poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal

[donkeypong]

If you think you have a lot of users who want lower fees, then who are they? There are 11 pages of messages in this thread. I'm guessing (though I have not counted) that at least 20 or 30 different people have posted their thoughts. And it seems like only 2 or 3 posters actually want these low fees. Everyone else prefers to fund the system and help it grow.

Jakub keeps asking for evidence that low fees would attract people. Also, I question whether this poll is anywhere near accurate (I don't think so). If you have more real people who want lower fees, ask them not just to vote, but to post here also and explain why. They can write it in Chinese if they want. Then we'll believe they exist and we'll listen to their reasons.

As @jakub keeps asking you, please present some evidence that lower fees would help, not just the opinion of 2 or 3 loud posters. If there are more members than 2 or 3 who want lower fees, then ask them to post also.

[yvv]

You pay 80% of LTM fee to referrer, and only 20% to network.

20% is not a bad reward for zero effort wouldn't you say?

You mean 80% for zero effort? Hell yeah, it is not bad at all for referrers. But it is bad for network. Network needs to have all transaction fees. Referrers need to be refunded for their expenses only.

"Referrers need to be refunded for their expenses only." -- You suggest a referrer should simply break even - wouldn't that give zero incentive to actively refer users? Moreover, you should consider that the cost to acquire a user involves costs for trying unsuccessfully to acquire users who do not sign-up.

If you invest in BTS, you have incentive to bring more users right away. More active users, better for BTS. If this is not enough incentive to you, then BTS is worthless. Referrers should be discouraged to create accounts which are never used. Those are spamers. 

[mint chocolate chip]

You pay 80% of LTM fee to referrer, and only 20% to network.

20% is not a bad reward for zero effort wouldn't you say?

You mean 80% for zero effort? Hell yeah, it is not bad at all for referrers. But it is bad for network. Network needs to have all transaction fees. Referrers need to be refunded for their expenses only.

"Referrers need to be refunded for their expenses only." -- You suggest a referrer should simply break even - wouldn't that give zero incentive to actively refer users? Moreover, you should consider that the cost to acquire a user involves costs for trying unsuccessfully to acquire users who do not sign-up.

[yvv]

You pay 80% of LTM fee to referrer, and only 20% to network.

20% is not a bad reward for zero effort wouldn't you say?

You mean 80% for zero effort? Hell yeah, it is not bad at all for referrers. But it is bad for network. Network needs to have all transaction fees. Referrers need to be refunded for their expenses only.

[yvv]

You just demonstrate here that referral system didn't work for you. You didn't bring active users into system, but you paid ridiculous LTM fee, 80% of which went to another referrer.

No. It just demonstrates that without liquidity and efficient gateways BitShares is hard to sell to customers despite all the effort that EstefanTT has made.
And he admits he wouldn't have made this effort, if there was no referral system incentive.

If you are against the referral system, it's up to you, yvv, to demonstrate that BitShares would have had more users, if we hadn't had the referral system.
So far none of you has been able to produce any evidence for this.

I am not against the referral system. It is great to help a new user to set up account. I am against paying 80% of fees to referrer. Fees should go to network. I should not need to pay $100 to become a referrer. I don't need no reward for referring new users, but I need a refund for account creation fee which I will pay for them. The way referral system is set up now just does not work for me. Of course, others may have different opinion on this matter.

[Erlich Bachman]

You pay 80% of LTM fee to referrer, and only 20% to network.

20% is not a bad reward for zero effort wouldn't you say?

[jakub]

You just demonstrate here that referral system didn't work for you. You didn't bring active users into system, but you paid ridiculous LTM fee, 80% of which went to another referrer.

No. It just demonstrates that without liquidity and efficient gateways BitShares is hard to sell to customers despite all the effort that EstefanTT has made.
And he admits he wouldn't have made this effort, if there was no referral system incentive.

If you are against the referral system, it's up to you, yvv, to demonstrate that BitShares would have had more users, if we didn't have the referral system and had very low transfer fees instead.
So far none of you has been able to produce any evidence for this.

You want to change something, then it's you who needs to demonstrate that the change has a valid reason and that BitShares would be better off after the change.

[EstefanTT]

Check the revenue of bitsharesfcx, the few accounts we have referred at the moment gave us a couple hundreds bts.
So, one year, 3 persons working on making BitShares accessible to any french speaker. All of that work for less than 200 bts ... 0.5$
You are right ! Shame on us !!! ;p

These ridiculous few bts we gain were not taking from BitShares, they came from the users. The very same users we place in the system.

You just demonstrate here that referral system didn't work for you. You didn't bring active users into system, but you paid ridiculous LTM fee, 80% of which went to another referrer.

I'm not expecting to win money right now. I just wanted to help to spread information about BitShares with two friends.
When BM explain the RP in past june, it cheers up our little team and we push our project further because we saw that we could have fun with it but also maybe one day have some nice incomes from it.
So I would say, the RP works very well.

[EstefanTT]

This % can be lower by the community if some day it become too much but right now, it's one of best way we have to attract business on BitShares.
Why would you want to remove it ?

[yvv]

Check the revenue of bitsharesfcx, the few accounts we have referred at the moment gave us a couple hundreds bts.
So, one year, 3 persons working on making BitShares accessible to any french speaker. All of that work for less than 200 bts ... 0.5$
You are right ! Shame on us !!! ;p

These ridiculous few bts we gain were not taking from BitShares, they came from the users. The very same users we place in the system.

You just demonstrate here that referral system didn't work for you. You didn't bring active users into system, but you paid ridiculous LTM fee, 80% of which went to another referrer.

[yvv]

There is hundreds of hours of work there ! This work more the expenses didn't cost even 1 single bts to BitShares. Thanks to the referral program !

You byte 80% of fees from bitshares and claim that it does not cost it a single BTS? What a nonsense!

Anyone with LTM has prepaid for those transaction fees.  How many people do you think have recouped the cost of LTM in fees yet?? Very few if any, so the system has a surplus from LTM so far.

You pay 80% of LTM fee to referrer, and only 20% to network.

[EstefanTT]

Check the revenue of bitsharesfcx, the few accounts we have referred at the moment gave us a couple hundreds bts.
So, one year, 3 persons working on making BitShares accessible to any french speaker. All of that work for less than 200 bts ... 0.5$
You are right ! Shame on us !!! ;p

These ridiculous few bts we gain were not taking from BitShares, they came from the users. The very same users we place in the system.

[clayop]

How do business owners think?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21223.msg275321.html#msg275321

[Pheonike]

There is hundreds of hours of work there ! This work more the expenses didn't cost even 1 single bts to BitShares. Thanks to the referral program !

You byte 80% of fees from bitshares and claim that it does not cost it a single BTS? What a nonsense!

Anyone with LTM has prepaid for those transaction fees.  How many people do you think have recouped the cost of LTM in fees yet?? Very few if any, so the system has a surplus from LTM so far.

[yvv]

There is hundreds of hours of work there ! This work more the expenses didn't cost even 1 single bts to BitShares. Thanks to the referral program !

You byte 80% of fees from bitshares and claim that it does not cost it a single BTS? What a nonsense!