Author Topic: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?  (Read 4036 times)

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Offline CLains

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2015, 05:18:08 pm »
The Chinese have very good points. I wish they would speak up more often. We in the West are probably more comfortable with arguments and dissonance and speaking harshly. But that's how public dispute resolution happens: among those who put themselves out there in the uncomfortable heat of argument.

But... what good points? That's what I didn't understand yet. So someone please, be so kind as to explain me what those point are and why they make sense.

Well the first point you agreed with. The second point about lower fees I agree with. I further agree that we should look squarely at facts instead of a priori opining about the best course of action, and then hoping for the best; hence why input on fees from different regions in the world is extremely important. If DACx is moving on to other things, and these are some of the reasons why, then it's obviously something to take seriously, because DACx was one of the more professional projects in this ecosystem. Unfortunately, I have heard very little from DACx on the forums, and I find this lack of communication unfortunate, as they are clearly very intelligent and articulate, and could probably shift any debate here if they engaged in the heat: https://youtu.be/CMbgER0BOqA?t=8m10s

Offline bitcrab

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2015, 04:46:31 pm »
I think there's a lack of communication between the Chinese and the rest and would like to address that.

What projects are you currently working on?
What about DACx? Any news? Never heard of them again.
What about cn-members? Same as above. I dont hear about them for quite a while.

Any worker proposals the chinese community is thinking about other than lower fees? Any features you're thinking to implement?

Lately I've been hearing a lot about the chinese community wanting lower fees. Well, what do you plan to do if the fees are lowered? What are your plans? How much liquidity will you provide? Do you have bots ready to do? How will you increase volume? I don't want to see fees lowered because of a whim with no justification. I would like to see a decent argument to convince me why we should lower fees. I want to understand why the chinese community wants to lower fees? I sure hope you already have projects and plans in case the fees are lowered.


Sorry for the post in english. I'm sure someone will understand it or translate it. I just would like to see us communicate more.

we had made BitCNY the most stable fiat pegged asset and built the smooth conversion channel with CNY. can you do the same for BitUSD?
I have planned to do international remittance via BitAssets, But I cannot find a partner that can do convenient BitUSD<->USD conversion, can you make this easy?
alt has run bots in bitshares 1.0, but now because of the high fee, he hesitated to upgrade the bots to 2.0.
DACx is in stop status, Jame Gong is now busy on some other projects which is not relevant to Bitshares. he is not very interested to do more for Bitshares, mainly because of the frequently unexpected sudden rule change.
in China seldom are really interested in the referral program.
I plan to add more assets through transwiser to BTS for trading in the future.

there are too many debate post about fees in the forum, I am tired to read each of them, now we have a working committee whose responsibility is to manage the blockchain parameters, including fees, if you really like high fee, you can try to get enough votes to join the committee to participate in the fee management, or vote one committee who have the same opinion with you.
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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2015, 03:44:18 pm »
The Chinese have very good points.


=b

Offline Akado

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2015, 01:20:57 pm »
The Chinese have very good points. I wish they would speak up more often. We in the West are probably more comfortable with arguments and dissonance and speaking harshly. But that's how public dispute resolution happens: among those who put themselves out there in the uncomfortable heat of argument.

But... what good points? That's what I didn't understand yet. So someone please, be so kind as to explain me what those point are and why they make sense.
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Offline CLains

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2015, 01:05:19 pm »
The Chinese have very good points. I wish they would speak up more often. We in the West are probably more comfortable with arguments and dissonance and speaking harshly. But that's how public dispute resolution happens: among those who put themselves out there in the uncomfortable heat of argument.

Offline Akado

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2015, 12:53:17 pm »
Don't hold on to your "logical thinking learned from BM" .
BM said low fee is good for the long term for BTS last year .
BM said fixed supply and burned fee are good for BTS last year .
Now BM said high fee is good for BTS in the long term .
Now BM said dilution is our competitive advantage .

What's gonna be next ? 
Business are not about wishful "logical thinking" . It's about the facts  .
"More dilution , more development , the price will rise" is a logical assumption by wishful thinking  , but it's a fallacy .Same as high referral fees for a speculative object to hope to sustain its price .

Just because you want one logical to happen , doesn't mean it will happen . And wishful thinking with fixed logical is the exact definition of SPECULATION .

These represent my own thoughts I've actually not liked some of Dan's decisions. The fact you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean I'm someone else's minion, that just adds to the lack of arguments.
I don't agree with low fees and fees on the first version were ridiculously low it didn't even make sense.
I've believe I've never contradicted myself about the dilution, unless you'd like to waist some time of your life and go search. Otherwise don't put words on my mouth. Stick to yours.

I've always tried to maintain neutral on that matter because I was never able to fully support either one decision or other. Fixed + burn supply is good like Bitcoin simply because that's what people are used to.
Dilution allows you to be more flexible than any other platform out there, there's a reason real companies use that. However it can also be dangerous if not used wisely.

What did I even say that is wishful thinking? I stated that people like to complain and lower fees, however they won't put their money where their mouth is. It's not proven lower fees will actually increase the transactions so much that will make it worth. I'm being rational here. If that was the case, I would be all for it, lower the fees the a fraction of a fraction of a cent, as long as the DAC is profitable.

Wishful thinking is lowering fees and not causing the volume to go up. You know why? Because if you ever raise the fees again, now then you're screwed.

As for your last quote:
"Just because you want one logical to happen , doesn't mean it will happen . And wishful thinking with fixed logical is the exact definition of SPECULATION ."

Congratulations +5% you just described whoever supports lower fees  +5% +5% +5% +5%

Am I really just full of wishful thinking? Let me see, half of what you wrote doesn't make sense as it's just a form of senseless attacks based on a clear lack of arguments. Then, it's already proven that lower fees don't have any impact as see in the first version (even though it was not that usable). You want facts and condemn wishful thinking when you're doing exactly the opposite. Please.

And learn to chill please. The fact you're pissed about Dan's decisions doesn't concern me the least, nor do you have to make it seem that I follow every decision blindly when I didn't. You want facts but don't get yours straight.

But now on a positive note, you don't need to be that worried about Dan's or other people's decisions because you can vote on worker proposals  :) So feel free to vote on whatever makes you happy - including lowering the fees (if that's the case) - while not having any plan to use them to the DACs advantage, because whoever supports it just does on a whim, doesn't bring anything new to the table and simply can't justify why they want to do with the exception of "brings more volume". Awesome. Then go and start to brainstorm on worker proposals that take advantage of lower fees. Ops, we've seen none. Seems like wishful thinking.

Edit: Now it seems this was just a long useless rant because I've only noticed what you just posted as a reply to my post, doesn't even make sense.
Tldr: you're saying people are just wishful thinking when they have plans on the future and can clearly take advantage of higher fees to build something and bring in value while making it seem the "facts" are on the side of who wants to lower fees, based on absolute no plans. I'll add this to my definition of irony.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 12:57:41 pm by Akado »
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Offline Samupaha

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2015, 07:17:33 am »
Chinese want to do some business based on a stable product, but various change make this impossible.

If the codebase or a feature is bad, isn't it better to replace it? We are doing here something that nobody else has ever done, so it should be perfectly expected that we have to be ready to hack pretty much everything. This isn't going to be finished anytime soon.

If we don't do any changes, the product will be crappy and nobody will use it. Not making changes will make sure that Bitshares will fail.

but please be aware of Chinese people still hold huge mumbers BTS,  even there're a lot of people left BTS I think still over 60% BTS are hold by Chinese.

Even if you can't come up with working business plans how to use Bitshares in China, you can still benefit from Bitshares just by holding BTS. Remember, Bitshares is a DAC and you are it's shareholders. You can become very rich just by owning the BTS and let the business to be build and used (mostly) in North America and Europe. Of course it would be best to get China along, but there is lots of room for growth in other places too.

it's obviously the trade is the most activities from Chinese community, trade means frequency transactions. that's why the transaction fee is low on BTC38 and yunbi.

so back to your questions, you want to know why Chinese support to lower the fee, this is why. because the trader most come from China.

If we lower the fees so low as possible, how much trading can we get from chinese? How you are going to get and keep more customers? I'm assuming that low fees alone are not going to get traders come and start using our blockchain. That's the reason behind referral system – acquiring new customers will require time, money and other resources so the blockchain has to pay for those who do the work. Otherwise it is left to be done as charity and that's a bad business model.

Offline btswildpig

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2015, 05:34:51 am »
what kind of plan do you expect?

Chinese want to do some business based on a stable product, but various change make this impossible. the bitcny gateway Transwiser was reopened recently, and the DACx may reopen but I don't think it's now. few personal business is still on the drawing board. so on the whole there's no much news.

but please be aware of Chinese people still hold huge mumbers BTS,  even there're a lot of people left BTS I think still over 60% BTS are hold by Chinese.

it's obviously the trade is the most activities from Chinese community, trade means frequency transactions. that's why the transaction fee is low on BTC38 and yunbi.

so back to your questions, you want to know why Chinese support to lower the fee, this is why. because the trader most come from China.

Well we've seen a few BTS projects outside of China, so I expect something from China like that as well, specially since you're so many. Of course we need volume and it's great that you contribute for it, however..

What you're saying is although you're 60% of BTS population and bring so much volume, you all hold BTS based on speculation and don't build infrastructure to add to it's value? Yet, demand lower fees so you can trade on speculation with no regard for whoever sees BTS as a long term investment, actually builds stuff for the ecosystem and adds value and utility? humph.. fair enough

This is supposed to be a symbiotic relationship but now sooner or later, one of the communities is turning into the stepping stone. We'll see how it goes.

And no you barely just answered my questions (and thank you for the effort). What happened to DACx then? You said they might reopen.. what happened for them to "close"?

Would also like the input from the mods here.

what kind of plan do you expect?

Chinese want to do some business based on a stable product, but various change make this impossible. the bitcny gateway Transwiser was reopened recently, and the DACx may reopen but I don't think it's now. few personal business is still on the drawing board. so on the whole there's no much news.

but please be aware of Chinese people still hold huge mumbers BTS,  even there're a lot of people left BTS I think still over 60% BTS are hold by Chinese.

it's obviously the trade is the most activities from Chinese community, trade means frequency transactions. that's why the transaction fee is low on BTC38 and yunbi.

so back to your questions, you want to know why Chinese support to lower the fee, this is why. because the trader most come from China.

Well we've seen a few BTS projects outside of China, so I expect something from China like that as well, specially since you're so many. Of course we need volume and it's great that you contribute for it, however..

What you're saying is although you're 60% of BTS population and bring so much volume, you all hold BTS based on speculation and don't build infrastructure to add to it's value? Yet, demand lower fees so you can trade on speculation with no regard for whoever sees BTS as a long term investment, actually builds stuff for the ecosystem and adds value and utility? humph.. fair enough

This is supposed to be a symbiotic relationship but now sooner or later, one of the communities is turning into the stepping stone. We'll see how it goes.

And no you barely just answered my questions (and thank you for the effort). What happened to DACx then? You said they might reopen.. what happened for them to "close"?

Would also like the input from the mods here.

Don't hold on to your "logical thinking learned from BM" .
BM said low fee is good for the long term for BTS last year .
BM said fixed supply and burned fee are good for BTS last year .
Now BM said high fee is good for BTS in the long term .
Now BM said dilution is our competitive advantage .

What's gonna be next ? 
Business are not about wishful "logical thinking" . It's about the facts  .
"More dilution , more development , the price will rise" is a logical assumption by wishful thinking  , but it's a fallacy .Same as high referral fees for a speculative object to hope to sustain its price .

Just because you want one logical to happen , doesn't mean it will happen . And wishful thinking with fixed logical is the exact definition of SPECULATION . 
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline btswildpig

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2015, 04:55:18 am »
cn-members is pretty much silent. Last Active: July 13, 2015, 11:53:26

do you guys even need them as mod?

Most of my work for BTS now is not kiss and tell or make a really small thing into some big thing , and my network connection with BitSharestalks are on and off , depend on the time frame. And I have to work extra jobs to break even the lost that I suffered this year .  So I haven't used that account for a while , at least for the time being .
So do what you like . Remove it , don't remove it , for all I care .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline wallace

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2015, 04:20:07 am »
what kind of plan do you expect?

Chinese want to do some business based on a stable product, but various change make this impossible. the bitcny gateway Transwiser was reopened recently, and the DACx may reopen but I don't think it's now. few personal business is still on the drawing board. so on the whole there's no much news.

but please be aware of Chinese people still hold huge mumbers BTS,  even there're a lot of people left BTS I think still over 60% BTS are hold by Chinese.

it's obviously the trade is the most activities from Chinese community, trade means frequency transactions. that's why the transaction fee is low on BTC38 and yunbi.

so back to your questions, you want to know why Chinese support to lower the fee, this is why. because the trader most come from China.

Well we've seen a few BTS projects outside of China, so I expect something from China like that as well, specially since you're so many. Of course we need volume and it's great that you contribute for it, however..

What you're saying is although you're 60% of BTS population and bring so much volume, you all hold BTS based on speculation and don't build infrastructure to add to it's value? Yet, demand lower fees so you can trade on speculation with no regard for whoever sees BTS as a long term investment, actually builds stuff for the ecosystem and adds value and utility? humph.. fair enough

This is supposed to be a symbiotic relationship but now sooner or later, one of the communities is turning into the stepping stone. We'll see how it goes.

And no you barely just answered my questions (and thank you for the effort). What happened to DACx then? You said they might reopen.. what happened for them to "close"?

Would also like the input from the mods here.

just remind you what I said is my own opinion, it didn't represent the chinese community, just like your words only express the opinion of yours.
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Offline Musewhale

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2015, 03:57:15 am »
cn-members is pretty much silent. Last Active: July 13, 2015, 11:53:26

do you guys even need them as mod?

BTS down down down down down down
cn-members has been starved to death. :'( :'( :'(
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Offline fav

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2015, 10:07:35 pm »
cn-members is pretty much silent. Last Active: July 13, 2015, 11:53:26

do you guys even need them as mod?

Offline Akado

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2015, 07:53:28 pm »
what kind of plan do you expect?

Chinese want to do some business based on a stable product, but various change make this impossible. the bitcny gateway Transwiser was reopened recently, and the DACx may reopen but I don't think it's now. few personal business is still on the drawing board. so on the whole there's no much news.

but please be aware of Chinese people still hold huge mumbers BTS,  even there're a lot of people left BTS I think still over 60% BTS are hold by Chinese.

it's obviously the trade is the most activities from Chinese community, trade means frequency transactions. that's why the transaction fee is low on BTC38 and yunbi.

so back to your questions, you want to know why Chinese support to lower the fee, this is why. because the trader most come from China.

Well we've seen a few BTS projects outside of China, so I expect something from China like that as well, specially since you're so many. Of course we need volume and it's great that you contribute for it, however..

What you're saying is although you're 60% of BTS population and bring so much volume, you all hold BTS based on speculation and don't build infrastructure to add to it's value? Yet, demand lower fees so you can trade on speculation with no regard for whoever sees BTS as a long term investment, actually builds stuff for the ecosystem and adds value and utility? humph.. fair enough

This is supposed to be a symbiotic relationship but now sooner or later, one of the communities is turning into the stepping stone. We'll see how it goes.

And no you barely just answered my questions (and thank you for the effort). What happened to DACx then? You said they might reopen.. what happened for them to "close"?

Would also like the input from the mods here.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 07:55:56 pm by Akado »
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Offline Musewhale

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2015, 04:46:40 pm »
We are trying to earn money to buy more BTS  +5% +5% +5%
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Offline wallace

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Re: What are the plans of the Chinese Community?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2015, 02:27:05 pm »
what kind of plan do you expect?

Chinese want to do some business based on a stable product, but various change make this impossible. the bitcny gateway Transwiser was reopened recently, and the DACx may reopen but I don't think it's now. few personal business is still on the drawing board. so on the whole there's no much news.

but please be aware of Chinese people still hold huge mumbers BTS,  even there're a lot of people left BTS I think still over 60% BTS are hold by Chinese.

it's obviously the trade is the most activities from Chinese community, trade means frequency transactions. that's why the transaction fee is low on BTC38 and yunbi.

so back to your questions, you want to know why Chinese support to lower the fee, this is why. because the trader most come from China.
give me money, I will do...