Committee Town Halls (Poll)

[fuzzy]

I was referring to insults and allegations that the committee got in others posts, not by you personally.

You have a point about the non-responde tho, even if I am sure that it was caused by unlucky timing with all the things that was going on (discussions about settlement, long testing of the new script for the pricefeed, bm voting the committee out etc).

Just don't take it as unwillingness to communicate with the community or as something personal!

I am sure I can speak for all the committee when I say that we all want to improve management in the committee works! And you @fuzzy can surely help with that thank you for your efforts!

thanks for understanding

[Bhuz]

I was referring to insults and allegations that the committee got in others posts, not by you personally.

You have a point about the non-responde tho, even if I am sure that it was caused by unlucky timing with all the things that was going on (discussions about settlement, long testing of the new script for the pricefeed, bm voting the committee out etc).

Just don't take it as unwillingness to communicate with the community or as something personal!

I am sure I can speak for all the committee when I say that we all want to improve management in the committee works! And you @fuzzy can surely help with that thank you for your efforts!

[fuzzy]

You are not being attacked.  If you read what I have said throughout the entire thread that will become obvious @Bhuz.  I have actually advocated two potential paths forward...though i still personally think the one with other sharedropping graphene chains' leaders as unpaid committee members is better than the one that requires
volunteers. 

I have said many times that committee membership jobs are going to be stressful and doing it for no pay is a bad proposition for all. 

Trust me, I am not attacking...simply taking it to a level where I will get something more than silence as a response, while also trying to point out just why those in committee positions (if filled by volunteers) deserve pay.

[Bhuz]

Here is a nice little link that started me realizing something might be wrong: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20470.0.html

I am alerted and to be honest since I and apparently most the entire community were left out of these private discussions, it is pretty difficult to know the truth just from forum posts.  Committee members should be striving to be BETTER leaders than Bytemaster, so why so secretive in their meetings?

Again, what secretive in meetings are you talking about?

Please, read the link yourself provided. Read it. I am afraid You really missunderstood what xeroc is saying in that post.

I have (though I'm pretty sure you haven't check the link and are talking about the other link I could have provided).

What does it means "Here is a nice little link that started me realizing something might be wrong" ?!
To me, it seems that you are saying that in the post you linked, there are some information about the committee work that apparently make you to be worry and alarmed.

Well, that post by xeroc is nothing like that. Xeroc is not speaking about committee past works.
He is trying to explaing to the community that the committee could use the fees from MPAs to create other MPAs like GOLD.USD, a market pegget asset for gold backed by USD.

What's wrong with that?

Or maybe you are referring only to fav reply? The community already partecipated a lot in the discussions for past committee proposals, so there is nothing new about Fav pov.
And still, Fav has his personal view. That does not mean that all the community think like Fav, or that Fav has the right answer.
Fav is a big proxy of the community, and we always appreciated his input and we did listen to him, as well as we listen to the community expressing their view here on the forum.

I am not attacking you fuzzy, not at all. I want to be clear on this.
I think you can really help the committee to improve. We just started this, and a lot of things can be managed way better for sure.

I am just tired to spend days and days of my private time trying to help the community and putting all my effort in doing this job for the best interest of Bitshares only to see really really bad post.
Posts in which the committee was gratuitously insulted and/or accused to be shady and/or acting for personal agendas. This is very sad to me.

[btstip]

Hey fuzzy, here are the results of your tips...

• mindphlux: has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
• puppies: has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
• BunkerChain Labs: has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
• kenCode: has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
• Bhuz: has been credited 1 FISTBUMP

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Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19948.msg264267/topicseen.html#msg264267

Created by hybridd

[fuzzy]

#Sharebits "mindphlux" 1 FISTBUMP
#Sharebits "puppies" 1 FISTBUMP
#Sharebits "BunkerChain Labs" 1 FISTBUMP
#Sharebits "kenCode" 1 FISTBUMP
#Sharebits "Bhuz" 1 FISTBUMP

[mindphlux]

Fuzzy, I think you're overreacting. You have to remember we're all doing this unpaid, and this has been alot of unpaid hours in the past weeks

We've used telegram since the very start and have had there VERY heated discussions regarding various proposals (esp. the last one), and it's sometimes very hard to work with certain committee members. We also have fav and jakub in the channel since they hold alot of stake and we value their opinion very much. I can invite you into that channel if you like.
Also we've (I) been working on committee guidelines to streamline how we deal with proposals and this is very hard job to do since not everyone thinks there should be rules that are supposed to be followed. I'll publish the draft when I have enough committee support.

That said, I'll gladly step down if someone else wants to take my place.

this is not overreacting i assure you.  as for doing it unpaid, trust me i can feel you on that one.  this is the reason i advocate that if we go the route of community volunteers (as opposed to leadership of consensus-honoring graphene-based chains), that you DESERVE payment for it.  Also i am not calling i to wuestion motives, but i am calling into question why it has taken this for you all to respond to my multiple attempts to show you (both in the forums and even in a pm) that the community wants more openness. 

The way outsiders look in on is will define what the world thinks a out bitshares.  this is no small thing and i honestly think it is a disservice to you as a volunteer to be expected to do it when we have other bitshares based chains that could be represented and would bring with them their own resources.

i greatly appeciate the attempts but at this juncture i am floored that we do not have a means of bringing the shareholders i  to act as a check and balance to the committee's power.

The thing is, there is no committee. They're just a loose bunch of elected people who try to do their best to serve the community. There is only a little bit of organisation and as long there is not a code of conduct (or guidelines), this "commitee" can also not act as a committee but instead they will act as individual people - I've been trying to get some binding guidelines but it has been very difficult task to get everyone to agree on a single document.. in the past, the committee has acted as a real committee in some cases in cases of emergency, but that's not happening too often.

IMHO that needs to be solved first before there can be official communication from the committee.

Feel free to help.

[puppies]

Fuzzy, I think you're overreacting. You have to remember we're all doing this unpaid, and this has been alot of unpaid hours in the past weeks

We've used telegram since the very start and have had there VERY heated discussions regarding various proposals (esp. the last one), and it's sometimes very hard to work with certain committee members. We also have fav and jakub in the channel since they hold alot of stake and we value their opinion very much. I can invite you into that channel if you like.
Also we've (I) been working on committee guidelines to streamline how we deal with proposals and this is very hard job to do since not everyone thinks there should be rules that are supposed to be followed. I'll publish the draft when I have enough committee support.

That said, I'll gladly step down if someone else wants to take my place.

I'm one of the ones slowing mindphlux down.  I think mindphluxs rules are really great best practices, and I intend to follow them, but as an American I'm wary of signing things that even smell anything remotely close to something the ridiculous courts in this country could construe to be binding.  I'm probably over reacting.  Anyways my point is that we are not a cabal.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

I can join puppies on that call if the scheduling works for me.

[fuzzy]

just imagine how the world would see us if at the head of bitshares committee positions, acting as a check to bm and one another, were to converge as representatives of their own BitShares based DACs.  just imagine how that TRUE "SUPERNET" would be seen by outsiders. 

Ethereum would be scared.

[kenCode]

IMO the committee should be made up of people (one or more of the below) who have lost everything before, have been sued before or attacked by a government in some way, are at least 30 years of age, have built at least 2 successful companies in the past, have at least 1 or 2 friends that they hang out with regularly, refuse backdoor deals and discussions, have at least 1 year of full-time coding experience, are not a forum admin or moderator, have an actual avatar of their face and not some juvenile cartoon, retain a profile on bitrated or similar public ratings site, enjoy books like rich dad poor dad, see brownie.pts and being in his "good favor" as a very disturbing token, own at least 1000 Obits, and would quite honestly rather NOT be on yet another "Committee".
 
Fuzzy, your service should be a regular, paid Worker. Say 6000bts per day on a 6 month renewable contract. You do need to be a bit more assertive as a moderator tho IMO and keep the mumbles on topic and moving along.
 
I have NO interest in political positions either so I don't blame you guys for wanting more mumbles, but PAY FUZZY for his work. Dan is just another code contributor and team leader now so cut him some slack.
 
I have zero patience, you know that. Have u ever watched The Roast? Fuzzy, PLEASE get a Worker voted in, the Beyond Bitcoin crew certainly has my vote. I wish all the kids scattered about this forum would put down their fkin joysticks and get to work. Bitshares is not a get rick quick scheme. Do themselves and us a favor and start watching episodes of The Apprentice or something. Just GET MOTIVATED and figure out your own little way to bring people to Bitshares, or be poor forever.
 
Ok, let the personal attacks begin.

[fuzzy]

Fuzzy, I think you're overreacting. You have to remember we're all doing this unpaid, and this has been alot of unpaid hours in the past weeks

We've used telegram since the very start and have had there VERY heated discussions regarding various proposals (esp. the last one), and it's sometimes very hard to work with certain committee members. We also have fav and jakub in the channel since they hold alot of stake and we value their opinion very much. I can invite you into that channel if you like.
Also we've (I) been working on committee guidelines to streamline how we deal with proposals and this is very hard job to do since not everyone thinks there should be rules that are supposed to be followed. I'll publish the draft when I have enough committee support.

That said, I'll gladly step down if someone else wants to take my place.

this is not overreacting i assure you.  as for doing it unpaid, trust me i can feel you on that one.  this is the reason i advocate that if we go the route of community volunteers (as opposed to leadership of consensus-honoring graphene-based chains), that you DESERVE payment for it.  Also i am not calling i to wuestion motives, but i am calling into question why it has taken this for you all to respond to my multiple attempts to show you (both in the forums and even in a pm) that the community wants more openness. 

The way outsiders look in on is will define what the world thinks a out bitshares.  this is no small thing and i honestly think it is a disservice to you as a volunteer to be expected to do it when we have other bitshares based chains that could be represented and would bring with them their own resources.

i greatly appeciate the attempts but at this juncture i am floored that we do not have a means of bringing the shareholders i  to act as a check and balance to the committee's power.

[mindphlux]

Fuzzy, I think you're overreacting. You have to remember we're all doing this unpaid, and this has been alot of unpaid hours in the past weeks

We've used telegram since the very start and have had there VERY heated discussions regarding various proposals (esp. the last one), and it's sometimes very hard to work with certain committee members. We also have fav and jakub in the channel since they hold alot of stake and we value their opinion very much. I can invite you into that channel if you like.
Also we've (I) been working on committee guidelines to streamline how we deal with proposals and this is very hard job to do since not everyone thinks there should be rules that are supposed to be followed. I'll publish the draft when I have enough committee support.

That said, I'll gladly step down if someone else wants to take my place.

[puppies]

I think we will have many chances to massively f this up.

My decisions are not made on telegram.  Telegram is just another tool for collecting relevant information.  As is this forum.  As is mumble.  If you feel that there is information that I need to make an effective decision please share it with me.  Send me a pm on telegram, send me a pm on this forum. 

I'll gladly listen to all viewpoints.  Decisions are not made based upon who speaks loudest, or who has the most time to post in the forum though.  Decisions are made based upon voting stake. 

I personally feel that mumble sessions are one of the least effective means of determining the will of voting stake.  I'll gladly hop on and answer any questions I can though.

[fuzzy]

I an not opposed to a mumble hangout but, I have been incredibly busy.  Anyone that feels my lack of communication with the community at large is an issue, is free to withdraw their vote. 

As long as I am a committee member, I will make the decisions that I feel are best for bitshares.  I feel like that is the job that I don't get paid for, and don't even really want. My disdain for politics should be widely known.

While the feedback from the small number of vocal users on this forum, or that would attend a mumble is incredibly useful in forming an opinion we all need to remember.  This forum does not speak for bitshares.  Mumble does not speak for bitshares.  Bytemaster does not speak for bitshares.  Bitshares speaks for itself.  Isn't that the whole point?  The votes we receive, or do not receive speak louder than anything else.  Once again, feel free to remove your vote if you disagree. 

With that said.  Fuzzy, I could make myself available to answer any questions in a mumble session Thursday or Friday.    Assuming that I haven't been voted out in the mean time.  Let me know what time, and I'll schedule around it.  I can only speak for myself though.  I'd like to stay away from hearsay regarding other committee members.

The forum is most of the community, Bytemaster is a person who has shown a pretty effective way of communicating his intentions with the community.  Mumble has been a solid tool for getting the message out about decisions while also enabling anyone in the community to join and ask questions in real time (a solid check on power). 

Does this mean there are not other ways?  No it doesn't, but I am showing you what the community who has responded thinks.  This is a poll that has 45 votes, which is a pretty decent sample size considering the size of our active community on these forums.  As for "bitshares speaking for itself", I guess that depends on who represents bitshares and who has the vote. 

Do we want outsiders seeing the openness of our past historical archiving of decisions seeing that transition into an opaque decision-making process that is not even an improvement upon the old way of accomplishing it?  I honestly don't care if I hold hangouts for this (to be honest I'm too busy with what I already have)...so it needs to be stated that i do not say this for any benefit to myself as I don't even control the monetization center of Beyond Bitcoin (the website).   

It was intentionally done this way because I understand the value of truly decentralizing the power structures.  This is also why I had the Sharebits.io/mumble guest list tool made in such a way that it will work for anyone running this stuff on any platform.   I am simply disappointed in the lack of communication with the community.  And P.S. you are right about this being a tough job (and largely thankless) which is why I strongly advocate we start paying committee members--but only if they are actively interacting with the community and keeping them in the loop.  Otherwise committee members have one hell of a reason to collude in a way that will destroy trust in bitshares----and we only get the chance to massively f this up once...