Questions about the refund400k worker proposal

[fav]

It is kind of odd that such a simple task as returning unspent balance back to reserve requires a worker. Aren't those smart contracts not smart enough even for this?

They are. If no worker is voted in, the unspent budget would be returned to the reserve.

The thing is, if there is no refund worker, anyone can create a worker for themselves, vote for it, and it would be accepted. The refund worker creates a barrier you need to overcome, if you wanted to do that.

refund worker is just a protection, without one some whales could gang up and suck the pool dry with some bullshit worker. stakeholders can protect this from happening by voting for refund worker.

so everyone voting for refund at the moment is voting against alfredo

[pc]

It is kind of odd that such a simple task as returning unspent balance back to reserve requires a worker. Aren't those smart contracts not smart enough even for this?

They are. If no worker is voted in, the unspent budget would be returned to the reserve.

The thing is, if there is no refund worker, anyone can create a worker for themselves, vote for it, and it would be accepted. The refund worker creates a barrier you need to overcome, if you wanted to do that.

[yvv]

It is kind of odd that such a simple task as returning unspent balance back to reserve requires a worker. Aren't those smart contracts not smart enough even for this?

[pc]

Replied. tl;dr - it *is* a refund worker.

Btw, it would be a good idea to discuss such issues here in the forum first, before you take it out into the public. Doesn't make BitShares look good.

[R]

BUMP!

Can we talk about this 'refund400k' worker proposal? It is currently active in the BTS network and previous posts in this thread seem to indicate that it's destroying the 400k BTS each day instead of refunding it to the reserve pool..

I created a thread on steemit regarding this issue https://steemit.com/bitshares/@cm-steem/refund400k-not-refunding-but-rather-burning-destroying-400k-bts-day

I would massively appreciate more information being provided, there's a surprising lack of information regarding this active worker proposal & many are confused about its purpose.

Thanks,
CM.

[abit]

Glad to see that those refund/burn workers have been created and waiting for approval. Great thanks to @xeroc.
http://cryptofresh.com/p/1.10.45

[xeroc]

If the refund400K worker is actually a burn worker then that was a mistake on its creation.

Burning means the funds can never be used in the future, refund means it is put back for another day.   I will change my votes from refund400K to "Return 400K to Reserve" if someone can create the appropriately configured worker.  We should actually divide the up into 4  100K refund workers.  This way people can have greater control over what percent of fund should be returned vs spent.

I'll get to it tomorrow ..
and will try to let the committe members sign a proposal to create those workers with some higher expiration time ..

[bytemaster]

If the refund400K worker is actually a burn worker then that was a mistake on its creation.

Burning means the funds can never be used in the future, refund means it is put back for another day.   I will change my votes from refund400K to "Return 400K to Reserve" if someone can create the appropriately configured worker.  We should actually divide the up into 4  100K refund workers.  This way people can have greater control over what percent of fund should be returned vs spent.

[xeroc]

a "polling worker" is not really "defined" on the blockchain. It is simply what it is used for .. the stealth worker would be an example ..
maybe 4000BTS/day is a good threshold ..

[abit]

I have added a few paragraphs at
docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/user/worker.html
to clarify a few things about the worker concept in general

Thanks!

PSEUDO WORKERS

Three types of pseudo workers exist that are not primarily used to for salary.

* Polling Workers
A worker proposal can be used to poll the shareholders for an opinion. Those workers usually have no or very small pay. Additionally, they come with a proposal, recommendation or other topic on which shareholders can publish a binary opinion (pro, or contra).

*Refund Worker
This worker is used to set an approval limit for worker proposals and their payment by simply refunding his payment/salary to the reserve pool. If its amount of daily pay is as large as the daily available funds, and the worker has highest approval among all worker proposals, all funds will be returned to the reserves and no one will be payed. If, however, an other worker proposal has more votes than the refund worker, the proposal gets paid its salary, and the rest is return.

*Burn Worker
This type of worker is similar to the Refund Worker above but burns his pay.

@roadscape Would you like to add some description on http://cryptofresh.com/workers, and add a "type" column for the workers?

Yeah, I can definitely do this. Is "polling worker" defined on the blockchain or do we need to define a threshold? (i.e. e.g. anything below 4000 BTS/day is considered a poll?)

The quoted text I posted above is copied from docs.bitshares.eu, so better discuss with @xeroc
Thanks!

[roadscape]

I have added a few paragraphs at
docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/user/worker.html
to clarify a few things about the worker concept in general

Thanks!

PSEUDO WORKERS

Three types of pseudo workers exist that are not primarily used to for salary.

* Polling Workers
A worker proposal can be used to poll the shareholders for an opinion. Those workers usually have no or very small pay. Additionally, they come with a proposal, recommendation or other topic on which shareholders can publish a binary opinion (pro, or contra).

*Refund Worker
This worker is used to set an approval limit for worker proposals and their payment by simply refunding his payment/salary to the reserve pool. If its amount of daily pay is as large as the daily available funds, and the worker has highest approval among all worker proposals, all funds will be returned to the reserves and no one will be payed. If, however, an other worker proposal has more votes than the refund worker, the proposal gets paid its salary, and the rest is return.

*Burn Worker
This type of worker is similar to the Refund Worker above but burns his pay.

@roadscape Would you like to add some description on http://cryptofresh.com/workers, and add a "type" column for the workers?

Yeah, I can definitely do this. Is "polling worker" defined on the blockchain or do we need to define a threshold? (i.e. e.g. anything below 4000 BTS/day is considered a poll?)

[xeroc]

There currently is only a burn worker as a pseudo worker (no idea why it's called a refund worker though)
I will help the committee to replace the refund worker of init0 with a refund worker from committee account and help them create another for burning ..


edit:
@maqifrnswa: no idea where this inconsistency comes from

[maqifrnswa]

Technically, the refund400k is

Code: [Select]

>>> get_object 1.14.0
get_object 1.14.0
[{
    "id": "1.14.0",
    "worker_account": "1.2.90742",
    "work_begin_date": "2015-10-20T17:30:00",
    "work_end_date": "2035-12-31T00:00:00",
    "daily_pay": "40000000000",
    "worker": [
      0,{
        "total_burned": "1742631985322"
      }
    ],
    "vote_for": "2:65",
    "vote_against": "2:66",
    "total_votes_for": "21716971826670",
    "total_votes_against": "7192913280182",
    "name": "refund400k",
    "url": ""
  }
]
Looks like the fund to this worker is "burned". Is init0 able to change the destination of the funds in the future?

It does say burned, is that the correct word? (burn=removal from supply versus refund=return to reserve?)

[abit]

I have added a few paragraphs at
docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/user/worker.html
to clarify a few things about the worker concept in general

Thanks!

PSEUDO WORKERS

Three types of pseudo workers exist that are not primarily used to for salary.

* Polling Workers
A worker proposal can be used to poll the shareholders for an opinion. Those workers usually have no or very small pay. Additionally, they come with a proposal, recommendation or other topic on which shareholders can publish a binary opinion (pro, or contra).

*Refund Worker
This worker is used to set an approval limit for worker proposals and their payment by simply refunding his payment/salary to the reserve pool. If its amount of daily pay is as large as the daily available funds, and the worker has highest approval among all worker proposals, all funds will be returned to the reserves and no one will be payed. If, however, an other worker proposal has more votes than the refund worker, the proposal gets paid its salary, and the rest is return.

*Burn Worker
This type of worker is similar to the Refund Worker above but burns his pay.

@roadscape Would you like to add some description on http://cryptofresh.com/workers, and add a "type" column for the workers?

[xeroc]

I have added a few paragraphs at
docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/user/worker.html
to clarify a few things about the worker concept in general