No dilution. Now what? Everyone anti dilution please report.

[xeroc]

I even know bitcoin miners brought more bitcoin with their profit when Bitcoin price is low or going up . BTS delegate/worker ever done that ?

didnt know I was supposed to tell you z
that I have put way more into BTS than just my 'time' .. you can also see that I have nevet sold any of my 'earned' BTS.

Your statement ia pretty disappointing.

[clayop]

The price at Feb 4 (when alt started anti-dilution post): $0.003215. Now $0.004176. +29.9%.

Just coincidence? During the same period, Dash went down -7.6%, Doge increased slightly, +6.7%

[btswildpig]

To sustain BTS's marketcap , investors are always more important than users . Especially "speculators" . So-called Long term investors only provide liquidity once .

So basically you think that BTS is just another pump'n'dump coin and not a share of a DAC?

BTS is shares . Shares are pump and dumps according to basic and simple economical common sense .

Every shares in the world is about predicting its potential/future and speculative on it short term/long term beyond or below their actual value.

BTS has no product . Even the basic product is built on top of shares . Hence another speculative design .

If I have the time , I could write a thesis to explain it . Sadly I don't .

In order to have a profitable business with actual economical income , you need outside income . But BTS by design can only accept inside shares as income . It's the exact meaning of "inner-circulation" . People can only pay the system by the speculative value of BTS , not by real outside money like fiat/btc . And BTS holders can not get dividend from actual outside value .

Hmm....I think I may lost you here .

If I build a machine that provides a service that people find useful,
and people pay "real" money to buy tickets to use that machine,
then that machine is a valid business. 

The fact that people speculate on the future value of those tickets is a completely orthogonal proposition.

You simple ignored the part that unlike real business , BitShares can not accept buyer's money . All new coming money will be falling in the hands of someone who was selling at that time and not directly in the system . It simply created liquidity , but not actual income that can be saved. And that is exactly how every speculative object works , not a company .

The machine you're describing only works if the machine is the only place selling the ticket .

It's a simple model . I'm sure some day you'll figure it out .

[Stan]

To sustain BTS's marketcap , investors are always more important than users . Especially "speculators" . So-called Long term investors only provide liquidity once .

So basically you think that BTS is just another pump'n'dump coin and not a share of a DAC?

BTS is shares . Shares are pump and dumps according to basic and simple economical common sense .

Every shares in the world is about predicting its potential/future and speculative on it short term/long term beyond or below their actual value.

BTS has no product . Even the basic product is built on top of shares . Hence another speculative design .

If I have the time , I could write a thesis to explain it . Sadly I don't .

In order to have a profitable business with actual economical income , you need outside income . But BTS by design can only accept inside shares as income . It's the exact meaning of "inner-circulation" . People can only pay the system by the speculative value of BTS , not by real outside money like fiat/btc . And BTS holders can not get dividend from actual outside value .

Hmm....I think I may lost you here .

If I build a machine that provides a service that people find useful,
and people pay "real" money to buy tickets to use that machine,
then that machine is a valid business. 

The fact that people speculate on the future value of those tickets is a completely orthogonal proposition.

[tonyk]

Regardless of his vote - alt is the most productive and beneficial thing that is happening to  BTS!!!!

You are mixing short term and long term benefits. It doesn't help much if alt is doing something that creates short term benefits for Bitshares right now if he is at the same time trying to hamper the development of Bitshares and prevent it becoming a succesful DAC.

"Trying to hamper" in your minds only, people. Read my previous post... he is not hampering ANYTHING as of now... but this does not prevent you all from crying wolf.

[Samupaha]

Regardless of his vote - alt is the most productive and beneficial thing that is happening to  BTS!!!!

You are mixing short term and long term benefits. It doesn't help much if alt is doing something that creates short term benefits for Bitshares right now if he is at the same time trying to hamper the development of Bitshares and prevent it becoming a succesful DAC.

[freedom]

Second, and most importantly his vote does not preclude workers being voted in  does it? I believe he will stop voting no to ALL worker then and there when it does . Until then it is just a way to show his believe in conservative spending.
You on the other hand make a big deal out of it, like it has prevented any development already! Take it for what it is - making a point and pointing that we (collectively as BTS holders) are generally on the side of useless spending... spending for the sake of spending more often than not.

I'm not. I'm just asking, what do anti dilution people expect. It's a simple question. That's all I want to know. I'm not defending worker proposals just because. If they aren't needed I don't support them, that's it. I also think we should be conservative, but come up with something worthy and take action.

Because the  dilution does not meet expectations.
If the bitshares is a company has closed down.But the workers still have to pay, do you think the company still needs the workers?

[btswildpig]

To sustain BTS's marketcap , investors are always more important than users . Especially "speculators" . So-called Long term investors only provide liquidity once .

So basically you think that BTS is just another pump'n'dump coin and not a share of a DAC?

BTS is shares . Shares are pump and dumps according to basic and simple economical common sense .

Every shares in the world is about predicting its potential/future and speculative on it short term/long term beyond or below their actual value.

BTS has no product . Even the basic product is built on top of shares . Hence another speculative design .

If I have the time , I could write a thesis to explain it . Sadly I don't .

In order to have a profitable business with actual economical income , you need outside income . But BTS by design can only accept inside shares as income . It's the exact meaning of "inner-circulation" . People can only pay the system by the speculative value of BTS , not by real outside money like fiat/btc . And BTS holders can not get dividend from actual outside value .

Hmm....I think I may lost you here .

[chryspano]

What about the 12% inflation from the merger? in 8 months it ends, don't you think that this is more than enought for the price? It's much more that a "halving" in btc terms. From 18% inflation we drop to 6% this not enought? we need to kill EVERY worker right now?

[Akado]

Second, and most importantly his vote does not preclude workers being voted in  does it? I believe he will stop voting no to ALL worker then and there when it does . Until then it is just a way to show his believe in conservative spending.
You on the other hand make a big deal out of it, like it has prevented any development already! Take it for what it is - making a point and pointing that we (collectively as BTS holders) are generally on the side of useless spending... spending for the sake of spending more often than not.

I'm not. I'm just asking, what do anti dilution people expect. It's a simple question. That's all I want to know. I'm not defending worker proposals just because. If they aren't needed I don't support them, that's it. I also think we should be conservative, but come up with something worthy and take action.

[Samupaha]

To sustain BTS's marketcap , investors are always more important than users . Especially "speculators" . So-called Long term investors only provide liquidity once .

So basically you think that BTS is just another pump'n'dump coin and not a share of a DAC?

[btswildpig]

People buy virtual currency because bitcoin is a deflation currency, it gives rise to expectations. If the bitshares continue to dilute, it is expected to depreciate, people will be far away from the bitshares. Everything we do is for more people to participate in, a project that is not involved in the project is a failure.


I support alt

Bitcoin is NOT deflationary, they are creating 3600 btc every day to pay miners and electric power companies.

Exactly, Bitcoin has dilution but has an incentive structure mask it. Why can't the anti-dilutue ppl see this. The dilution is not that important, it's how those funds are being used which is the most important. I can understand if you don't support a particular worker, but not to support anything just doesn't make sense.

Bitcoin dilution was paid to people with money to support the industry .
BTS dilution is paid to people with no money but the need the sell .
I even know bitcoin miners brought more bitcoin with their profit when Bitcoin price is low or going up . BTS delegate/worker ever done that ?

I fail to see you can compare the two . Mining created a barrier so that Bitcoin only falls into those people with the power to support it .

[Pheonike]

People buy virtual currency because bitcoin is a deflation currency, it gives rise to expectations. If the bitshares continue to dilute, it is expected to depreciate, people will be far away from the bitshares. Everything we do is for more people to participate in, a project that is not involved in the project is a failure.


I support alt

Bitcoin is NOT deflationary, they are creating 3600 btc every day to pay miners and electric power companies.

Exactly, Bitcoin has dilution but has an incentive structure mask it. Why can't the anti-dilutue ppl see this. The dilution is not that important, it's how those funds are being used which is the most important. I can understand if you don't support a particular worker, but not to support anything just doesn't make sense.

[gamey]

It would be nice to see someone address the original post.  It asked a very good question. 

What do these anti-dilution people expect to happen?

The current state of BTS is much better than the old BTS1.0 which BM thought that was enough to do the "big thing" and get "millions of users outside of crypto" .
If you think this is not enough , then why on earth would we believed the "big thing" in the first place ?

This doesn't make sense to me.  So because I believed in / hoped / followed (however you wish to label it) BitShares previously, and Dan was wrong...  as we all were about various things..   ?  Then what?  What is the end?

I don't have much of a stake in BitShares so I do not argue these things very much.  Not my thing.  I am just trying to understand the thoughts of others.

Do people think BM is sitting on such a pile of BTS that it should be enough incentive for his lifetime project ?

Passionate team of volunteers would be great.. but if that isn't happening.. then what?

I will say that one thing about paid workers is that it makes those wishing to work for free less appreciated etc.  So it is possible it forms a negative incentive in some way.

[chryspano]

People buy virtual currency because bitcoin is a deflation currency, it gives rise to expectations. If the bitshares continue to dilute, it is expected to depreciate, people will be far away from the bitshares. Everything we do is for more people to participate in, a project that is not involved in the project is a failure.


I support alt

Bitcoin is NOT deflationary, they are creating 3600 btc every day to pay miners and electric power companies.