Plan for introducing Privacy (STEALTH) Mode feature asap

[Stan]

6.   The Initialization Package shall modify the blockchain to make the Privacy Mode feature available to users.
7. The Initialization Package shall make provision for the creation of generic Fee Based Assets (FBA) and set the fee for such

Could you elaborate on the "Initialization Package" and the statement above?

8.   A GUI shall be provided in the OpenLedger and Light wallets to allow ordinary users to easily use the Privacy Mode features.

If a GUI is to be developed for OpenLedger specifically, why wouldn't you ask
for fund from them as well? Either they take part in the funding, or you should
replace OpenLedger with "web wallet". In the end, OL is free to use the feature
implemented, but I don't see why they should be part of the contract between YOU
and CNX!

Cheers

@Stan

This wording is from Stan.  Perhaps he can give an elaboration of his intention.

Initialization Package is just whatever software implements the change and initializes the FBA parameters.

"Web wallet" would be more precise way of saying it.

[onceuponatime]

6.   The Initialization Package shall modify the blockchain to make the Privacy Mode feature available to users.
7. The Initialization Package shall make provision for the creation of generic Fee Based Assets (FBA) and set the fee for such

Could you elaborate on the "Initialization Package" and the statement above?

8.   A GUI shall be provided in the OpenLedger and Light wallets to allow ordinary users to easily use the Privacy Mode features.

If a GUI is to be developed for OpenLedger specifically, why wouldn't you ask
for fund from them as well? Either they take part in the funding, or you should
replace OpenLedger with "web wallet". In the end, OL is free to use the feature
implemented, but I don't see why they should be part of the contract between YOU
and CNX!

Cheers

@Stan

This wording is from Stan.  Perhaps he can give an elaboration of his intention.

[xeroc]

6.   The Initialization Package shall modify the blockchain to make the Privacy Mode feature available to users.
7. The Initialization Package shall make provision for the creation of generic Fee Based Assets (FBA) and set the fee for such

Could you elaborate on the "Initialization Package" and the statement above?

8.   A GUI shall be provided in the OpenLedger and Light wallets to allow ordinary users to easily use the Privacy Mode features.

If a GUI is to be developed for OpenLedger specifically, why wouldn't you ask
for fund from them as well? Either they take part in the funding, or you should
replace OpenLedger with "web wallet". In the end, OL is free to use the feature
implemented, but I don't see why they should be part of the contract between YOU
and CNX!

Cheers

[NewMine]

This is one of the great threads. Put it up along with the "merger proposal" thread.

The irony of this proposal and that thing called dpos.

what happened to the whole Stock market side of BTS? Overstock just got ok to issue shares on the BTC blockchain with Medici or whatever. I guess BTS will be a second mover in that department

That part of BTS is done already.

Anyone can issue a UIA backed by a share of Berkshire and open a market up and make money like Overstock is doing with their "trust us" version of blockchain based security sales. This is very old news man. 

google "user issued asset". and i will completely blow you. f'n mind


(but not knowing where you are currently in terms of base knowledge, you might need to google "google" first)

I know you've only been around a few months and you spend most of your time juggling your multiple accounts here, but there was this event that happened over a year ago that sent this submarine on an uncontrolled unrecoverable dive. Don't edit my quote, unless you like it being done to you.

[giant middle finger]

If you need to spin something to fit your narrative, call Stan.  He's the best in the biz...

Fuck you Stan for being an optimist. Only pessimists are allowed in this forum!

You must dwell only on the dark side!!!

OK now that this [explicit] is set in stone, I have nothing more I can do but open a poll:

what will be the average market cap loss for BTS between now and the time the stealth is out [my guess is about April].


It is ridiculous but I do think you guys are willingly taking a 2.5 to more likely 4 mil USD market cap hit, so CNX can cash 45K immediately, and onceaponaprivacydream can make this 45K suicidal investment.[the one he brakes even in about 3-5 years?]

---------
weighted market cap per CMC
Dec 13 '15 - 9,602,798
till 7 days before the stealth release is announced.

OK since we are taking bets on the future price of BTS in USD terms, and i fully expect the price of bitcoin to rise now that both the bottom and base are in, and there will be zero tax loss selling this year (what caused last years low price in all crypto). I would have to predict that the BTS price drops -20% after the official announcement that VC money and requests for future construction (development) are now entering BTS.

oops. i forgot about the bitcoin halving. when does that happen again?

[giant middle finger]

This is one of the great threads.

what happened to the whole Stock market side of BTS? Overstock just got ok to issue shares on the BTC blockchain with Medici or whatever. I guess BTS will be a second mover in that department

That part of BTS is done already.

Anyone can issue a UIA backed by a share of Berkshire and open a market up and make money like Overstock is doing with their "trust us" version of blockchain based security sales. This is very old news man. 

google "user issued asset". and it will completely blow your f'n mind


(but not knowing where you are currently in terms of base knowledge, you might need to google "google" first)

[NewMine]

This is one of the great threads. Put it up along with the "merger proposal" thread.

The irony of this proposal and that thing called dpos.

Hey what happened to the whole Stock market side of BTS? Overstock just got ok to issue shares on the BTC blockchain with Medici or whatever. I guess BTS will be a second mover in that department. And stealth won't be usable for a stock market that is legit.

[tonyk]

OK now that this [explicit] is set in stone, I have nothing more I can do but open a poll:

what will be the average market cap loss for BTS between now and the time the stealth is out [my guess is about April].


It is ridiculous but I do think you guys are willingly taking a 2.5 to more likely 4 mil USD market cap hit, so CNX can cash 45K immediately, and onceaponaprivacydream can make this 45K suicidal investment.[the one he brakes even in about 3-5 years?]

---------
weighted market cap per CMC
Dec 13 '15 - 9,602,798
till 7 days before the stealth release is announced.

Tony, you are extremely short sighted.  How much of a market cap hit would BTS take if we weren't working on BTS at all?  How much of a hit would it take if we diluted BTS by 30K per month to fund features?

How much it will gain if you fund ANY of the other good features you suggested*?

What market are you exactly trying to get with stealth?
Some imaginary already in crypto audience that have found only things to dislike in BTS up till now, all of a sudden jumping on BTS train for stealth?


*

1. Bond Market (Poloniex Style Lending)
2. Prediction Market (Auger Style)
3. Ethereum (or something similar) VM integration
4. Liquidity Incentivisation
5. Gambling Systems

[bytemaster]

OK now that this [explicit] is set in stone, I have nothing more I can do but open a poll:

what will be the average market cap loss for BTS between now and the time the stealth is out [my guess is about April].


It is ridiculous but I do think you guys are willingly taking a 2.5 to more likely 4 mil USD market cap hit, so CNX can cash 45K immediately, and onceaponaprivacydream can make this 45K suicidal investment.[the one he brakes even in about 3-5 years?]

---------
weighted market cap per CMC
Dec 13 '15 - 9,602,798
till 7 days before the stealth release is announced.

Tony, you are extremely short sighted.  How much of a market cap hit would BTS take if we weren't working on BTS at all?  How much of a hit would it take if we diluted BTS by 30K per month to fund features? 

[Samupaha]

People seem to trust STEALTH more than MAKER. Total bids are 1625550 vs 45000 right now.

[tonyk]

OK now that this [explicit] is set in stone, I have nothing more I can do but open a poll:

what will be the average market cap loss for BTS between now and the time the stealth is out [my guess is about April].


It is ridiculous but I do think you guys are willingly taking a 2.5 to more likely 4 mil USD market cap hit, so CNX can cash 45K immediately, and onceaponaprivacydream can make this 45K suicidal investment.[the one he brakes even in about 3-5 years?]

---------
weighted market cap per CMC
Dec 13 '15 - 9,602,798
till 7 days before the stealth release is announced.

[Samupaha]

Why not just make an FBA from the start? I don't see why we need anyone to completely fund it and then turn it into an FBA after the fact. Put the UIA on the market from the start?

But if not, then okay the last resort is to have the anonymous group of investors buy and issue it anonymously.

I don't understand this either.  It seems to me that the FBA can be put forward from the start.  I don't see why we need the private funding first.  It seems like a bit of extra complexity and wiggling around for no real benefit. 

The only thing I get from this is that the pre funding guarantees they keep as much of it as they desire and only IF they desire, will they sell the FBA to the public.

There could easily be an alternative worker proposal, identical in every way, except the FBA is offered from the start with no private pre funding.  I wonder which would have greater support.  If its publicly funded, are these private investors still interested.   

If I understand this right, this is a problem mainly for Cryptonomex. It wants to minimize all risks with jurisdiction, which is understandable. Solution would be to move Cryptonomex to some other country where laws regarding securities are better.

But if somebody else wants to implement some other feature, they can issue FBA at first if they think it's a good idea. That somebody might be even totally anonymous to remove all legal risks. The product is just code so there is no need for DAC to know the identity of the coder.

[Stan]

If you need to spin something to fit your narrative, call Stan.  He's the best in the biz...

actually this made my day... it made me smile for 6h on ...whenever I remembered it...


The best example in my mind is when Stan posted a pic of 6-9 rockets launching at the same time (to prove his point)... not even 6h later he posted a pic 'proving' why launching 1 rocket is the best way to go...


PS
The 6 vs 1 rocket [both of course undeniable truths in themselves] was just before the time when the grand merger was announced....wish someone can find them damn post....

I enjoyed the trip down memory lane looking for the above pictures for Tonyk.

I ran across this one posted in that same epoch, just after Dan's Vegas Keynote address.
I leave it to those who are still hanging in there to identify themselves, as they choose.

Forum Heroes you know and love...

[onceuponatime]

"Looking at the numbers"
You're living in LaLa Land. My proposal is that the fee be 3x the regular transaction fee. How much is the transaction fee for a lifetime member again? And who do you think other than lifetime members is going to use such a feature? Private Mode transactions could be a tiny percentage of all transactions. And transactions now are very very few. I am risking a significant part of my life savings to help bootstrap BitShares. What are you doing?

That proves nothing.  Can someone else prove my numbers wrong and actually use real numbers to do it.

Stealth transfers cannot participate in the referral program. The fee for a stealth transfer can be higher (premium service) at about $0.50

Looking at the numbers.  If stealth transfers are charged $0.50 per transaction and you get $0.30 per transaction, then your $45,000 investment will be worth $157,680 in one year at a tx rate of just 1tx per minute.  At 1tx/sec (about half of bitcoins tx rate) that is $9,460,800 per year for a $45,000 investment.

Otherwise the numbers are correct.

I apologize. I have checked further and my understanding was flawed. Here is the feedback I got from Stan and Dan:

"The referral program does not play with Privacy mode transfers (because it is private, we don't know who the parties are or who referred them).  This means that even if the fee were the same as the basic transfer, on average the lifetime member would be paying 5x more a Private Transfer than a Public Transfer.   If you charge 3x the basic transfer fee, then life time members will pay 15x more for a Private transfer than a Public transfer.

Percentage based fees are not possible with Private Transfers because the amount being transferred is Private!   

Dan"

So, if the Privacy Mode charges a fee 3x the base fee of 30BTS, that will be 3 x 30 = 90BTS

At current prices, that is approximately 90 x .0039 US$ or about 35 cents US for a Private transaction. This would adjust with our BTS market cap as the Committee adjusts the base transaction fee.

Once we have recouped our investment, I presume there will be pressure on the owners of a STEALTH Asset to lower the 3x fee in order to not be undercut by potential competition.
Or, STEALTH Asset owners may use a goodly portion of our fees to enhance our service in order to stay competitive.

[Stan]

If you need to spin something to fit your narrative, call Stan.  He's the best in the biz...

actually this made my day... it made me smile for 6h on ...whenever I remembered it...


The best example in my mind is when Stan posted a pic of 6-9 rockets launching at the same time (to prove his point)... not even 6h later he posted a pic 'proving' why launching 1 rocket is the best way to go...


PS
The 6 vs 1 rocket [both of course undeniable truths in themselves] was just before the time when the grand merger was announced....wish someone can find them damn post....