Author Topic: Bolstering DEX Liquidity (previously my rant/opinion on Bitshares' DEX)  (Read 13184 times)

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Offline CoinHoarder

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He complained about me calling him a brown noser, and  decided to 'improve' by becoming spineless thoughtless Nu promoter...

Don't flatter yourself... I was going to write the OP regardless.

@ The Nushares posters

Yes, my opinion on Nushares has changed a lot. I THINK there are others in this community that are in the same boat but are too stubborn to admit so.

I have become so convinced that the Nushares/B&C solution to a DEX is superior to the Bitshares' solution, that I hedged my bet by investing in them both. This is coming from a long time Bitshares supporter, so I did not take the decision lightly.

A. On Bitshares you are trading derivatives, on B&C you are trading the real assets.
B. Volume and liquidity is the main reason why their design is superior. Bitshares' DEX has no liquidity because there is no adoption, and there is no adoption because there is no liquidity. This problem is simply not sovable other than to simply wait and pray that it eventually becomes more widely adopted in the future. Nushares' design solves this problem.

Marrying the solutions would be a far superior design than both solutions existing by themselves.
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Offline Pheonike


Bitshares has become the windows mobile of crypto. It's has the same problem, good platform but not enough users to justify a developer's time. Microsoft is a billion dollar company is resorting to developing emulators and tools to allow android/ios apps to run on it's platform. Seems like Bitshares is heading towards a similar fate.

Offline tonyk

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@CoinGame I'm really surprised, too. This community's tone towards NuBits has made a complete reversal in the past year.

I miss @tonyk hating on me because my first post was in a NuBits thread. :P

Good times.

Do not get me wrong, my opinion has not changed a bit in regards to Nu. And in all honesty I can do nothing about an idiot like the OP, starting a threads saying whatever comes to his mind.

He complained about me calling him a brown noser, and  decided to 'improve' by becoming spineless thoughtless Nu promoter...
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Chronos

@CoinGame I'm really surprised, too. This community's tone towards NuBits has made a complete reversal in the past year.

I miss @tonyk hating on me because my first post was in a NuBits thread. :P

Good times.

Offline Akado

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This is the most flattering thread I've seen for Nu on this forum, but how does anyone expect investors to have any faith in BitShares if you guys have to pivot every nine months?

What has this project consistently done well with since launch?  That's genuinely an honest question. I would like to know. My impression is that project tries to do everything, and because of that nothing gets done well. I mean it's literally at the point where someone is suggesting to merge the deign of Nu and B&C into the project and the responses are like "great idea!".

One year ago Nu was a ponzi scheme, horrible economics, disaster waiting to happen... on and on. (I mean it could be a disaster waiting to happen... who knows.) Now I arrive at this thread.

When is BitShares going to decide to focus on doing one thing really well?  I don't have a deep understanding of the project but I like to come by here and catch up on happens. There's no real product focus. There will be no community or vision to stand on if the project doesn't have legs. Leaning on the success of Nu doesn't count.

We haven't really had to market Nu. I think we put out our first paid ads for NuBits on The Daily Decrypt just a couple weeks ago. That's it for paid marketing as far as I'm aware and it took us a year to get there. The project focuses mainly on results. I can promise you though if you guys decided to start following the implementation of Nu and B&C it will be the best free marketing we could ever ask for. I'm giddy just thinking about it.

Just wanted to leave some thoughts since this is a very strange thread to see on here. The BitShares community is much larger than Nu, and it has some really great members. It's why I like to come lurk. I think the future of BitShares would be brighter by finding a real identity. Not through the community but through the product. I'm not really sure what this project is trying to do, and I don't think i'm alone there.

That's because BitShares is a platform where anyone can do whatever they want. Except that continues vague as hell and no devs are interested in doing that.

Like you said, we need a product to sell. We need to start somewhere. The argument almost anything can be done doesn't make any sense, not for now at least. We need a product, an objective and build stuff around that. Then with time move onto other things. Like it is, is a mess.
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Offline CoinGame

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This is the most flattering thread I've seen for Nu on this forum, but how does anyone expect investors to have any faith in BitShares if you guys have to pivot every nine months?

What has this project consistently done well with since launch?  That's genuinely an honest question. I would like to know. My impression is the project tries to do everything, and because of that nothing gets done well. I mean it's literally at the point where someone is suggesting to merge the design of Nu and B&C into the project and the responses are like "great idea!".

One year ago Nu was a ponzi scheme, horrible economics, disaster waiting to happen... on and on. (I mean it could be a disaster waiting to happen... who knows.) Now I arrive at this thread.

When is BitShares going to decide to focus on doing one thing really well?  I don't have a deep understanding of the project but I like to come by here and catch up on happenings. There's no real product focus. There will be no community or vision to stand on if the project doesn't have legs. Leaning on the success of Nu doesn't count.

We haven't really had to market Nu. I think we put out our first paid ads for NuBits on The Daily Decrypt just a couple weeks ago. That's it for paid marketing as far as I'm aware and it took us a year to get there. The project focuses mainly on results. I can promise you though if you guys decided to start following the implementation of Nu and B&C it will be the best free marketing we could ever ask for. I'm giddy just thinking about it.

Just wanted to leave some thoughts since this is a very strange thread to see on here. The BitShares community is much larger than Nu, and it has some really great members. It's why I like to come lurk. I think the future of BitShares would be brighter by finding a real identity. Not through the community but through the product. I'm not really sure what this project is trying to do, and I don't think i'm alone there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 04:17:53 am by CoinGame »
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Offline kenCode

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and to quote Ricky Bobby.... if you're not first you're last.  8)

i love that movie, thanx for the smile @CoinHoarder :)
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Offline CoinHoarder

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+5%

IMHO, we had to complete exchange features first, such as BSIP 4 and market making bots, then dive into stealth transfer feature.

I am being kind of hypocritical here, but after reading BM's blog response today I kind of agree with him that Bitshares should pivot and his time is best spent focusing on Stealth transfers and MASs. He brought up something I hadn't considered (#2 of the following).

1. DEX is a hotly contested sub-industry in the cryptosphere (competition from B&C, Nushares, and Nxt)
2. Even if the DEX realistically adopted, it still would not be very profitable or bring in a ton of new users (BM explained this well in his blog post today).

I think all projects should be worked on in parallel and one feature is not neccesarily more important than the other. We as a community need to get organized, prioritize, find developers, and get these projects developed in parallel to each other.

MAS is good and has great potential. But we need to have profitable product first to sustain development.
IMO, DEX is almost or already complete. But it cannot be profitable without percentage based fee. So I would argue for completion of BSIP 4.
Then let third party developers to develop advanced exchange features.

I can agree with you on the fees and third party development of advanced DEX features.

Realistically, I am doubtful that the exchange will be very profitable anytime in the near future. I think BM worded this better than I could in his blog. It is hard to spur adoption without volume/liquidity, and it is hard to spur volume/liquidity without adoption. To solve the problem anytime in the near future, it requires us changing our approach. This is why I am suggesting we marry the Nushares/B&C Exchange and SmartCoin/DEX ideas into one well oiled unstoppable DEX machine. This, along with BM branching off into other less competitive features/industries will help bootstrap the exchange.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 01:28:18 am by CoinHoarder »
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Offline clayop

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+5%

IMHO, we had to complete exchange features first, such as BSIP 4 and market making bots, then dive into stealth transfer feature.

I am being kind of hypocritical here, but after reading BM's blog response today I kind of agree with him that Bitshares should pivot and his time is best spent focusing on Stealth transfers and MASs. He brought up something I hadn't considered (#2 of the following).

1. DEX is a hotly contested sub-industry in the cryptosphere (competition from B&C, Nushares, and Nxt)
2. Even if the DEX realistically adopted, it still would not be very profitable or bring in a ton of new users (BM explained this well in his blog post today).

I think all projects should be worked on in parallel and one feature is not neccesarily more important than the other. We as a community need to get organized, prioritize, find developers, and get these projects developed in parallel to each other.

MAS is good and has great potential. But we need to have profitable product first to sustain development.
IMO, DEX is almost or already complete. But it cannot be profitable without percentage based fee. So I would argue for completion of BSIP 4.
Then let third party developers to develop advanced exchange features.
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Vote for me and see Korean Bitshares community grows
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Offline CoinHoarder

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I suggest we start with shamelessly admitting that Nushares/Nubits/B&C Exchange have a quality (albeit different) solution to the same problem, and that merging those solutions into Bitshares so they can exist in harmony with SmartCoins is advantageous for both shareholders and "customers". From there, let Bitshares' users/customers decide which implementations they prefer. I think we would still have an advantage if we can get both solutions (SmartCoins and Nushares' and B&Cs' implementations) working harmoniously. An advantage in exposure, market cap, and utility due to all our other features. Let's make sure we secure the decentralized exchange market before branching off too much.

Sounds all good to me! As you said, screw the shareholders.. just do it.

So you seem to have an interest in this and have a vision for it. So what practical steps do you propose to take next?

Is this something outside the realm of something you can execute yourself?

If so, do you need someone to work with you to plan and execute?

Please keep going.. this was a great post.. it just needs to keep on moving towards it's logical conclusion.

I think we should get organized as a community of stakeholders, prioritize what needs to be worked on, and find developers willing to work for Bitshares. Let BM do his thing with Stealth transfers and MASs... the community can take care of everything else.

I have been getting back into programming lately, but have not coded any C++ in a very long time. I have been learning Javascript sicne I'm interested in building web applications, so I may be able to help with some GUI work but I stay very busy with a 40 hour job plus 6 college hours. I would see myself more of an organizer at this point though, and would probably leave the developing to those that are more knowledgeable and have more time to do so.

+5%

@all the others: please stop blaming CNX for trying to be a competitive and profitable company. If they don't make their money they will disappear and the consequence of that will be that Dan has to work for Google or someone even worse!!

Yes, we need not be worried about dilution or giving up equity (FBAs) at this point in the game. This is a race, and to quote Ricky Bobby.... if you're not first you're last.  8)
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Offline yvv

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@all the others: please stop blaming CNX for trying to be a competitive and profitable company. If they don't make their money they will disappear and the consequence of that will be that Dan has to work for Google or someone even worse!!

Why is it bad to work for Google? My friends work, and they are happy.

Offline CoinHoarder

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IMHO, we had to complete exchange features first, such as BSIP 4 and market making bots, then dive into stealth transfer feature.

I am being kind of hypocritical here, but after reading BM's blog response today I kind of agree with him that Bitshares should pivot and his time is best spent focusing on Stealth transfers and MASs. He brought up something I hadn't considered (#2 of the following).

1. DEX is a hotly contested sub-industry in the cryptosphere (competition from B&C, Nushares, and Nxt)
2. Even if the DEX realistically adopted, it still would not be very profitable or bring in a ton of new users (BM explained this well in his blog post today).

I think all projects should be worked on in parallel and one feature is not neccesarily more important than the other. We as a community need to get organized, prioritize, find developers, and get these projects developed in parallel to each other.
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Offline CoinHoarder

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"B&C will allow the exchange of real assets"

How does it allow the exchange of real assets?

" ... handling of funds will be coordinated via blockchain messages between multisig signers whose reputations are adjusted every minute by shareholder voting ... "

BCT Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.0
Whitepaper: https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf
Website: https://bcexchange.org/
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Offline btswildpig

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@all the others: please stop blaming CNX for trying to be a competitive and profitable company. If they don't make their money they will disappear and the consequence of that will be that Dan has to work for Google or someone even worse!!

I think everyone in that team can work for google except BM . I don't think Google can tolerate him , or he can not tolerate google .

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Offline fuzzy

it never ceases to stun me how many shareholders just say "screw it, let someone else pay for it" then wonder why bitshares only has a small handful of devs when it coukd become a Mecca for them. 
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