many units in supply can be this valued.. although i do see the value. DPoS model seems to be what banks are going to utilize.

Compare the value to those above it in the market.

The world's first self-governing, industrial grade, real-time block chain.
It can interact with the other side of the planet at NASDAQ speeds.

It's not just a coin,
it's a platform for implementing many coins.

It's not just a decentralized exchange,
it's a platform for networking many exchanges.

It can hire and fund its own developers.
It has powerful referral incentives for many companies to sign up all their customers.
It's about to be sharedropped on by two other real time chains at random dates this fall.

And 99.9999% of the world doesn't even know about it yet.

[Tuck Fheman]

I would think there are some wallets with millions that are frozen or something.

Correct, the vested balances.

[thebutz]

So apparently there are 2,511,953,117 bitshares in existence currently.

The current price is hovering between 1.5k-2.5k satoshis.

Does that not seem a little inflated? I would expect the price to be a lot less. Could anyone help me understand the price justification? It seems somewhat fixed, I would think there are some wallets with millions that are frozen or something. But then again, BTS is one of the most prominent altcoins that regularly holds >$100k daily volume.

I haven't been part of the community long, considering investing some money into this project but I can't seem to find any justification for the price. I appreciate any insight, it's just hard to believe an altcoin with this many units in supply can be this valued.. although i do see the value. DPoS model seems to be what banks are going to utilize.