Things I don't like about the committee

[jakub]

Even though I can't yet reveal the whole fee schedule to you, I hope it makes sense to you.

Why is that?
Keeping things secret in this context makes sense only in one case: if you are negotiating something between yourselves.
All this stuff should be in the public domain since the very beginning.

I think this is a misunderstanding.  Perhaps he is still formulating/enhancing his fee schedule idea. xeroc has not kept any of his idea secret. In fact, he has shared his fee schedule idea in the general bitshares telegram channel.

Why Telegram and not this forum?
Just for your convenience?
Well, if that's the case IMO transparency should take precedence over your convenience.

Telegram should be used only for technical stuff and to facilitate coordination.
Or we should all move to Telegram.

[jakub]

AFAIK, the committee is working like this:

1) A user starts a certain topic on the forum which may need the attention of the committee

2) Feedback are gathered from the forum as more users participate in it

3) Committee members may choose to participate in the on-going discussion

4) Committee members may clarify the concerns or ideas raised in the forum posts and discuss ideas among them with proxies' active participation (in telegram)

5) After a period of time, a level of understanding is established between the users who contributed to the posts, the result usually ends with some gives-and-takes and new ideas

6) The committee attempts to make a proposal which absorbs the essence of (5) and it will be presented to the forum for discussion among the users (especially key players affected by the proposed change). 

7) Feedbacks on the proposal are gathered. 

8.) Fine-tuning/modification to the proposal may be needed. Committee discusses them in telegram,  again with active participation of proxies

9) A fine-tuned proposal (if needed) is made by the committee

10) A process of (7) to (9) is repeated until a final proposal can be made.

11) Committee votes on the final proposal.  At this point, the committee has a deep and clear understanding of the issues at hand and it can vote with confidence.

OK, this looks a fine plan.
So would you refer me to the forum thread which inspired the committee to work on rebranding the referral program?

(By "rebranding the referral program" I mean targeting it to *advanced* users only instead of *frequent* users, by pushing the flat transfer fee so low that buying AM or LTM for non-advanced users makes no sense.)

[cube]

Even though I can't yet reveal the whole fee schedule to you, I hope it makes sense to you.

Why is that?
Keeping things secret in this context makes sense only in one case: if you are negotiating something between yourselves.
All this stuff should be in the public domain since the very beginning.

I think this is a misunderstanding.  Perhaps he is still formulating/enhancing his fee schedule idea. xeroc has not kept any of his idea secret. In fact, he has shared his fee schedule idea in the general bitshares telegram channel.

[jakub]

Even though I can't yet reveal the whole fee schedule to you, I hope it makes sense to you.

Why is that?
Keeping things secret in this context makes sense only in one case: if you are negotiating something between yourselves.
All this stuff should be in the public domain since the very beginning.

[cube]

AFAIK, the committee is working like this:

1) A user starts a certain topic on the forum which may need the attention of the committee

2) Feedback are gathered from the forum as more users participate in it

3) Committee members may choose to participate in the on-going discussion

4) Committee members may clarify the concerns or ideas raised in the forum posts and discuss ideas among them with proxies' active participation (in telegram)

5) After a period of time, a level of understanding is established between the users who contributed to the posts, the result usually ends with some gives-and-takes and new ideas

6) The committee attempts to make a proposal which absorbs the essence of (5) and it will be presented to the forum for discussion among the users (especially key players affected by the proposed change). 

7) Feedbacks on the proposal are gathered. 

8.) Fine-tuning/modification to the proposal may be needed. Committee discusses them in telegram,  again with active participation of proxies

9) A fine-tuned proposal (if needed) is made by the committee

10) A process of (7) to (9) is repeated until a final proposal can be made.

11) Committee votes on the final proposal.  At this point, the committee has a deep and clear understanding of the issues at hand and it can vote with confidence.

[jakub]

How about posting all of the committees telegram chat logs on the forum.

But why not discuss it here, on the forum, so that if a committee member says something I do not agree with, I can point it out and make him defend his case?
I don't want to be a passive reader. I don't have time for this.

This forum is the public arena where you have to be able to stand your ground, if you play a political role like this.
If you cannot produce concise and clear arguments on the forum, you should not be a committee member in the first place.

[jakub]

Most proxies are invited to the Telegram channel. So there is enough transparency imo.

IM is a good tool for discussing.

Committee hasn't made any decision on changing something, just proposals for changing something.

I know. Fortunately it's not able to make any decision.

But for me this situation is very strange.
The committee works on details which I'll will not even look into because I do not agree with the underlying assumptions.
Why don't we discuss assumptions first and then work on the numbers?

@Akado has made a very good point a few days ago, that at this stage liquidity is the key, not the transfer fees.
I agree with him and I'll not allow to touch the transfer fees (thus substantially change the business rules) unless somebody makes a solid argument that it makes sense.

And I have a feeling that the committee, instead of trying to make this argument, went straight to work on details, as if this argument had been made.

Leave out the transfer fee from the current committee work, and I'll have no objections whatsoever.
But do not try to obfuscate the transfer fee cut with tweaking of hundreds of other fees.
Otherwise I'll have no choice but to reject all those valuable tweaks just because I do not agree with just one: the transfer fee cut.

[JonnyB]

How about posting all of the committees telegram chat logs on the forum.

[abit]

Most proxies are invited to the Telegram channel. So there is enough transparency imo.

IM is a good tool for discussing.

Committee hasn't made any decision on changing something, just proposals for changing something.

[jakub]

There are two major things I don't like:

(1) The committee is making discussions outside this forum
I understand that the Telegram tool is a useful tool for efficient coordination when a multi-sig account is involved, but really that's all it should be used for.

All strategy discussions should be here, on the forum, transparent to every shareholder.
Do you change you opinions so fast that you need a real-time tool to communicate?

Or are you negotiating some kind of deal between each other? If that's the case, this is *not* what the committee is supposed to be IMO.
It feels like TPP - "you folks just back off, and wait till we are finished negotiating between ourselves".
WTF is this?

It was quite funny when @BunkerChain Labs told us in the last Mumble that the "committee is working hard and soon will be able to show the result of its work".
I think you completely misunderstand the role of the committee.
If are on the committee, you should be engaged in the discussions here on the forum and be able to defend your case here on the forum so we can know what your motivations and arguments are.

And you should be actively contributing to all threads that affect anything related to pricing strategy and at least try to construct sensible arguments.
You seem to be absolutely detached from the forum.

IMO this forum is our Parliament, *not* the committee.
Either you are able to argue your case or you get voted out. That's it.
We need our best minds to be on the committee, instead of turning it into some sort of private club where internal deals are made.


(2)  The committee assumes some important decisions has already been made
Why is the committee working on minute details of a new fee schedule *AS IF* the decision about rebranding the referral program has already been made?

Isn't this the most rational course of actions:
(1) First reach a consensus about the need to rebrand the referral program at this stage (i.e. before the liquidity issue is sorted out).
(2) *If* most shareholders agree with this new approach to the RP,  then start working on a detailed implementation.

Otherwise you are wasting your time *or* you assume the big decision has already been made.