Author Topic: Banks going for Ethereum  (Read 2172 times)

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Offline fuzzy

Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2015, 03:29:24 pm »
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1256406.0

I understand banks dont even know BitShares exists, but they're preferring Ethereum over Ripple for example? For money transfers and banks use cases specifically, shouldnt it be something like

BitShares > Ripple > Ethereum or Ripple > BitShares > Ethereum?

We're way more into this kind of stuff than ethereum is. We have way more potential. We specialize in one thing while Ethereum is ok at everything else.

Do these people actually do decent research or only go for whatever they hear "should" be good enough? Or am I just completely wrong? Unless they want to develop other use cases for which Ethereum might be better at? I just didn't predict banks teaming up with Ethereum. I always thought that Ripple would be the one doing so becasue of all the connections they have and we would be the alternative and the "new" stuff for some other more bold banks while providing services for all exchanges.

Ethereum would just be used for... everything else

Ethereum took over Silicon Valley while Bitshares took over Virginia. Silicon Valley is more connected to the tech world so it's obvious why Ethereum is able to do certain things.

But I don't see why banks would choose Ethereum either. Ethereum has questionable security, is experimental, and I doubt banks are going to put all their hope into Ethereum at this time. Maybe in a few years if Ethereum matures it could have some support but it's not going to happen over night.

It took Ripple 5 years. Ripple I've known about since 2011, since before I got involved with Bitcoin, back when it was RipplePay. Ripple has been trying to build relationships with banks for a long time.

Ethereum in my opinion at this time, is not secure enough for banks. Because it is so new, and because it is Turing complete, it's alpha level, and at best banks are only testing it. I do understand why banks would not choose Bitcoin, Bitcoin isn't very flexible and the Bitcoin developers are extremely ideological while banks probably only care about having the best technology for shareholders.

I think the Turing completeness in the long term though will make Ethereum expensive to maintain and secure. It might be secure enough to work in the same way Bitcoin is considered secure enough or Bitshares is considered secure enough, but it will have additional risks brought on it due to it's openness and Turing completeness.

In time you will all come to see what I've been talking about all along.  I knew as soon as Ethereum seemed to get inordinate amounts of press and Vitalik was lifted up as a god-child...all while Ethereum was just an (untested) idea on a piece of paper.  All the ridiculous levels of press showed me something was up.  Some might think I'm crazy, but I assure you the current cabals are not planning on leaving this planet and dying.  They are going to go for the technology which they know can best move forward to their devoted ends.

Ethereum is the cabal's chosen tech.  Saw it coming from a hundred miles away.  The one thing that sucks most is that the cabal can very easily control the crypto market to ensure the chains survive that they want to survive.  Killing a chain is a bit tougher for them though, luckily. 8)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 03:31:17 pm by fuzzy »
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Offline Stan

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Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2015, 04:32:56 pm »
One of the things I told the German-speaking bankers who attended my 7-minute talk in Frankfurt on Thursday was this:

For most of human history banks have helped to reduce economic friction my making it easier to do business over long distances.  With the advent of the Internet, this role has reversed.  Business now takes place at the speed of light until it must pass through a bank, then it slows way down.  So the internet is now working on removing that source of friction one revolution at a time.  (Friction in the form of costs, security, regulation, and bundling of services all under one company brand.)

First Generation Architectures (BitcoinDOS) - simply bypass the banks to make payments between businesses.

Second Generation Architectures (BitSharesOS) - integrate a whole business onto a blockchain where its customers can perform a class of business actions at low friction without exiting to bank space.

Third Generation Architectures (GrapheneOS) Integrate multiple businesses onto the same blockchain for all the same reasons.  Now we continue to grow the "friction free zone" to entire industries and ecosystems.

Fourth Generation Architectures (heh heh) will extend this to The Internet of Everything making the entire Internet one big friction free zone.

So, if you are a Source of Friction, what should you do?  Move your products and services into a friction free zone where they are still very much needed.  Offer a bond or a bank issued asset or whatever -- as a reusable component.    If you unbundle them there, then all the world's entrepreneurs can come up with new ways to repackage and resell them rather than waiting for your own slow bureaucracy to implement them one by one.

That's the concept behind OpenLedger, is it not?  All members put their products and services into a friction free zone where they can be used as building blocks by everyone else.

Note, only in First or Second Generation Architectures can a Big Company contemplate offering their own private solution.  Third and Fourth Generation Architectures have already moved beyond the point where a private chain can prevail with the lowest friction solution. 

There was a startup in Frankfurt briefing their awesome new mining chips.
I felt bad for them.
I also felt bad for the folks that think you need an on-chain scripting language.
For pretty much the same reason.

:)




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Offline Akado

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Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2015, 04:38:07 pm »
Seems like a tip, did you do that on purpose Stan? If you did, could you confirm the the following:

So PlasmaOS is about also being able to implement private/permissionless atributes in BitShares? That's what I got from it. We're going into the permissionless businesses.. Or so I hope, that's where the big money is.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 05:31:37 pm by Akado »
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Offline monsterer

Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2015, 04:45:04 pm »
It's obvious why banks choose ethereum and ripple over bitshares, and we've covered this before:

*) Banks and institutions do not have expert knowledge in this area, so they call upon experts to do their analysis
*) The first thing experts will do, is look at the white papers and do their analyses based on the theory contained within

Look at the white papers for ethereum and ripple:

https://ripple.com/files/ripple_consensus_whitepaper.pdf
https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/White-Paper

Extremely detailed mathematical analysis  that experts can use to build their risk profiles. If you compare that to bitshares, you'll see a huge difference:

http://docs.bitshares.eu/_downloads/bitshares-financial-platform.pdf

This reads like a brochure and contains nothing about the security of DPOS or any concensus design implications.

To an expert, bitshares core is completely opaque, so they move on to the other chains which do have proper white papers.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 05:26:16 pm by monsterer »
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2015, 04:59:38 pm »
It's obvious why banks choose ethereum and ripple over bitshares, and we've covered this before:

*) Banks and institutions do not have expert knowledge in this area, so they call upon experts to do their analysis
*) The first experts will do, is look at the white papers and do their analyses based on the theory contained within

Look at the white papers for ethereum and ripple:

https://ripple.com/files/ripple_consensus_whitepaper.pdf
https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/White-Paper

Extremely detailed mathematical analysis  that experts can use to build their risk profiles. If you compare that to bitshares, you'll see a huge difference:

http://docs.bitshares.eu/_downloads/bitshares-financial-platform.pdf

This reads like a brochure and contains nothing about the security of DPOS or any concensus design implications.

To an expert, bitshares core is completely opaque, so they move on to the other chains which do have proper white papers.

great points...
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Offline bitacer

Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2015, 10:43:26 pm »
I see Bitshares as a bank in itself which is owned by its shareholders. Banks can go wherever they like, we should be going after their customers.

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Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2015, 11:47:34 pm »
Ññnñn

Offline xeroc

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Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2015, 11:38:37 am »
It's obvious why banks choose ethereum and ripple over bitshares, and we've covered this before:

*) Banks and institutions do not have expert knowledge in this area, so they call upon experts to do their analysis
*) The first experts will do, is look at the white papers and do their analyses based on the theory contained within

Look at the white papers for ethereum and ripple:

https://ripple.com/files/ripple_consensus_whitepaper.pdf
https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/White-Paper

Extremely detailed mathematical analysis  that experts can use to build their risk profiles. If you compare that to bitshares, you'll see a huge difference:

http://docs.bitshares.eu/_downloads/bitshares-financial-platform.pdf

This reads like a brochure and contains nothing about the security of DPOS or any concensus design implications.

To an expert, bitshares core is completely opaque, so they move on to the other chains which do have proper white papers.

great points...
You are comparing apples with pies ..

The 'one' whitepaper we have describes a financial platform ONTOP of a consensus scheme ..
Ethereum IS a consensus scheme with a coding language ..

BTW .. a dpos paper is planed as well .. we just don't have the time to write it since we want to deliver a product first .. (I know, people don't like that approach much)
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2015, 12:35:46 pm »
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1256406.0

I understand banks dont even know BitShares exists, but they're preferring Ethereum over Ripple for example? For money transfers and banks use cases specifically, shouldnt it be something like

BitShares > Ripple > Ethereum or Ripple > BitShares > Ethereum?

We're way more into this kind of stuff than ethereum is. We have way more potential. We specialize in one thing while Ethereum is ok at everything else.

Do these people actually do decent research or only go for whatever they hear "should" be good enough? Or am I just completely wrong? Unless they want to develop other use cases for which Ethereum might be better at? I just didn't predict banks teaming up with Ethereum. I always thought that Ripple would be the one doing so becasue of all the connections they have and we would be the alternative and the "new" stuff for some other more bold banks while providing services for all exchanges.

Ethereum would just be used for... everything else

Ethereum took over Silicon Valley while Bitshares took over Virginia. Silicon Valley is more connected to the tech world so it's obvious why Ethereum is able to do certain things.

But I don't see why banks would choose Ethereum either. Ethereum has questionable security, is experimental, and I doubt banks are going to put all their hope into Ethereum at this time. Maybe in a few years if Ethereum matures it could have some support but it's not going to happen over night.

It took Ripple 5 years. Ripple I've known about since 2011, since before I got involved with Bitcoin, back when it was RipplePay. Ripple has been trying to build relationships with banks for a long time.

Ethereum in my opinion at this time, is not secure enough for banks. Because it is so new, and because it is Turing complete, it's alpha level, and at best banks are only testing it. I do understand why banks would not choose Bitcoin, Bitcoin isn't very flexible and the Bitcoin developers are extremely ideological while banks probably only care about having the best technology for shareholders.

I think the Turing completeness in the long term though will make Ethereum expensive to maintain and secure. It might be secure enough to work in the same way Bitcoin is considered secure enough or Bitshares is considered secure enough, but it will have additional risks brought on it due to it's openness and Turing completeness.

In time you will all come to see what I've been talking about all along.  I knew as soon as Ethereum seemed to get inordinate amounts of press and Vitalik was lifted up as a god-child...all while Ethereum was just an (untested) idea on a piece of paper.  All the ridiculous levels of press showed me something was up.  Some might think I'm crazy, but I assure you the current cabals are not planning on leaving this planet and dying.  They are going to go for the technology which they know can best move forward to their devoted ends.

Ethereum is the cabal's chosen tech.  Saw it coming from a hundred miles away.  The one thing that sucks most is that the cabal can very easily control the crypto market to ensure the chains survive that they want to survive.  Killing a chain is a bit tougher for them though, luckily. 8)

I happened to know a way with which you can easily kill 3 chains . It doesn't even need the power of a cabal .
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Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2015, 05:46:52 pm »

I happened to know a way with which you can easily kill 3 chains . It doesn't even need the power of a cabal .
You mean the merger?
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Offline cube

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Re: Banks going for Ethereum
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2015, 07:04:24 am »

You are comparing apples with pies ..

The 'one' whitepaper we have describes a financial platform ONTOP of a consensus scheme ..
Ethereum IS a consensus scheme with a coding language ..

BTW .. a dpos paper is planed as well .. we just don't have the time to write it since we want to deliver a product first .. (I know, people don't like that approach much)

Having a DPOS paper would be a great start.  +5%

We want the outside world to know about bitshares, especially the advantage of bts's DPOS.  A DPOS paper is very much needed. I hope we can have it sooner than later.
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