witness, please add 2% for settlement price

[svk]

Good point ..  @tonky
We could even ask for 7% since settlement was supposed to not happen anyway except for rare conditions ..

with x% we only need to make sure that the price feed is within x% tolerance to not have an exploitable settlement ...

I start to like this idea .. but we need to communicate this as a "fee" ..

You're being sarcastic here, both of you? Right? PLEASE?

Haha im pretty sure tony is, but I'm not sure everyone else caught on so it turned into a serious discussion!

[svk]

Good point ..  @tonky
We could even ask for 7% since settlement was supposed to not happen anyway except for rare conditions ..

with x% we only need to make sure that the price feed is within x% tolerance to not have an exploitable settlement ...

I start to like this idea .. but we need to communicate this as a "fee" ..

You're being sarcastic here, both of you? Right? PLEASE?

Haha im pretty sure tony is, but I'm not sure everyone else caught on so it turned into a serious discussion!

[pc]

Good point ..  @tonky
We could even ask for 7% since settlement was supposed to not happen anyway except for rare conditions ..

with x% we only need to make sure that the price feed is within x% tolerance to not have an exploitable settlement ...

I start to like this idea .. but we need to communicate this as a "fee" ..

You're being sarcastic here, both of you? Right? PLEASE?

[tonyk]

I'd suggest everyone review some of the discussion and analysis that took place 7 months ago on these topics. 

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16143.msg206715.html#msg206715

There's a good bit of valuable information there.

excellent post, thank you for re-finding it!

Yes, but I did not read that and my business plan evolves making money shorting. So change the rule as suggested (7% fee for voluntarily initiating  force settlement;  5% for involuntary initiating force settlement - 1% of all bitWhatever's circulation must be force settled daily ;the difference to 1% (if any) are random chosen asset holders that settle shorters and pay only 5% fee) ASAP.


I also think no one needs good and innovative products. Smart coins and such, every one is perfectly fine with a good old UIA. So each gateway will come with its own OPEN.bitUSD and offer it instead. They will make money on the transaction fee and the holders will  have non decreasing supply thingy. Plus each gateway will claim and prove their UIA are totally backed by 'decreasing-supply bitUSD'. Risk are small, what we have not even 20% of all BTC exchanges have been hacked (self hacked) etc right? We can even improve clout suggestion and give 350-400 mil BTS to those gateways so they can jump start this idea themselves (or buy or short bitUSD)...or buy a casino or build crypto AdSense or something else profitable and use the proceeds to buy into this plan.

[fav]

Changing feed Params is like a country revaluing its currency.  Bad idea.  Instant 2% loss to everyone who was playing by the rules.

Point taken ..

it also no longer represents a "fair" price ...

this. please don't do follow this proposal

[maqifrnswa]

I'd suggest everyone review some of the discussion and analysis that took place 7 months ago on these topics. 

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16143.msg206715.html#msg206715

There's a good bit of valuable information there.

excellent post, thank you for re-finding it!

[Xeldal]

I'd suggest everyone review some of the discussion and analysis that took place 7 months ago on these topics. 

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16143.msg206715.html#msg206715

There's a good bit of valuable information there.

[alt]

thanks,  you are correct!

I agree with the concept, but is the "correct" way of implementing this is to change
"force_settlement_offset_percent": 0
to
"force_settlement_offset_percent": 200

rather than messing with the feed? Adding a feed offset might complicate something else in the system, but there is a parameter that can be tweaked to do exactly what you want: charge settlers a premium for settling, and the premium goes to the shorter.

Code: [Select]

locked >>> get_object 1.3.120
get_object 1.3.120
[{
    "id": "1.3.120",
    "symbol": "EUR",
    "precision": 4,
    "issuer": "1.2.0",
    "options": {
      "max_supply": "1000000000000000",
      "market_fee_percent": 0,
      "max_market_fee": "1000000000000000",
      "issuer_permissions": 511,
      "flags": 128,
      "core_exchange_rate": {
        "base": {
          "amount": 12,
          "asset_id": "1.3.120"
        },
        "quote": {
          "amount": 37854,
          "asset_id": "1.3.0"
        }
      },
      "whitelist_authorities": [],
      "blacklist_authorities": [],
      "whitelist_markets": [],
      "blacklist_markets": [],
      "description": "1 euro",
      "extensions": []
    },
    "dynamic_asset_data_id": "2.3.120",
    "bitasset_data_id": "2.4.20"
  }
]


Code: [Select]

locked >>> get_object 2.4.20
...
"current_feed": {
      "settlement_price": {
        "base": {
          "amount": 6,
          "asset_id": "1.3.120"
        },
        "quote": {
          "amount": 19867,
          "asset_id": "1.3.0"
        }
      },
      "maintenance_collateral_ratio": 1750,
      "maximum_short_squeeze_ratio": 1100,
      "core_exchange_rate": {
        "base": {
          "amount": 12,
          "asset_id": "1.3.120"
        },
        "quote": {
          "amount": 37854,
          "asset_id": "1.3.0"
        }
      }
    },
    "current_feed_publication_time": "2015-12-02T04:35:06",
    "options": {
      "feed_lifetime_sec": 86400,
      "minimum_feeds": 7,
      "force_settlement_delay_sec": 86400,
      "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0,
      "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2000,
      "short_backing_asset": "1.3.0",
      "extensions": []
    },
    "force_settled_volume": 0,
    "is_prediction_market": false,
    "settlement_price": {
      "base": {
        "amount": 0,
        "asset_id": "1.3.0"
      },
      "quote": {
        "amount": 0,
        "asset_id": "1.3.0"
      }
    },
    "settlement_fund": 0
  }
]


[xeroc]

I agree with the concept, but is the "correct" way of implementing this is to change
"force_settlement_offset_percent": 0
to
"force_settlement_offset_percent": 200

rather than messing with the feed? Adding a feed offset might complicate something else in the system, but there is a parameter that can be tweaked to do exactly what you want: charge settlers a premium for settling, and the premium goes to the shorter.

didn't know that .. thanks for pointing it out

[xeroc]

Changing feed Params is like a country revaluing its currency.  Bad idea.  Instant 2% loss to everyone who was playing by the rules.

Point taken ..

it also no longer represents a "fair" price ...

[maqifrnswa]

I agree with the concept, but I want to ask if this is the correct technical and organizational way of handling this.

1) Should changing the behavior of the system be a committee decision, not a witness decision?

2) Is the "correct" technical way of implementing this is to change
"force_settlement_offset_percent": 0
to
"force_settlement_offset_percent": 200

rather than messing with the feed? Adding a feed offset might complicate something else in the system, but there is a parameter that can be tweaked to do exactly what you want: charge settlers a premium for settling, and the premium goes to the shorter.

Code: [Select]

locked >>> get_object 1.3.120
get_object 1.3.120
[{
    "id": "1.3.120",
    "symbol": "EUR",
    "precision": 4,
    "issuer": "1.2.0",
    "options": {
      "max_supply": "1000000000000000",
      "market_fee_percent": 0,
      "max_market_fee": "1000000000000000",
      "issuer_permissions": 511,
      "flags": 128,
      "core_exchange_rate": {
        "base": {
          "amount": 12,
          "asset_id": "1.3.120"
        },
        "quote": {
          "amount": 37854,
          "asset_id": "1.3.0"
        }
      },
      "whitelist_authorities": [],
      "blacklist_authorities": [],
      "whitelist_markets": [],
      "blacklist_markets": [],
      "description": "1 euro",
      "extensions": []
    },
    "dynamic_asset_data_id": "2.3.120",
    "bitasset_data_id": "2.4.20"
  }
]


Code: [Select]

locked >>> get_object 2.4.20
...
"current_feed": {
      "settlement_price": {
        "base": {
          "amount": 6,
          "asset_id": "1.3.120"
        },
        "quote": {
          "amount": 19867,
          "asset_id": "1.3.0"
        }
      },
      "maintenance_collateral_ratio": 1750,
      "maximum_short_squeeze_ratio": 1100,
      "core_exchange_rate": {
        "base": {
          "amount": 12,
          "asset_id": "1.3.120"
        },
        "quote": {
          "amount": 37854,
          "asset_id": "1.3.0"
        }
      }
    },
    "current_feed_publication_time": "2015-12-02T04:35:06",
    "options": {
      "feed_lifetime_sec": 86400,
      "minimum_feeds": 7,
      "force_settlement_delay_sec": 86400,
      "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0,
      "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2000,
      "short_backing_asset": "1.3.0",
      "extensions": []
    },
    "force_settled_volume": 0,
    "is_prediction_market": false,
    "settlement_price": {
      "base": {
        "amount": 0,
        "asset_id": "1.3.0"
      },
      "quote": {
        "amount": 0,
        "asset_id": "1.3.0"
      }
    },
    "settlement_fund": 0
  }
]

EDIT

Changing feed Params is like a country revaluing its currency.  Bad idea.  Instant 2% loss to everyone who was playing by the rules.

this is true, another reason why I think this should be done through committee as it has to weigh the pros and cons of the change

[sittingduck]

Changing feed Params is like a country revaluing its currency.  Bad idea.  Instant 2% loss to everyone who was playing by the rules.

[ebit]

 

[xeroc]

maybe we should make this a dependency on liquidity ..
if liquidity is bad .. premium is low say 1% ... if liquidity is high .. premium is also high, say 10%

[alt]

yes, I agree 7% even 10% also is OK, this function is the last way to guarentee the bitasset's value,
In fact, this should never be used if the market is health, because the gateway, the free market can provide the fair order for you.