Author Topic: Fee Adjustments  (Read 5508 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2015, 09:51:32 pm »
I don't think Liondani means the LTM membership fee is halved but rather the transfer fees are lower on that day so that they match what LTM members pay for transfers.

EXACTLY!

That would be interesting.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2015, 09:58:22 pm »
By setting the price low you devalue the service we offer.   Raising the price means we know what we offer provides value.

We are setting the price low one particular day per week (maybe our worst/low volume day) so we attract new members... The members that register because they was attracted by our "one day offer" would never make profit for us...
Imagine it like a pizzeria that gives every Tuesday 3 pizzas of the prize of one OR every Tuesday it offers "eat as you can for just $10!"

So 1.we attract new members and 2.we create traffic on a dead trading day & 3.Some become lifetime members since they are now convinced it has value.... :)

PS that would be an opportunity also for micro-trading from basic accounts from the "poor" people... Good marketing!


edit:
I just now realized you thought I was proposing to lower the lifetime fee also that  day (absolutely NOT!) :) 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 10:05:47 pm by liondani »

Offline GChicken

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 231
    • View Profile
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2015, 11:59:55 pm »
Looks like the price of the LTM is based on the fees payable, I was just lucky i suppose ;oblivious to this post i just purchased a LTM last night at the discounted rate (hour or two before this post), doesn't happen often but i'm glad to be at the right place and the right time for once :)

LTM price at the moment is 20,000BTS, BM also alluded to this fact in the OP

@Bytemaster - i would like to use my LTM to refer new user to Bitshares 2.0 any word on the referral system? is it planned that the following link would work to add my LTM account to  the 'Lifetime Referrer' field for new user accounts i refer?
https://bitshares.openledger.info/?r=btsxking#/create-account

Offline Moon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2015, 12:34:48 am »
very nice job man   +5%

Offline bitacer

Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2015, 12:39:39 am »
The only fee I would like to see lowered is transfer fees , sending value should not cost that much . Initial adopters will be the ones who will be using  BitShares mainly for basic banking . Lets first be inviting . A simple transfer just simply can not and must not cost 40 unit of that cryptocurrency.

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
    • View Profile
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2015, 01:09:08 am »
I'm happy to see this fee stability. Thank you.

Offline BTSdac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1219
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: K1
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2015, 02:11:06 am »
I basically do not oppose pay fee to Tx, not only protect network ,  but more important system should been a healthy that can gain enough money to supply high level service .
but we would consider how high fee can get more .
There is a relationship between fee and number of Tx

Vertical axis is number of Tx , and the horizontal axis is fee , so the area is the how many total fee (include referral program income ) system gain.
the left drawing show , charge high fee ,but a small number of Tx, so the income of system is small
the middle drawing show charge low fee , there a big number of Tx , but the income is also small
the right drawing show charge fit fee ,and the number of TX is a little lower than system capacity ( bts design is 100,000TPS ) , system get Max income

what position we are , I think is left drawing .

« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 02:13:30 am by BTSdac »
github.com :pureland
BTS2.0 API :ws://139.196.37.179:8091
BTS2.0 API 数据源ws://139.196.37.179:8091

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1895
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2015, 02:15:50 am »
I basically do not oppose pay fee to Tx, not only protect network ,  but more important system should been a healthy that can gain enough money to supply high level service .
but we would consider how high fee can get more .
There is a relationship between fee and number of Tx

Vertical axis is number of Tx , and the horizontal axis is fee , so the area is the how many total fee (include referral program income ) system gain.
the left drawing show , charge high fee ,but a small number of Tx, so the income of system is small
the middle drawing show charge low fee , there a big number of Tx , but the income is also small
the right drawing show charge fit fee ,and the number of TX is a little lower than system capacity ( bts design is 100,000TPS ) , system get Max income

what position we are , I think is left drawing .

agree, whether the reduction in BTS supply really worth being happy should be considered more deeply with the reduction of usages.

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1895
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2015, 02:47:38 am »
There is also the concept of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

By setting the price low you devalue the service we offer.   Raising the price means we know what we offer provides value.

To state it another way, I am sure Apple could increase market share and user adoption by lowering their prices which have industry leading margins built in.   But by doing so they would be undermining their profitability and their share price would suffer.

I think that to gain investors we must show profitability and lowering fees will not allow us to show that.

do not agree.

to compare BTS(actually here it refers Bitshares system) with luxury goods is not reasonable.

luxury goods is specfic, only the richest people can pay for them, and they buy these goods for showing their rich and taste, so really sometimes the more expensive, the more they like.
but how about BTS? do you also define BTS as luxury goods? if yes I think 90% of current users should leave.

BTS is also different with iPhone.

the margin cost to provide 1 transaction is low, however the margin cost to produce 1 iPhone is high.
one may only need one iPhone, but will pay for coming transactions every day.

Alipay are free for transfer, Paypal charge fee for transfer, Can we then say Paypal provide more valuable service than Alipay?

Offline sudo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2255
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: ags
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2015, 02:54:47 am »
how many unique users  bitshares really have?

Offline tonyk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3308
    • View Profile
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2015, 03:09:37 am »
how many unique users  bitshares really have?

about 3000...of them the one that matter are... 97

PS
and the number 97 of course includes fuzzy boy with his 14 month old back up wallet, with a metric ton of bitUSD in it, that he could never open in the last 9mos.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 03:20:07 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Musewhale

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2881
  • 丑,实在是太丑了 !
    • View Profile
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2015, 05:40:34 am »
It is important to make a profit.
+1 +1 +1
MUSE witness:mygoodfriend     vote for me

Offline Musewhale

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2881
  • 丑,实在是太丑了 !
    • View Profile
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2015, 05:54:06 am »
if you lower fees in general there's no need for lifetime accounts. no lifetime accounts no marketers. no marketers, have fun with your low fees, you'll never see more users.

Or the administrator of the experience, standing tall, may be Harvard graduate
+1 +1 +1
MUSE witness:mygoodfriend     vote for me

Offline botfund

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: botfund
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2015, 06:08:59 am »
It is important to make a profit.
+1 +1 +1

Yes, it's a profit. But I think it's mostly for WORKERs, not for the network. See https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19305.0.html

Online alt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2821
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: baozi
Re: Fee Adjustments
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2015, 06:11:39 am »
The problem is not lack of recommendations, the problem is lack of users.
lack of users is because of we never have a usable wallet.
now, seems we'll have a usable wallet, but you change the fees to such a high.

I doubt who will use such a High-End service.
I have followed many users who register by openledger, can't find even 1 transaction.

for the guys who wish higher transfer fee, I want ask you, how many transfer fees you will contribute?