Can we have some lawyers advising on this?

[mf-tzo]

@ devlux 

Thank you very very much!. I really appreciate your effort to write this and it has cleared a lot of things for me. 

[jakub]

I'm not a securities lawyer, I've been around long enough to speak from a place of confidence, but of course I'm not an expert.
Also no lawyer could or should answer your question because then you would be relying upon their advice rather than doing your own homework or asking someone who is familiar with your own situation.  There may be outliers that would change the outcome of even the best advice.

I'm going to answer your question with the best answer I can give you.  However I'm not an expert.  My advice isn't worth anything here to a court of law, it should not be relied upon for personal guidance.  It is solely my own opinion and does not reflect the views or opinions of anyone else.

To answer your questions...

First off this is an adminstrative decision and only applies to the USA and very likely Canada since they are so intertwined. 
If you're outside the USA & Canada, that link probably doesn't mean anything to you, you need to research the applicable laws in your own country.

If you're in USA or Canada then you still don't have much to worry about here...
 
You are mixing up the concept of "restrictions on regulated speakers" while forgetting that you have a constitutional right of free speech.

You as an individual, are not liable for giving advice, legal, financial or otherwise unless you are "holding yourself out" as an expert.
Holding yourself out can feel like a very vague term.  There is an enormous amount of case law on the subject, but generally it boils down to how you present yourself.  While compensation is part of that, the bigger part is your own statements and intent.

For example, I can tell you all day long that I think that Coca-Cola shares are going to the moon, but as long I'm not speaking from a position of perceived expertise it doesn't matter at all what I say. 

As soon as I speak from a position of expertise, perceived or real, that's when my speech (or yours) becomes a regulated activity.
There is a thin bright line, and that bright line is the "perception of expertise" in the subject matter at hand and whether a reasonable person could be lead to believe it that I am someone who should be listened to.

Going back to the Coca-Cola example.  If I tell you I'm a day trader and I study all the latest news reports and charts, and I that I think Coca-cola will double in the next 30 days.  Here is my affiliate link to e-trade if you sign up with it you'll get a discount on your fees and I'll make a small percentage.  That treads on the line, but does not cross it.  Why?

Because I'm just a day-trader.  I'm managing my money, but I'm not making a living managing the money of others.  I'm not selling you anything and you're not buying a regulated product from me.

In the final analysis, my advice may be better or it may be worse than what you get from your investment advisor, but you aren't trusting me with your money.  You're simply considering my opinion and since you did not pay me for my opinion, the old adage "you get what you pay for" tends to hold true.

Now, what if I sell a newsletter by subscription? You're one of thousands of subscribers and I give you the same advice via my weekly column.  I'm widely heralded in the news as the next Warren Buffet and everyone of my subscribers does whatever I say like they think I'm the next Rush Limbaugh? 

You may think that my advice would be regulated.
And in this case it is, but only cursorly.  In this case I would need to state clearly up front, whether or not I hold, or intend to hold the security I'm recommending and whether or not I am a registered broker.  As a CYA move I should also state up front that what I'm saying is my own personal belief and is not intended to be advice particular to anyone's situation and that they should consult their registered investment advisor prior to making any decisions based on the information given.

As long as I cover those points I can say any dang thing I want to.  So can you.  If you ever read any of the "investment advice" columns, you'll note that they all pretty much say exactly what I just said.  Disclaimers exist for a reason and legal liabilities would be the reason for said disclaimers. 

These guys/gals you're reading are all considered "laymen", they are not investment advisers and even if they are, they are still very likely not YOUR investment advisor.

So where do we cross the line?  As soon as we accept money for "particular advice" or actively encourage a particular action.

If I say to you.  "Give me $1,000 and I will give you $2,000 in a month because I know a hot stock", that is obviously me attempting to function as a broker, this is regulated.  I can really only say things like that if I'm a registered broker.  *that particular statement crosses other lines, but I won't go there right now*.

Now what happens if you, and 10 other folks all decide to pitch in $500 each and you ask me to manage it with the condition that we all split the profits? You choose to do this, because I'm an awesome day trader with a proven track record that you happened to meet standing in line at a starbucks?

Believe it or not, this is not being a broker. What I've just described is called an investment club and as long as we all know eachother personally that's not regulated.  However if I say "Give me $50 and I'll tell you the next hot stock I think you should buy.", that would be investment advice and that is regulated.

Clear as mud?

Let me simplify. 

If you are giving advice about what to invest in, and that advice is particular to an individual's situation and you are holding yourself out as an expert, then you're acting as an unregistered investment advisor. 

Furthermore, if you take an individual's money and give them shares in anything, then you are acting as an unregistered broker. 

However if you are being compensated for people signing up for something such as via a referal program, you're in the clear, but you should make it crystal clear that you are being compensated and you are giving advice in the general sense, not "particular advice".

If you say "I think everyone should buy bitshares it's the next hot thing, You saw what happened with bitcoin right?  Bitshares is the next bitcoin! Here's a link to get a bitshares wallet."
 
This is no problem, the advice is general "I think EVERYONE should buy bitshares".

If you say "I think you should buy bitshares, it's the next hot thing.  You saw what happened with bitcoin right?  Bitshares is the next bitcoin!", that's actually a problem even if you're just telling it someone you meet at random at a coffee shop.

Here, you are holding yourself out as an expert as sooon as you said "I think YOU should buy bitshares."

The only major difference between the two statements is in the tailoring of the message to a specific person, but it's enough to potentially get you in trouble because you're putting out an aire of expertise.

Hope that's helpful, take it for what it's worth and remember I'm not a lawyer and this isn't intended to be legal advice just my 2c.

That's the most comprehensive explanation I've ever encountered.
Thank you, devlux.

[devlux]

I'm not a securities lawyer, I've been around long enough to speak from a place of confidence, but of course I'm not an expert.
Also no lawyer could or should answer your question because then you would be relying upon their advice rather than doing your own homework or asking someone who is familiar with your own situation.  There may be outliers that would change the outcome of even the best advice.

I'm going to answer your question with the best answer I can give you.  However I'm not an expert.  My advice isn't worth anything here to a court of law, it should not be relied upon for personal guidance.  It is solely my own opinion and does not reflect the views or opinions of anyone else.

To answer your questions...

First off this is an adminstrative decision and only applies to the USA and very likely Canada since they are so intertwined. 
If you're outside the USA & Canada, that link probably doesn't mean anything to you, you need to research the applicable laws in your own country.

If you're in USA or Canada then you still don't have much to worry about here...
 
You are mixing up the concept of "restrictions on regulated speakers" while forgetting that you have a constitutional right of free speech.

You as an individual, are not liable for giving advice, legal, financial or otherwise unless you are "holding yourself out" as an expert.
Holding yourself out can feel like a very vague term.  There is an enormous amount of case law on the subject, but generally it boils down to how you present yourself.  While compensation is part of that, the bigger part is your own statements and intent.

For example, I can tell you all day long that I think that Coca-Cola shares are going to the moon, but as long I'm not speaking from a position of perceived expertise it doesn't matter at all what I say. 

As soon as I speak from a position of expertise, perceived or real, that's when my speech (or yours) becomes a regulated activity.
There is a thin bright line, and that bright line is the "perception of expertise" in the subject matter at hand and whether a reasonable person could be lead to believe it that I am someone who should be listened to.

Going back to the Coca-Cola example.  If I tell you I'm a day trader and I study all the latest news reports and charts, and I that I think Coca-cola will double in the next 30 days.  Here is my affiliate link to e-trade if you sign up with it you'll get a discount on your fees and I'll make a small percentage.  That treads on the line, but does not cross it.  Why?

Because I'm just a day-trader.  I'm managing my money, but I'm not making a living managing the money of others.  I'm not selling you anything and you're not buying a regulated product from me.

In the final analysis, my advice may be better or it may be worse than what you get from your investment advisor, but you aren't trusting me with your money.  You're simply considering my opinion and since you did not pay me for my opinion, the old adage "you get what you pay for" tends to hold true.

Now, what if I sell a newsletter by subscription? You're one of thousands of subscribers and I give you the same advice via my weekly column.  I'm widely heralded in the news as the next Warren Buffet and everyone of my subscribers does whatever I say like they think I'm the next Rush Limbaugh? 

You may think that my advice would be regulated.
And in this case it is, but only cursorly.  In this case I would need to state clearly up front, whether or not I hold, or intend to hold the security I'm recommending and whether or not I am a registered broker.  As a CYA move I should also state up front that what I'm saying is my own personal belief and is not intended to be advice particular to anyone's situation and that they should consult their registered investment advisor prior to making any decisions based on the information given.

As long as I cover those points I can say any dang thing I want to.  So can you.  If you ever read any of the "investment advice" columns, you'll note that they all pretty much say exactly what I just said.  Disclaimers exist for a reason and legal liabilities would be the reason for said disclaimers. 

These guys/gals you're reading are all considered "laymen", they are not investment advisers and even if they are, they are still very likely not YOUR investment advisor.

So where do we cross the line?  As soon as we accept money for "particular advice" or actively encourage a particular action.

If I say to you.  "Give me $1,000 and I will give you $2,000 in a month because I know a hot stock", that is obviously me attempting to function as a broker, this is regulated.  I can really only say things like that if I'm a registered broker.  *that particular statement crosses other lines, but I won't go there right now*.

Now what happens if you, and 10 other folks all decide to pitch in $500 each and you ask me to manage it with the condition that we all split the profits? You choose to do this, because I'm an awesome day trader with a proven track record that you happened to meet standing in line at a starbucks?

Believe it or not, this is not being a broker. What I've just described is called an investment club and as long as we all know eachother personally that's not regulated.  However if I say "Give me $50 and I'll tell you the next hot stock I think you should buy.", that would be investment advice and that is regulated.

Clear as mud?

Let me simplify. 

If you are giving advice about what to invest in, and that advice is particular to an individual's situation and you are holding yourself out as an expert, then you're acting as an unregistered investment advisor. 

Furthermore, if you take an individual's money and give them shares in anything, then you are acting as an unregistered broker. 

However if you are being compensated for people signing up for something such as via a referal program, you're in the clear, but you should make it crystal clear that you are being compensated and you are giving advice in the general sense, not "particular advice".

If you say "I think everyone should buy bitshares it's the next hot thing, You saw what happened with bitcoin right?  Bitshares is the next bitcoin! Here's a link to get a bitshares wallet."
 
This is no problem, the advice is general "I think EVERYONE should buy bitshares".

If you say "I think you should buy bitshares, it's the next hot thing.  You saw what happened with bitcoin right?  Bitshares is the next bitcoin!", that's actually a problem even if you're just telling it someone you meet at random at a coffee shop.

Here, you are holding yourself out as an expert as sooon as you said "I think YOU should buy bitshares."

The only major difference between the two statements is in the tailoring of the message to a specific person, but it's enough to potentially get you in trouble because you're putting out an aire of expertise.

Hope that's helpful, take it for what it's worth and remember I'm not a lawyer and this isn't intended to be legal advice just my 2c.

[cass]

This is true even if the trader does not live in the US because of the long reach of US law.

Here are some of the key land mines:

    While simply trading digital currency (like bitcoins) on an exchange does not require CFTC registration, if you give advice to others or otherwise involve yourself in the process of placing the trades of others, you may need to register with the CFTC.

WOW .. 

[jsidhu]

also, this is very specific. it's only US related

Have you read the link?

[fav]

also, this is very specific. it's only US related

[jsidhu]

There is no generic answer to your questions because the answers depend on your jurisdiction.

Moreover, answering these questions may be considered legal advice, which is itself illegal in some jurisdictions unless you're a lawyer.

Meanwhile the UN os trying to power grab the inet along with its banking cartel owned puppet nation state "public servants"...caring nothing for those nations' Constitutions and with all their actions at such ridiculous levels of corruption that we had to pivot to crypto in order to FIX the problems they started in the first place..

Sometimes it scares the crap out of me to realize that we have to walk on eggshells out of concern for being put in prison or fined while the very people who cause the crisis that brought crypto to the attention of the world go unhindered....and often even rewarded.

There has to be a way to not go to prison for fighting to make these a$$holes obsolete and destroy their world wide syndicate networks.

Regulators are not the ones that want to end crypto, its coming top down. These guys just follow rules.. In the end we all know its corrupt but different people have different thrreholds for crossing against the law based on circumstances. Yes it takes balls to make changes and as trust vs govt collapses so to does the confidence in acting against govt increase.

[fuzzy]

There is no generic answer to your questions because the answers depend on your jurisdiction.

Moreover, answering these questions may be considered legal advice, which is itself illegal in some jurisdictions unless you're a lawyer.

Meanwhile the UN os trying to power grab the inet along with its banking cartel owned puppet nation state "public servants"...caring nothing for those nations' Constitutions and with all their actions at such ridiculous levels of corruption that we had to pivot to crypto in order to FIX the problems they started in the first place..

Sometimes it scares the crap out of me to realize that we have to walk on eggshells out of concern for being put in prison or fined while the very people who cause the crisis that brought crypto to the attention of the world go unhindered....and often even rewarded.

There has to be a way to not go to prison for fighting to make these a$$holes obsolete and destroy their world wide syndicate networks.

[pc]

There is no generic answer to your questions because the answers depend on your jurisdiction.

Moreover, answering these questions may be considered legal advice, which is itself illegal in some jurisdictions unless you're a lawyer.

[mf-tzo]

I see that a lot of people looked at this post already and no one cared to answer..

No one has any opinion about the legality of things and no one cares to protect others from doing something they might regret later on?

If we want bitshares to succeed we need to have clear responses about why bitshares and the referral program is legal at least in the US and EU.

When I speak to serious investors of the current financial world I need to have clear responses to be able to explain them the legality of things..

So I will ask again:
if I advise people to register in bitshares under my name so I can earn the referral fees will I be breaking the law? If not why?
Do I need to have a disclaimer in my website?
Do I need a licence for doing this?
I assume that once I convert biteur to euro I will have to pay taxes but if I keep them in biteur no taxes are applicable correct?

How do I reply to questions like:
You can not exchange anything without getting taxed. Even if I exchange meat for bread you need to disclose somewhere this exchange or else it is illegal.
Bitcoin, biteur,bitusd are not the official Government money therefore they are illegal
Biteur is a financial derivative and a swap for euro and therefore are illegal and you need to have a licence to trade.
etc etc..

We need to be specific with these things.

[mf-tzo]

http://www.coindesk.com/the-cftcs-not-so-hidden-message-traders-beware/

Can we have some lawyers involved in cryptos advise about this and how this affects bitshares and more specifically with the referrals?

Specifically I would like to know:
if I advise people to register in bitshares under my name so I can earn the referral fees will I be breaking the law?
Do I need to have a disclaimer?
Do I need a licence for doing this?
If we speak about the price of a crypto are we breaking the laws now because people can see this as an advice?