Why we need the "request settlement" feature? please stop robbing the shorter!

[mindphlux]

I believe a working price floor for future merchants is really needed. In a situation like in bitCNY right now, there are not enough buyers for bitCNY at feed price, and bitCNY holders can still redeem at feed price with a 24 hour delay.

Without a price floor, we're going back to the 0.9.x bitAsset where everyone will be afraid to trade in that market. And it will not gain any traction because the peg is not working at all - if you cannot redeem your bitUSD for at least 1 USD, you're not going to use that token as a merchant, are you?

The shorter bears the risk of being margin called or being settled at a fair price. They're charging a premium over price feed for this risk. Some people claim this is a new feature, but it was in the cli wallet since the very beginning, and first discussed in https://bitshares.org/blog/2015/06/08/lessons-learned-from-bitshares-0.x/#bitassets-need-a-floor-not-a-perfect-peg. It's the shorter's responsibility to do due dilligence before investing any money. Claiming they did not know is not a valid argument IMHO.

[cube]

d) chinese exchanges without trading fees should be considered as well when providing a CNY price feed

btc38 also have trading fees, why not use

I believe that most of witnesses already included btc38 and yunbi in the price feeds.
The problem is that BTC price on CNY exchanges and USD exchanges are usually different, and a big volume of BTS is trading with BTC, so the price of BTS fed into the system is usually different to the price in CNY (on btc38 and yunbi).

No. Most of the witnesses are using xeroc's price feed script and this script derived volumed-based prices from btcaverage which in turn does not take into consideration of sites (eg OKCoin) which have zero trading fees.

[void]

Forced settlement is essential/fundamental to the system, I believe.

But we can tune the way it works to avoid shorters being disadvantaged by short-term price fluctuations:
- Use a (e.g.) 7 day moving average for the settlement price.
- Require the forced settler waits (e.g.) 7 days for settlement.
- Only allow 1/x of total BTS to be settled within a x period of days (not sure if this is already in place with x=30?)

Thoughts?

The system is in place to anchor the price, but it is made inconvenient enough to use no-one can use it to 'game' the system. 

[abit]

d) chinese exchanges without trading fees should be considered as well when providing a CNY price feed

btc38 also have trading fees, why not use

I believe that most of witnesses already included btc38 and yunbi in the price feeds.
The problem is that BTC price on CNY exchanges and USD exchanges are usually different, and a big volume of BTS is trading with BTC, so the price of BTS fed into the system is usually different to the price in CNY (on btc38 and yunbi).

[Moon]

d) chinese exchanges without trading fees should be considered as well when providing a CNY price feed

btc38 also have trading fees, why not use

[bitcrab]

We had a great discussion about this in the Telegram Chat group and came to the conclusion that

a) it's not robbery
b) the features has been available way longer already
c) language barrier makes it difficult for eastern members to comprehend the settlement idea
d) chinese exchanges without trading fees should be considered as well when providing a CNY price feed

this is not conclusion, it is just some peole's idea.

[xeroc]

We had a great discussion about this in the Telegram Chat group and came to the conclusion that

a) it's not robbery
b) the features has been available way longer already
c) language barrier makes it difficult for eastern members to comprehend the settlement idea
d) chinese exchanges without trading fees should be considered as well when providing a CNY price feed

[BTSdac]

I think not change anything

[sudo]

shorter is hurted in the long  past time

[freedom]

transwiser stopped BitCNY deposit service until for sure shorters can leave away from risk of being robbed.

我也停止在云币bitcny--cny的挂单，免得被莫名其妙搞死。

[merivercap]

That is not good news about Transwiser...

BTW I've been in favor of making the SQP equal the price feed, but that may actually make forced settlement more dangerous as people end up trading closer to the price feed.  Hence I would only advocate changing the SQP if forced settlement is removed. 

[bitcrab]

transwiser stopped BitCNY deposit service until for sure shorters can leave away from risk of being robbed.

[merivercap]

So the forced settlement feature uproar arrives... I think that's great that you guys are bringing it up and it would have probably happened sooner or later..... we need a good discussion about this and @alt & @bitcrab I agree with you guys ... I feel forced settlement is unnecessary.  At the very least let's just remove forced settlement for now and if there ever is a great demand for it we can add it back in.  (I'm skeptical this would ever be necessary)...  in any protocol design, it's better for us to start with the absolute core functions and error in the side of less rules/features whenever we are unsure if a feature will help or hurt the protocol.

Also any guarantees we want to provide to merchants can happen outside the protocol.  I'm sure gateways like CCEDK & BunkerDEX will offer $1 for 1 bitUSD liquidity for a long time.   Lastly one of the main interactions we at bitCash will have is with merchants so we'll know first hand what the best solutions to provide liquidity to merchants is because our business will depend on getting it right. 

Thanks.

[alt]

our rules protect bta holders too much, and hurt shorter too much.
it's time to change this, we need to protect shorter more, because they provide liquility.

[bitcrab]

in the new versionn 151125, a "SETTLE" button appear under the balance tab, as stated in the help, "Holders of any bitAsset can request a settlement at a fair price at any time. The settlement closes the borrow/short positions with lowest collateral ratio and sells the collateral for the settlement."

alt told me some more detail, "if anyone request settlement with asset A, one day later he can buy BTS from the asset shorter with the lowest collateral ratio with the latest settlement price. "

I am surprised to hear this, as a big BitCNY shorter, it seems this feature put me in danger.

Why we need this feature?

yes, maybe it can really raise the collateral ratio as a whole, because each shorter will run away from the lowest collateral ratio space. but does this really do good to the whole ecosystem, MPA supply will be lowered and more BTS will be unlocked for exchange.

shorters are always in danger, they always face the danger of margin call, this feature provide each user an opportunity to rob them.

and is this kind of rule reasonable? when one put his assets into collateral, anyone  can buy these collateral with a so called "fair price", not because the collateral ratio meet the maintenance ratio, but because the collateral ratio is the lowest!

and currently the settlement fed by witness is often not the fair price. say the feed price for BitCNY/BTS is 0.0205, but are there anyone can sell me BTS at 0.0205 CNY? if yes, please let me know.

as a shorter I have been hurt by the unexpected rule change at 16th,OCT, now I worry whether I will be hurt once more.

please stop robbing the shorter.