Author Topic: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?  (Read 1913 times)

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Offline stickhead

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Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« on: January 09, 2014, 06:34:30 pm »
Question i came up with when looking at the daily PTS AGS auction.

Will this Angel PTS also be available for the BTS conversion or will only the PTS excluded from the Angeladdress be able to get their BTS share?

Looks like if the same ratio goes on till the end of the auction 1/3 of total PTS willbe in hands of Invictus again. This is ofcourse not a problem but it will be a double topping because this auction PTS can be used to get BTS also which makes it a double income for Invictus. This gives me mixed feelings....

What you guys think of what should be done?
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Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 06:46:50 pm »
All the PTS will be available for BTS distribution, including the angeladdress PTS. But 3I will use all these PTS to support the development of DAC, for example by the bounty...That means all the angel  PTS will go to common users' wallet, so we don't need to worry about this.
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Offline Shentist

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 06:57:22 pm »
Quote
Question i came up with when looking at the daily PTS AGS auction.

Will this Angel PTS also be available for the BTS conversion or will only the PTS excluded from the Angeladdress be able to get their BTS share?

Looks like if the same ratio goes on till the end of the auction 1/3 of total PTS willbe in hands of Invictus again. This is ofcourse not a problem but it will be a double topping because this auction PTS can be used to get BTS also which makes it a double income for Invictus. This gives me mixed feelings....

What you guys think of what should be done?

when the day comes for the first BTS chain and 200 Days are over. With this ratio the PTS address "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" holds 500k PTS. So 500k BTS will be rewarded to this address, if you see it this way it will be a double spending, because the public key of "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" is in the hands of invictus. This is much better then more value will be in hands of Invictus to push harder and faster.

Offline toast

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 07:24:02 pm »
Quote
Question i came up with when looking at the daily PTS AGS auction.

Will this Angel PTS also be available for the BTS conversion or will only the PTS excluded from the Angeladdress be able to get their BTS share?

Looks like if the same ratio goes on till the end of the auction 1/3 of total PTS willbe in hands of Invictus again. This is ofcourse not a problem but it will be a double topping because this auction PTS can be used to get BTS also which makes it a double income for Invictus. This gives me mixed feelings....

What you guys think of what should be done?

when the day comes for the first BTS chain and 200 Days are over. With this ratio the PTS address "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" holds 500k PTS. So 500k BTS will be rewarded to this address, if you see it this way it will be a double spending, because the public key of "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" is in the hands of invictus. This is much better then more value will be in hands of Invictus to push harder and faster.

I'd assume those bitshares will be set aside for ecosystem development in the same way those protoshares are currently set aside for ecosystem development.
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Offline oco101

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 07:31:09 pm »
Quote
Question i came up with when looking at the daily PTS AGS auction.

Will this Angel PTS also be available for the BTS conversion or will only the PTS excluded from the Angeladdress be able to get their BTS share?

Looks like if the same ratio goes on till the end of the auction 1/3 of total PTS willbe in hands of Invictus again. This is ofcourse not a problem but it will be a double topping because this auction PTS can be used to get BTS also which makes it a double income for Invictus. This gives me mixed feelings....

What you guys think of what should be done?

when the day comes for the first BTS chain and 200 Days are over. With this ratio the PTS address "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" holds 500k PTS. So 500k BTS will be rewarded to this address, if you see it this way it will be a double spending, because the public key of "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" is in the hands of invictus. This is much better then more value will be in hands of Invictus to push harder and faster.

That is a good point I may be miss that  part but Invictus should make it very clear what they will do with all the bitshares when the forking will occur, unless by the time of the genesis block no protoshare will be on the PTS angel address.


Offline bytemaster

Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 07:46:27 pm »
We will be using the BitShares earned in the Angel Address to fund development of the ecosystem.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

sumantso

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 08:27:37 pm »
We will be using the BitShares earned in the Angel Address to fund development of the ecosystem.

Considering that PTS holders will probably get much less BTS per unit than AGS, it would be nice if there were some more incentive. Distributing BTS only among PTS out there would be a boost, but then having extra BTS in the hands of Invictus will be good too.

On that regard, I was wondering if it was possible to distribute BTS only among 'useful' PTS wallets. Cryptsy, for instance, has said they won't bother with converting their stash. Is there a way to not credit BTS to exchanges (yes, yes, I am a PTS holder and so trying to find ways to get more BTS per PTS).

Offline stickhead

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 08:39:13 pm »
We will be using the BitShares earned in the Angel Address to fund development of the ecosystem.

Considering that PTS holders will probably get much less BTS per unit than AGS, it would be nice if there were some more incentive. Distributing BTS only among PTS out there would be a boost, but then having extra BTS in the hands of Invictus will be good too.

On that regard, I was wondering if it was possible to distribute BTS only among 'useful' PTS wallets. Cryptsy, for instance, has said they won't bother with converting their stash. Is there a way to not credit BTS to exchanges (yes, yes, I am a PTS holder and so trying to find ways to get more BTS per PTS).

I think it willbe a good moment that when BTS willbe distributed AGS and PTS are in a 50/50 position with each other. Guess this willbe in ~4 months and will be inline with the release date of BTS. This would make everybody happy because things will be equal for all (but ofcourse this is upto Invictus how they fill this).

Don't forget that not all PTS is minted by that time, so expect a 1:1.3 distribution. Only thing i don't get is the low price of PTS atm. Looks like people forget that PTS is trade-able and AGS not.
~ silence is the virtue of fools ~

sumantso

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 08:51:16 pm »
I think it willbe a good moment that when BTS willbe distributed AGS and PTS are in a 50/50 position with each other. Guess this willbe in ~4 months and will be inline with the release date of BTS. This would make everybody happy because things will be equal for all (but ofcourse this is upto Invictus how they fill this).

I think its 5 months, but I hope BTS will release much earlier than that as then everyone's a winner. I personally can't wait to get some Bitshares right now :)

Don't forget that not all PTS is minted by that time, so expect a 1:1.3 distribution. Only thing i don't get is the low price of PTS atm. Looks like people forget that PTS is trade-able and AGS not.

The trade value is only there due to its usefulness in getting shares. If the market decides that its much better holding AGS than PTS then that value plummets. Look at the PTS donation for AGS. Started at around 2.3k per day, yesterday it was 3k and today its already 3.7k.

The main advantage with PTS as far as I can see is if 3rd party DACs which do not use Invictus code turns out to be any good.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 08:54:58 pm by sumantso »

Offline stickhead

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 09:23:26 pm »
The trade value is only there due to its usefulness in getting shares. If the market decides that its much better holding AGS than PTS then that value plummets. Look at the PTS donation for AGS. Started at around 2.3k per day, yesterday it was 3k and today its already 3.7k.

The main advantage with PTS as far as I can see is if 3rd party DACs which do not use Invictus code turns out to be any good.

I don't know if i see this wrong but to me this means that in a few months PTS willbe a scarce crypto which will drive the price higher then it was before because PTS is still backed by future DACS!? Only thing i hope that 3rd party DACS would be more fair then the pre-mined feeling of MMC2.0. This hurts the system more in the long run because of unfair advantages (which are not Invictus faults!!)
~ silence is the virtue of fools ~

Offline Stan

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2014, 09:29:45 pm »
We will be using the BitShares earned in the Angel Address to fund development of the ecosystem.

Considering that PTS holders will probably get much less BTS per unit than AGS, it would be nice if there were some more incentive. Distributing BTS only among PTS out there would be a boost, but then having extra BTS in the hands of Invictus will be good too.

On that regard, I was wondering if it was possible to distribute BTS only among 'useful' PTS wallets. Cryptsy, for instance, has said they won't bother with converting their stash. Is there a way to not credit BTS to exchanges (yes, yes, I am a PTS holder and so trying to find ways to get more BTS per PTS).

I think it willbe a good moment that when BTS willbe distributed AGS and PTS are in a 50/50 position with each other. Guess this willbe in ~4 months and will be inline with the release date of BTS. This would make everybody happy because things will be equal for all (but ofcourse this is upto Invictus how they fill this).

Don't forget that not all PTS is minted by that time, so expect a 1:1.3 distribution. Only thing i don't get is the low price of PTS atm. Looks like people forget that PTS is trade-able and AGS not.

Every day the fixed supply of AGS available before BTS launch date will dwindle by 10,000 shares.
By comparison, the opportunity to obtain PTS will be virtually unlimited for last minute shoppers.
But they will have to pay the price because PTS holders won't be much interested in selling at that time.

Every day public awareness of what is about to occur will increase.
Every day the risk of that happening goes down as we publish our nightly progress reports.

So there will be more competition for a dwindling supply of AGS swinging the pendulum back to PTS.

After each DAC is released, there will be DACshareholders wanting to trade back into PTS for the next DAC.
And there will be outsiders wanting to grab DACshares before they escalate.

This should produce some interesting opportunities for those who get PTS now while they are cheep.
Those that look ahead over the next few months have all kinds of predictable opportunities.
Those who focus on some single transient trend... not so much.

 8)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline stickhead

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2014, 09:38:55 pm »
We will be using the BitShares earned in the Angel Address to fund development of the ecosystem.

Considering that PTS holders will probably get much less BTS per unit than AGS, it would be nice if there were some more incentive. Distributing BTS only among PTS out there would be a boost, but then having extra BTS in the hands of Invictus will be good too.

On that regard, I was wondering if it was possible to distribute BTS only among 'useful' PTS wallets. Cryptsy, for instance, has said they won't bother with converting their stash. Is there a way to not credit BTS to exchanges (yes, yes, I am a PTS holder and so trying to find ways to get more BTS per PTS).

I think it willbe a good moment that when BTS willbe distributed AGS and PTS are in a 50/50 position with each other. Guess this willbe in ~4 months and will be inline with the release date of BTS. This would make everybody happy because things will be equal for all (but ofcourse this is upto Invictus how they fill this).

Don't forget that not all PTS is minted by that time, so expect a 1:1.3 distribution. Only thing i don't get is the low price of PTS atm. Looks like people forget that PTS is trade-able and AGS not.

Every day the fixed supply of AGS available before BTS launch date will dwindle by 10,000 shares.
By comparison, the opportunity to obtain PTS will be virtually unlimited for last minute shoppers.
But they will have to pay the price because PTS holders won't be much interested in selling at that time.

Every day public awareness of what is about to occur will increase.
Every day the risk of that happening goes down as we publish our nightly progress reports.

So there will be more competition for a dwindling supply of AGS swinging the pendulum back to PTS.

After each DAC is released, there will be DACshareholders wanting to trade back into PTS for the next DAC.
And there will be outsiders wanting to grab DACshares before they escalate.

This should produce some interesting opportunities for those who get PTS now while they are cheep.
Those that look ahead over the next few months have all kinds of predictable opportunities.
Those who focus on some single transient trend... not so much.

 8)

exactly!! guess this is why my feeling says i should stack more PTS now when its cheap :)
~ silence is the virtue of fools ~

sumantso

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 09:55:37 pm »
exactly!! guess this is why my feeling says i should stack more PTS now when its cheap :)

Why stack PTS and not AGS though?

If you have a limited BTC for investment right now it makes sense to get AGS. I used up my BTC for getting AGS and over the next few days will be converting PTS to AGS if the ratio is not too bad.

Offline stickhead

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 09:57:52 pm »
exactly!! guess this is why my feeling says i should stack more PTS now when its cheap :)

Why stack PTS and not AGS though?

If you have a limited BTC for investment right now it makes sense to get AGS. I used up my BTC for getting AGS and over the next few days will be converting PTS to AGS if the ratio is not too bad.

Because this PTS can be converted back to BTC and AGS not? I dont really care about the ratio, i care about the fact that i dont burn BTC/PTS by sending this to the Angel address..
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 09:59:41 pm by stickhead »
~ silence is the virtue of fools ~

sumantso

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 10:02:42 pm »
exactly!! guess this is why my feeling says i should stack more PTS now when its cheap :)

Why stack PTS and not AGS though?

If you have a limited BTC for investment right now it makes sense to get AGS. I used up my BTC for getting AGS and over the next few days will be converting PTS to AGS if the ratio is not too bad.

Because this PTS can be converted back to BTC and AGS not? I dont really care about the ratio, i care about the fact that i dont burn BTC/PTS by sending this to the Angel address..

Bitshares and all those that will follow can be converted to BTC too if you wish. Makes sense to to try and grab more of those.

Offline stickhead

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 10:10:47 pm »
exactly!! guess this is why my feeling says i should stack more PTS now when its cheap :)

Why stack PTS and not AGS though?

If you have a limited BTC for investment right now it makes sense to get AGS. I used up my BTC for getting AGS and over the next few days will be converting PTS to AGS if the ratio is not too bad.

Because this PTS can be converted back to BTC and AGS not? I dont really care about the ratio, i care about the fact that i dont burn BTC/PTS by sending this to the Angel address..

Bitshares and all those that will follow can be converted to BTC too if you wish. Makes sense to to try and grab more of those.

As long as i have my PTS stack i will also get these DACS ofcourse + 3rd party DACS that dont get honoured with AGS (if i understand correctly). For me a trade-able item has always more value then something that cant be moved. Anyway i think we go to off topic here :) Maybe i convert some PTS to AGS when to steady daily flow dries up.. Still plenty of room to see where it goes in the next weeks/months
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Offline Bitcoinfan

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2014, 01:30:54 am »
We will be using the BitShares earned in the Angel Address to fund development of the ecosystem.

Wait...   There isn't a shareholder percentage change?

The number of PTS available is decreasing each day.  Say by the end of the 200 days the number of PTS available is 1 Million.  These 1 million PTS have dibs on all 2 million BTS?  Or they only have dibs on 1 million BTS, and Invictus has rights to the other 1 million?  I guess the latter makes the more sense.

 

Offline Stan

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2014, 02:19:24 am »
We will be using the BitShares earned in the Angel Address to fund development of the ecosystem.

Wait...   There isn't a shareholder percentage change?

The number of PTS available is decreasing each day.  Say by the end of the 200 days the number of PTS available is 1 Million.  These 1 million PTS have dibs on all 2 million BTS?  Or they only have dibs on 1 million BTS, and Invictus has rights to the other 1 million?  I guess the latter makes the more sense.

 

No, at any time we release a DAC, the number of PTS and AGS in existence at that time scale to ALL of the promised percentage for each. In your example, at day 100, the 1 million AGS in existence scale proportionally to the 2 million BTS shares promised to AGS holders for BitShares BEX.  Same for PTS holder based on how many have been mined by then.

The question bytemaster was answering is who gets the BTS for all the as-yet unspent PTS donated for AGS?  The answer is they go back into the same kitty to fund infrastructure development and promote the industry.  NOT to Invictus.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

bitbro

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Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2014, 02:42:03 am »
You guys have a lot of money now.  As a shareholder of BitShares PTS and AGS, I ask that you take on more full-time developers. 


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Offline bytemaster

Re: Angeladdress PTS rewarded with BTS?
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2014, 06:10:57 am »
You guys have a lot of money now.  As a shareholder of BitShares PTS and AGS, I ask that you take on more full-time developers. 


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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.