Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson

[coolspeed]

May this photo go long in history.

[boshen1011]

Hello,
    I was just doing some research before making any investment decisions in Bitshares and/or related projects. From this thread it appears that there is some bad blood between Invictus Innovations ex-CEO Charles Hoskinson and current CEO Stan Larimer:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.60

Unfortunately this reflects badly on *both* the related projects:
   - Invictus Innovations, Inc
   - Next Cryptography Inc and the upcoming Ethereum project: http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html

Sadly it makes it slightly harder to make any investment decisions, so I am looking for some clarifications from anyone with some insight into the matter. It would be a big help to anyone looking to invest in any of these projects, confidence wise - much appreciated.

Some related thoughts/questions:

As the original Bitshares white paper was co-authored by both Stan and Charles , so Ethereum Vs Bitshares are competing products and both born from the same Bitshares white paper - thoughts?
   "Ethereum and some other projects I'm working on are going to completely replace the need for keyhotee and bitshares"
   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.msg4285810#msg4285810

There is also this message from one "ravenshore" that suggests a link still exists between Bitshares and Ethereum(?):

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1566.msg17938#msg17938
"Very large design team from the Bitshares, colored coin, and mastercoin communities also some major innovations with the wallet client."
nextcoin

Some references:

Charles Hoskinson:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/charles-hoskinson/29/983/662
"Past: Acting Chief Executive Officer at Invictus Innovations Incorporated"
"Current: Chief Executive Officer at Next Cryptography Inc." : Any relashionship to NXT http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-coin/what-nxt#  ?
Profile on bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102392
Ethereum : http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html

Stan Larimer
These forums :-) https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=611

Bitshares Investor:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/lixiaolai

My name is Bo Shen, executive director and CEO Asia of 3i.

We have no bad blood with Charles on our side.

Regarding to the resignation of Mr.Charles Hoskinson, I would like to make a clarification:

The board of directors and investors unanimously agreed for his resignation.

Invictus and Ethereum.

From left :  Charles Hoskinson, Vitalik Buterin, Stan Larimer, Bo Shen

[td services]

I'd be interested in hearing of any other projects along these lines (except NXT - NOT interested).

Why against NXT but not MSC? (just curious)

NXT slammed the door in my face when I went to go invest in it during the presale, leaving me with a very strong personal bias against it. Someone else who sent in a Bitcoin while I was waiting for an answer if we were still able to invest was allowed in. From https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.480 :

from: Kyune

Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin
November 18, 2013, 12:19:24 AM
   

from: Come-from-Beyond on November 17, 2013, 11:51:27 PM

from: Come-from-Beyond on November 17, 2013, 10:53:05 PM

from: td services on November 17, 2013, 10:51:09 PM
Can we still join in between now and January 3? I haven't really seen any clear definition of a deadline.

I'm waiting for the answer. BCNext reads this thread.

Some changes in the plan:

1. Fundraising is over. That last 1 BTC, sent after the 2nd marking transaction, will be accepted but no more deposits should be made.
2. Nxt will be launched earlier than on the 3rd of January, right after the final test.
3. New Nxt users r supposed to be attracted by selling NXT and distributing via Nxt Faucet.
4. Messaging feature will be released later to avoid situation when somebody attempts to bloat the blockchain making it too huge for newcomers.

BTW we need one more bootstrapping server, coz 2 servers is not enough.

So, if I understand this correctly:

1) the main dev (BCNext) no longer posts directly to this thread but you purport to communicate with him and speak for him about the project, something we can't confirm,
2) the deadline for contributing BTC to acquire Nxt, which was originally described as being open until the genesis block was approved by the community sometimes at least a month from now, is now suddenly declared over with no advance warning; and
3) the BTC that were already sent to acquire Nxt, which the main dev (BCNext) promised earlier in this thread not to touch until the genesis block was generated, have now been moved.

Mastercoin, on the other hand, ran its funding round to the full length as promised. They have also been very transparent about their operations, established a set of directors to oversee funds, and have been a professionally run project. I'm very happy with the Mastercoin project, as I am with Invictus.
   

[santaclause102]

It might be innovative (with some technical points and with regard to attracting a lot of developers to the project) from which I3 can learn and improve on! But the given economic model is not likely to give great ROI. See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=412878.140 (page 8, my and other's comments)

[sumantso]

I'd be interested in hearing of any other projects along these lines (except NXT - NOT interested).

Why against NXT but not MSC? (just curious)

Diversifying is a good strategy. So far I have only PTS and AGS. But I am thinking of taking some of the BTC earmarked for AGS and invest in Counterparty.

[td services]

I'm diversifying into all of the next gen crypto asset projects which look promising with evidence of a solid team, adequate funding, and evidence of progress on the underlying technology. So far this list includes Mastercoin, Invictus, eMunie, and Ethereum.

MC2, colored coins, and Open Transactions are also very promising, but not directly invest-able.  Monetas, an extension of Open Transactions into mobile, is seeking investment.

XCP looks interesting with a client in alpha, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around proof of burn of BTC to determine distribution of the premine - seems wasteful of funds which could go to development. Over 800 BTC has been burned already (over $600,000).

I'd be interested in hearing of any other projects along these lines (except NXT - NOT interested).

[que23]

I'm not sure why 'bad blood' would make it hard to make investment decisions. This seems nonsensical to me. And what about Vitalik Buterin? Do you think the 'bad blood' will cause him to do something to wreck his own project? If you're going to make investments in technology, you really need to hire someone who can look at the ideas and code and tell you what looks promising. 

[voldemort628]

interesting I was always wondering why Charles left but couldnt find any info on the matter.

on the side note, i believe we should speed up the development of bitshare to get the product ,of course in a good state, to the market asap, because we have more and more competitors, in one niche market or another...

[smiley35]

Aren't we the investors? I know I've sunk a good portion of my bitcoins into this project. Not that I was qualified or interested in being a part of that decision, just trying to figure out what you mean by investors.

I believe this refers to the investors that initially invested in Invictus, the company. This happened before Protoshares even existed.

Gotcha

[super3]

Aren't we the investors? I know I've sunk a good portion of my bitcoins into this project. Not that I was qualified or interested in being a part of that decision, just trying to figure out what you mean by investors.

I believe this refers to the investors that initially invested in Invictus, the company. This happened before Protoshares even existed.

[bytemaster]

This was prior to pts and ags


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[smiley35]

My name is Bo Shen, executive director and CEO Asia of 3i.

We have no bad blood with Charles on our side.

Regarding to the resignation of Mr.Charles Hoskinson, I would like to make a clarification:

The board of directors and investors unanimously agreed to ask for his resignation based on incompatibility with our company’s values and integrity.
[/quote]

Aren't we the investors? I know I've sunk a good portion of my bitcoins into this project. Not that I was qualified or interested in being a part of that decision, just trying to figure out what you mean by investors.

[super3]

Was reading through, and this caught my eye:
"0.25X ether will be given to the founders."

So pre-mined? Yeah, Ethereum is going to have a bad time...

[boshen1011]

Hello,
    I was just doing some research before making any investment decisions in Bitshares and/or related projects. From this thread it appears that there is some bad blood between Invictus Innovations ex-CEO Charles Hoskinson and current CEO Stan Larimer:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.60

Unfortunately this reflects badly on *both* the related projects:
   - Invictus Innovations, Inc
   - Next Cryptography Inc and the upcoming Ethereum project: http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html

Sadly it makes it slightly harder to make any investment decisions, so I am looking for some clarifications from anyone with some insight into the matter. It would be a big help to anyone looking to invest in any of these projects, confidence wise - much appreciated.

Some related thoughts/questions:

As the original Bitshares white paper was co-authored by both Stan and Charles , so Ethereum Vs Bitshares are competing products and both born from the same Bitshares white paper - thoughts?
   "Ethereum and some other projects I'm working on are going to completely replace the need for keyhotee and bitshares"
   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.msg4285810#msg4285810

There is also this message from one "ravenshore" that suggests a link still exists between Bitshares and Ethereum(?):

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1566.msg17938#msg17938
"Very large design team from the Bitshares, colored coin, and mastercoin communities also some major innovations with the wallet client."
nextcoin

Some references:

Charles Hoskinson:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/charles-hoskinson/29/983/662
"Past: Acting Chief Executive Officer at Invictus Innovations Incorporated"
"Current: Chief Executive Officer at Next Cryptography Inc." : Any relashionship to NXT http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-coin/what-nxt#  ?
Profile on bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102392
Ethereum : http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html

Stan Larimer
These forums :-) https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=611

Bitshares Investor:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/lixiaolai

My name is Bo Shen, executive director and CEO Asia of 3i.

We have no bad blood with Charles on our side.

Regarding to the resignation of Mr.Charles Hoskinson, I would like to make a clarification:

The board of directors and investors unanimously agreed for his resignation.

[smiley35]

On the bitcointalk post charles alludes to making keyhotee/bitshares irrelevant. Can anyone shed some light on what he is talking about in a non biases way?