Now is a good time to tell people about BTS.

[luckybit]

is it realy good time to tell ppl abut BTS?
yeah will tell ppl that bts could make 1 m transactions but has lost its value significantly.
please just show me a perfectly working product that l could be convinced to tell ppl about bts?
by the way l have convinced two friends of mine they have lost a lot with buying bts.
Regards

It's pretty obvious, but it bears repeating: No one has lost anything until they've sold at a value less that what they purchased for, so if that's the case, then yes, they've perhaps lost a lot.  Until then, you're sitting on a basket of goods with unknown potential.

I told a number of friends to invest when BitShares was around $.02

They're all still holding, and haven't lost a thing.  If I were them I'd buy more at this price and lower my price per share average, but I understand if that's too rich for most folks blood... we are on the bleeding edge after all.

It ain't over till the smart-chain spins!

People tend to say stuff during moments of despair, but then when Bytemaster or someone else announces a sharedrop on BTS then the BTS price bounces back. We've seen it happen before and because BTS is a sharedrop target it has unknown value but it's certainly a lot higher than this in my opinion.

Anyone who was willing to pay 2 cents or 1 cent for BTS would be making a mistake to sell at these prices.

[lovejoy]

is it realy good time to tell ppl abut BTS?
yeah will tell ppl that bts could make 1 m transactions but has lost its value significantly.
please just show me a perfectly working product that l could be convinced to tell ppl about bts?
by the way l have convinced two friends of mine they have lost a lot with buying bts.
Regards

It's pretty obvious, but it bears repeating: No one has lost anything until they've sold at a value less that what they purchased for, so if that's the case, then yes, they've perhaps lost a lot.  Until then, you're sitting on a basket of goods with unknown potential.

I told a number of friends to invest when BitShares was around $.02

They're all still holding, and haven't lost a thing.  If I were them I'd buy more at this price and lower my price per share average, but I understand if that's too rich for most folks blood... we are on the bleeding edge after all.

It ain't over till the smart-chain spins!

[luckybit]

From the look at the price it's at the cheapest price it's ever been, even cheaper than it was at the Protoshares stage. Anyone buying now would be buying in at the early adopter prices.

And eventually the price is going to go way up again, just as it did with Bitcoin, Litecoin and any of the others. As long as the developers continue to add utility, improve UX, improve the UI, these low prices will not be sustainable.

At the same time Ethers are cheap also, but at $1 people might not get as much ROI as they could get in BTS. This makes BTS as underpriced as it is, a very good buy at this time. At the same time if anyone can earn it, it would be very wise to hold onto it.

I did some math, and Ethereum could someday be $50 or $100 each if the market cap gets high enough and it probably will. Bitshares on the other hand could someday reach 50cents to $1 each, with a reasonably high market cap. This would mean you could acquire potentially $200,000 worth of Bitshares for the price of 1 Bitcoin?

You would think every Bitcoin holder who has more than a few Bitcoins would put at least 1 BTC into Bitshares, but it is likely the Bitcoin distribution is extremely centralized, and this would explain why we don't see that. On the other hand with a fiat onramp you might not need BTC to acquire BTS and if people are willing to earn BTS you also don't need BTC to acquire BTS.

The rise of Ethereum, SAFE Network, NXT and others will also have interesting implications for BTS. Altcoin holders might be more likely to diversify, and individuals who feel that Bitcoin is too expensive might be more likely to diversify as they have in the past.

A prediction I'll make is that December-Janurary will be the best months to acquire large stakes in BTS. Save your money for those months.

is it realy good time to tell ppl abut BTS?
yeah will tell ppl that bts could make 1 m transactions but has lost its value significantly.
please just show me a perfectly working product that l could be convinced to tell ppl about bts?
by the way l have convinced two friends of mine they have lost a lot with buying bts.
Regards

You don't know how investing works. You're supposed to tell your friends to buy a stock when the price is low, when it's under it's true value. The way it works is you buy low and sell high, it's not an emotion based skill, your feelings and intuitions are almost always going to be wrong, rely on a spreadsheet.

The utility of Bitshares is increasing, the price of Bitshares is decreasing and is now below what it was prior to launch, so anyone getting in now will probably in at some of the the cheapest possible prices and the greatest potential to profit over a long period of time. It's no different than telling people to buy Bitcoin right after the crash to $3 when everyone was saying Bitcoin was dead.

Now you're saying Bitshares is dead and that is the time when people should be telling their friends to buy it. Buy when people are in despair, and sell when people are in bubble thinking or when you think Bitshares is at a reasonable value in terms of market cap.

The 8 million market cap is low and unreasonable for what Bitshares will offer in terms of utility. If you look at even the average chat startup a 200 million to 2 billion market cap is not unreasonable at all. This means for what Bitshares will be able to offer the current value is just extremely good.

But that is just my opinion, and you can sell all your BTS if you've lost faith. I encourage you to sell all your BTS for what you think it's worth so that someone with faith can hold them.

I believe it could take years before things turn around, and that is okay because Bitshares as a community and it's codebase shouldn't go away just as Bitcoin shouldn't. If Bitcoin catches on and goes mainstream then Bitshares will easily be in the billions of market cap.

Even another crypto bubble could put Bitshares up and you'll have sold yours during the recession.

[neo1344]

From the look at the price it's at the cheapest price it's ever been, even cheaper than it was at the Protoshares stage. Anyone buying now would be buying in at the early adopter prices.

And eventually the price is going to go way up again, just as it did with Bitcoin, Litecoin and any of the others. As long as the developers continue to add utility, improve UX, improve the UI, these low prices will not be sustainable.

At the same time Ethers are cheap also, but at $1 people might not get as much ROI as they could get in BTS. This makes BTS as underpriced as it is, a very good buy at this time. At the same time if anyone can earn it, it would be very wise to hold onto it.

I did some math, and Ethereum could someday be $50 or $100 each if the market cap gets high enough and it probably will. Bitshares on the other hand could someday reach 50cents to $1 each, with a reasonably high market cap. This would mean you could acquire potentially $200,000 worth of Bitshares for the price of 1 Bitcoin?

You would think every Bitcoin holder who has more than a few Bitcoins would put at least 1 BTC into Bitshares, but it is likely the Bitcoin distribution is extremely centralized, and this would explain why we don't see that. On the other hand with a fiat onramp you might not need BTC to acquire BTS and if people are willing to earn BTS you also don't need BTC to acquire BTS.

The rise of Ethereum, SAFE Network, NXT and others will also have interesting implications for BTS. Altcoin holders might be more likely to diversify, and individuals who feel that Bitcoin is too expensive might be more likely to diversify as they have in the past.

A prediction I'll make is that December-Janurary will be the best months to acquire large stakes in BTS. Save your money for those months.

is it realy good time to tell ppl abut BTS?
yeah will tell ppl that bts could make 1 m transactions but has lost its value significantly.
please just show me a perfectly working product that l could be convinced to tell ppl about bts?
by the way l have convinced two friends of mine they have lost a lot with buying bts.
Regards

[Empirical1.2]

But the smart investors are buying right now.  As for BTS, at it's peak it was under $100 million, but even Litecoin was higher than $100 million, even Dogecoin was $77 million, and they offered really no technological innovation, and very limited utility.

Don't confuse BTSX with BTS. BTSX was a VERY different model.  BTSX had a peak of over $100 million and nearly ฿ 0.0001.

While BTS referenced it's initial valuation from BTSX, it has been in decline since it was conceived & created.
BTS did rise more than 50% to high of $20 million with announcement of 2.0 in May though.

If you make a graph for BTSX up until 2014/10/04 and one for BTS after, you'll really see the difference esp. vs. BTC

That is because of dilution. The decline was predictable because the dilution occurred during an overall crypto recession. All altcoins have been in decline around this same time, so it's not like Bitshares is somehow the only altcoin in decline.

Right now Bitcoin and every similar project is at a lower price than it was in the time when BTSX launched. Bitcoin and many projects however kept pushing forward, innovation has not stopped, the work has not stopped, and that is why there is long term confidence. As long as Bitshares developers and businesses don't stop, then eventually when interest picks up again the new people will discover the value of the Bitshares platform.

Please stop making excuses and blaming Bitcoin or the crypto-recession.

Both BTC & LTC are actually at a higher price than when BTS was formed (05/11/2014) with little blockchain development.

DASH has increased in value by 50% since BTS was formed. (05/11/2014)

DOGE, NMC & PPC  are down 50% with little to no blockchain development since then and NXT is down 65%.

BTS is down over 75% since BTS was created. (More if you count when the market realised BTSX was changing & that it had been consistently climbing in value vs. BTC & LTC even during the recession until the supply rules were threatened.)

So the crypto-currency competitors have made gains vs. BTS in the last year, despite nearly all having higher (wasteful) dilution and little/no development or marketing.

So I think my argument that the model you choose & why, crypto-currency vs. crypto-company carries some weight.

As I said though, they're hopefully on the cusp of creating a new use case for crypto with the decentralised exchange, it's just been a harder, costly, riskier and probably more personally draining road for those involved to get there. 

[luckybit]

But the smart investors are buying right now.  As for BTS, at it's peak it was under $100 million, but even Litecoin was higher than $100 million, even Dogecoin was $77 million, and they offered really no technological innovation, and very limited utility.

Don't confuse BTSX with BTS. BTSX was a VERY different model.  BTSX had a peak of over $100 million and nearly ฿ 0.0001.

While BTS referenced it's initial valuation from BTSX, it has been in decline since it was conceived & created.
BTS did rise more than 50% to high of $20 million with announcement of 2.0 in May though.

If you make a graph for BTSX up until 2014/10/04 and one for BTS after, you'll really see the difference esp. vs. BTC

That is because of dilution. The decline was predictable because the dilution occurred during an overall crypto recession. All altcoins have been in decline around this same time, so it's not like Bitshares is somehow the only altcoin in decline.

Dilution might have been a good idea but it had very bad timing. If the markets stayed like they were when BTSX launched then maybe dilution would have worked out better. As for the merger, I never was really feeling the merger but with dilution I could at least understand why it was necessary even if the timing of it wasn't right.

At the end of the day though you can't blame dilution, you can't blame the bad economy, you just have to keep building, keep working, keep innovating, whether it's a recession or not. If you want to build an industry then you can't simply give up when the prices are low and interest from the mainstream is low. You have to be willing to simply dedicate a certain amount of effort regardless.

Right now Bitcoin and every similar project is at a lower price than it was in the time when BTSX launched. Bitcoin and many projects however kept pushing forward, innovation has not stopped, the work has not stopped, and that is why there is long term confidence. As long as Bitshares developers and businesses don't stop, then eventually when interest picks up again the new people will discover the value of the Bitshares platform.

Of course there will be competition but the niche of Bitshares is pretty much exclusive. None of the competition is designed to do what Bitshares does. Ethereum is general purposed, Turing complete (and insecure because of it), and will never have the ability to scale in my opinion under the current design. Bitcoin also can't scale and doesn't even function well as a currency. NXT is basically on a similar level technologically as BTSX, so it's not going to be able to compete due to lack of some basic features BTS 2.0 users take for granted like permissions.

SAFE Network on the other hand is an entirely different niche, is totally anonymous, and highly political. It's not going to even try to compete with Bitshares. Storj is interesting but as far as I can see the development isn't sustainable.

Despite all of this I don't see any of these projects going away. The people associated with them are too passionate, the developers involved genuinely want to change the world and aren't expecting to get rich quick, and that is often what it takes to do big things. If they get rich then they get rich, but it's really about solving problems.

[Empirical1.2]

But the smart investors are buying right now.  As for BTS, at it's peak it was under $100 million, but even Litecoin was higher than $100 million, even Dogecoin was $77 million, and they offered really no technological innovation, and very limited utility.

Don't confuse BTSX with BTS. BTSX was a VERY different model.  BTSX had a peak of over $100 million and nearly ฿ 0.0001.

While BTS referenced it's initial valuation from BTSX, it has been in decline since it was conceived & created.
BTS did rise more than 50% to high of $20 million with announcement of 2.0 in May though.

If you make a graph for BTSX up until 2014/10/04 and one for BTS after, you'll really see the difference esp. vs. BTC

For me, this is one of the most confusing and difficult to grasp part of Bitshares (BTSX/BTS)... what is it? who defines that "what"?  and how many tokens exist?

it seems that the number of tokens in the Bitshares system can be arbitrarily changed by ONE entity... and it does... or at least it did in the past

When I talk to people about Bitcoin, I always say: "There are 21million of them" that is something that will NEVER change!!!  I think I am right about that... of course, it could change ... but when that happens then it will most certainly not be called "bitcoin".. it will be called "new bitcoin" or "bitcoin 2.0" ...like when Coke changed to "new coke"

So, the point being... from my point of view... this very very important (non)variable of Bitshares has been blemished/broken... and makes it look really bad to the outside world.

I'm here because I like all the ideas that are pouring into the project, and I also see all the potential within a technology (if it works) that is designed as this is!

--- I hope you see I am not attacking.. I am CONGRATULATING EVERYONE here who is brave and steadfast supporting things here ---

btw... I am BUYING A LOT OF BTS!!! heheheehehehe... I will NEVER dump them! ...  I hope to "spend" them in a PREDICTION market that is better than Hive Mind... or maybe even Augur (though I like Augur's project so far... and have bought quite a few REPs

When I talk to people about Bitcoin, I always say: "There are 21million of them" that is something that will NEVER change!!!  I think I am right about that... of course, it could change ...

Yes that's the key selling point/base of the crypto-currency proposition.

The pre-defined and mathematical/algorithmic nature of token creation & distirbution, as well as the difficulty in changing via consensus, means very little trust is required in the Bitcoin foundation/developers/early adopters/miners in terms of supply. Which is a large part of what both sound money and decentralisation is all about - reducing the amount of trust you have to place in others. (Though difficulty reaching consensus also makes non supply issues like blockchain improvements harder & conversely reduces long term trust.) 

BTSX tapped into that & was on it's way to passing Litecoin (which was weighed down by 30% inflation) and after that Bitcoin and then with the help of BitAssets, the world 

A crypto-company like BTS (where supply can be changed & directed easily by shareholder consensus) has many advantages but the hard part is that you lose your crypto-currency associated potential and value, while having to fund development of an entirely new blockchain use case, like the decentralised exchange, to attract users. Which is a much harder, costly and risky proposition. They're getting there though...

[luckybit]

When someone talks about long term investment into crypto coin, this sounds really funny. What long term are you talking about? They all get out of dated in less then three years,

Bitshares isn't supposed to be static. The altcoins which die like that have developers who simply stop innovating. If the developers continue to improve and evolve the blockchain then the blockchain will remain relevant. Also the community around the blockchain brings value to it in the form of exclusive opportunities.

When another blockchain comes along which offers better technology and more innovation than Bitshares then I'll have to agree with you but right now no other blockchain does what Bitshares is specialized to do. Any other blockchain which tries would have to copy Bitshares and then build a new community and ecosystem. This gives Bitshares first mover advantage in the decentralized exchange/financial platform just as Bitcoin has first mover advantage in cryptocurrency and just as Ethereum has first mover advantage as world computer.

It doesn't mean there will not be competition because there probably will be a second place, so you might have SAFE Network and Tauchain compete with Ethereum, you might have NXT compete with Bitshares, you might have Litecoin compete with Bitcoin, but the point is each blockchain is so unique in what they offer, and has different communities and businesses around them, they all will likely make quite a bit of money if you look at the potential amount of money out there.

Hundreds of billions of dollars could be out there, and Bitcoin is currently at around a 5 billion dollar market cap. This would mean there is room for Bitshares to reach a billion dollar market cap, provided that the services and utility brings in enough people that it's worth it. Can other chains offer similar opportunities? Yes but they might not have the exact same opportunities at the same time, they might have different companies around them, and if you think about it like the video game industry then they might have different exclusives.

because better blockchains come out. It is more like a donation to developers than an investment. Sometimes, early adopters make profit only because much larger number of later adopters suffer loss.

But they don't come out overnight, and then no one would know about them which means they'd go through the same community building marketing process Bitshares had to go through, or Bitcoin. They might be better at marketing but still, as long as Bitshares has talented people supporting it, it doesn't really matter if some other blockchain is developed.

A group of banks could spend a few billion dollars building a blockchain which is far superior to anything out there and it wouldn't change the fact that a lot of people would choose to be loyal to Bitshares because of the unique business relationships they've developed and unique UIAs on Bitshares which the bank blockchain doesn't have.

As for BTS, it has a special purpose as collateral and fee token. As a user, you need only enough of them to satisfy these needs. For spinning up bitshares ecosystem, it does not matter which asset do you hold or trade. Centralized exchanges don't issue any special tokens at all, and yet some of them are quite successful.

Centralized exchanges do have exclusives though. The only reason people used MasterXchange or Holytransactions is to access the UIAs of Omni. People use Counterwallet to buy and trade in certain tokens or to deal with LTB. People use Bitstamp to deal exclusively with Bitcoin. And you have centralized exchanges which deal with a lot, but maybe the issuer of the UIA exclusively launches the crowdsale on one particular exchange and that forces everyone to use that.

So I would say the exclusive opportunities are what drives growth. It's not a matter of copying what is already offered elsewhere but to offer stuff which isn't offered anywhere else. Bitshares 2.0 lost a lot when they got rid of interest on Bitassets but didn't replace it with interest from a bond market or anything else, but Bitshares also gained a lot of new features  with 2.0 which people haven't yet figured out how to use.

[happybit]

But the smart investors are buying right now.  As for BTS, at it's peak it was under $100 million, but even Litecoin was higher than $100 million, even Dogecoin was $77 million, and they offered really no technological innovation, and very limited utility.

Don't confuse BTSX with BTS. BTSX was a VERY different model.  BTSX had a peak of over $100 million and nearly ฿ 0.0001.

While BTS referenced it's initial valuation from BTSX, it has been in decline since it was conceived & created.
BTS did rise more than 50% to high of $20 million with announcement of 2.0 in May though.

If you make a graph for BTSX up until 2014/10/04 and one for BTS after, you'll really see the difference esp. vs. BTC

For me, this is one of the most confusing and difficult to grasp part of Bitshares (BTSX/BTS)... what is it? who defines that "what"?  and how many tokens exist?

it seems that the number of tokens in the Bitshares system can be arbitrarily changed by ONE entity... and it does... or at least it did in the past

When I talk to people about Bitcoin, I always say: "There are 21million of them" that is something that will NEVER change!!!  I think I am right about that... of course, it could change ... but when that happens then it will most certainly not be called "bitcoin".. it will be called "new bitcoin" or "bitcoin 2.0" ...like when Coke changed to "new coke"

So, the point being... from my point of view... this very very important (non)variable of Bitshares has been blemished/broken... and makes it look really bad to the outside world.

I'm here because I like all the ideas that are pouring into the project, and I also see all the potential within a technology (if it works) that is designed as this is!

--- I hope you see I am not attacking.. I am CONGRATULATING EVERYONE here who is brave and steadfast supporting things here ---

btw... I am BUYING A LOT OF BTS!!! heheheehehehe... I will NEVER dump them! ...  I hope to "spend" them in a PREDICTION market that is better than Hive Mind... or maybe even Augur (though I like Augur's project so far... and have bought quite a few REPs

[Empirical1.2]

But the smart investors are buying right now.  As for BTS, at it's peak it was under $100 million, but even Litecoin was higher than $100 million, even Dogecoin was $77 million, and they offered really no technological innovation, and very limited utility.

Don't confuse BTSX with BTS. BTSX was a VERY different model.  BTSX had a peak of over $100 million and nearly ฿ 0.0001.

While BTS referenced it's initial valuation from BTSX, it has been in decline since it was conceived & created.
BTS did rise more than 50% to high of $20 million with announcement of 2.0 in May though.

If you make a graph for BTSX up until 2014/10/04 and one for BTS after, you'll really see the difference esp. vs. BTC

[Helikopterben]

I told people they were basically buying a bunch of lottery tickets with a better risk/reward profile than the actual lottery and they could possibly lose all their money.  Those who bought in are down on their investment but I told them what to expect up front so I dont feel bad about it.  Of course I personally think bitshares has great potential and is not even comparable to the lottery but I definitely didn't want to overpromise when it comes to giving people advise on what to do with their money.  Its a bit disingenuous to say anything more than that given the experimental nature of these projects.

[yvv]

When someone talks about long term investment into crypto coin, this sounds really funny. What long term are you talking about? They all get out of dated in less then three years, because better blockchains come out. It is more like a donation to developers than an investment. Sometimes, early adopters make profit only because much larger number of later adopters suffer loss.

As for BTS, it has a special purpose as collateral and fee token. As a user, you need only enough of them to satisfy these needs. For spinning up bitshares ecosystem, it does not matter which asset do you hold or trade. Centralized exchanges don't issue any special tokens at all, and yet some of them are quite successful.

[Fernandez]

Someone has a very heavy bag

[CLains]

This is as true as ever:

[Ben Mason]

What Luckybit and bitscape said......love it