Author Topic: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?  (Read 5292 times)

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Offline bytemaster

Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« on: February 04, 2016, 09:06:55 pm »
Proof of Stake seems to mean different things to different people. The early POS systems where flawed. In most of the discussions on POS I see people throwing out strawmen.  Even worse, people won't give anything with a POS label the time of day, they have already written it off.

So when we say DPOS we automatically lose people. We need to get through people's knee jerk reactions.

So I am curious if there is another way to describe DPOS consensus without using POS.
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Offline btswolf

Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2016, 09:45:06 pm »
On Twitter, since 2016 there is only one mention of BitShares in combination with DPOS.
DPOS also wasn`t mentioned in the latest press releases of CCEDk.
So actually it is already abandoned.
I don`t see at all why we should use terms like pow, pos and dpos to describe BitShares.
Those words mean nothing to non-crypto people and we don`t have to put our self in any of those categories for stereotyped thinking.
We are BitShares, BTS, a blockchain based DAO.
That`s it.

Offline Frodo

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2016, 09:47:10 pm »
proof of vote
proof of trust

Offline merivercap

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2016, 09:52:08 pm »
What about just remove the POS and just say Delegated Consensus? 

...also Organizational Consensus?

As btswolf just mentioned DAO/DAC might be the key phrase to stress since didn't you coin the term anyways?  If it would be good to emphasize that... the first ever DAO/DAC. I think Decentralized Autonomous Community might be preferred over 'Company' for legal reasons and it will attract more people...

BTW My go-to line in explaining DPOS/POS: 'Millions of corporations and organizations use this (or operate this way) today ..'  Seems to have worked the few times I used it, even to someone who seemed like a hardline Bitcoin maximalist.


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Offline Akado

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 09:55:50 pm »
"delegated proof of stake" doesn't pass the message of the governance model we have. Proof of Stake for me is where users have their stake on the wallets and produce more or at least that's the basic idea i guess.

We are beyond that. What the name should suggest is the current governance model where everyone even with a single BitShare can vote in the future of BitShares. That it's easier to reach consensus because you can simply vote thing up or not with a simple click. With that click, people choose where the money is spent and used. Their vote counts. Their stake counts and has an influence in the future.

You don't need to run a node or be a miner,- that most people might not know how to do -  you can do that with a simple click. It's accessible to anyone.
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jakub

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2016, 09:59:10 pm »
We are indeed treated like a pariah in the cryptoworld, but I don't think much of it stems from the name DPOS.
IMO, the problem lies much deeper.

Anyway, if we change DPOS to something else, this would be the most likely reaction:
"You see? They're trying to hide the problems we were talking about."

While actually the opposite is true: we have not identified any fatal problems and DPOS has proved to be something much more powerful than anybody could've expected 2 years ago.

If we can afford changing names, I think the name "BitShares" is our biggest marketing liability.
Never too late to fix it...

Offline monsterer

Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2016, 10:01:42 pm »
You need to have a white paper discussing the byzantine tolerance, the possible attack vectors, the mitigation, the game theory etc etc - then you will at least have something to direct people towards.
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Offline brainbug

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2016, 10:02:45 pm »
Delegated Proof of Stake gets Proof by Elected Delegates, PED.

Offline Akado

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2016, 10:03:00 pm »
We are indeed treated like a pariah in the cryptoworld, but I don't think much of it stems from the name DPOS.
IMO, the problem lies much deeper.

Anyway, if we change DPOS to something else, this would be the most likely reaction:
"You see? They're trying to hide the problems we were talking about."

While actually the opposite is true: we have not identified any fatal problems and DPOS has proved to be something much more powerful than anybody could've expected 2 years ago.

If we can afford changing names, I think the name "BitShares" is our biggest marketing liability.
Never too late to fix it...

There should be something to back the change of name, otherwise it doesn't make sense from a marketing perspective. I really don't see the project changing the name honestly although I guess that could be up for voting...

Curious to see what would happen if we did one though, and launched with a nice prediction markets UI and bond markets. Curious, but don't see it happening.
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Offline btswolf

Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2016, 10:11:04 pm »
proof of vote

Yes, if you want to describe BitShares you probably need the terms "voting" or "election" and these words suggest democracy.
So what do we actually have? Voting Shares based Consensus - VSC ?

[member=32670]merivercap[/member]
I already avoid trying to name BitShares a DAC (Company) because that`s in my jurisdiction definitely a legal term.
As far as I know Organization is not a legal term per se, at least not in my country.
But yes, everybody is free to use his own favorite term to describe it.
I just don`t like to use DAC (Community) at the moment, but that may change in future...

Offline merivercap

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2016, 10:54:14 pm »
DAO is fine.  What's wrong with 'Community' [member=32866]btswolf[/member] ?
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Offline liondani

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2016, 11:05:34 pm »
Smart Crypto-Democracy-Shares

or

Smart CDS

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2016, 11:18:32 pm »
I agree that the term is dated. The DPOS term is for people who understand the basics of how Bitcoin and blockchains work. The wider audience we want to reach now does not come from crypto and so they may not be familiar with the problems that DPOS solves. Who controls it? How are decisions made? Those may be the immediate questions people ask, especially if they understand that it is decentralized. So we need some term to express that there is a committee, voted in and elected by users, and that committee makes decisions affecting the network. You Libertarians are going to hate me, but I think what we really have here is representative democracy on the blockchain. It's a democratic system and that's quite monumental (a far cry from Bitcoin's mess).
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 11:35:01 pm by donkeypong »

Offline abit

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2016, 11:57:07 pm »
You need to have a white paper discussing the byzantine tolerance, the possible attack vectors, the mitigation, the game theory etc etc - then you will at least have something to direct people towards.
Honestly, I agree with this.

//Update:
I think this post will cause some dumps on BTS, or say decreasing of market cap.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 12:00:28 am by abit »
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Offline speedy

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Re: Should we Abandon Proof of Stake Marketing?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2016, 12:41:43 am »
I think that instead of shying away from the algorithm that has proven successful thus far, we should have a blog post that defends it and addresses the FUD that comes from people like Andreas.

I agree with Jakub in that if we rename DPOS, people will see it as a sign of weakness.